Understanding and dealing with bounces

Status
Not open for further replies.
NoahFL

NoahFL

Member Since 2020
Good morning. I’m trying to understand bounces and why they happen. Max had a great couple days to where I felt comfortable increasing his dose to 2.75. Last night PMPS he was at 77. Great, no shot, but this morning he was high (486) so I know this is a bounce due to the lower for him BG last night and he didn’t get insulin. I did increase to 2.75 this morning since his nadir the last 2 days was high.

What can cause a low (normal for a non-sugar cat) PMPS? Is a bounce the liver producing insulin due to the low normal for him?

Thanks! This is all so confusing. As noted I’m using an AT meter.

a little history on Max: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/below-200-190-after-holding-for-30.231545/
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
Hi Noah have you been to the prozinc board? theres a sticky there that addresses this very issue Its in the general info sticky at the top of the page on the Prozinc forum.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...mation-and-important-linksplease-read.224794/

scroll down some and read "BOUNCE"

Best wishes and good luck! ;)
j.
Click to expand...

I am in the ProZinc forum. I know I’ve read it before, but I’ll read it again and try to understand it better now that it’s been a couple weeks. So much to digest in such a short amount of time.
 
NoahFL said:
I am in the ProZinc forum. I know I’ve read it before, but I’ll read it again and try to understand it better now that it’s been a couple weeks. So much to digest in such a short amount of time.
Click to expand...

Oh I know! I dont know if I could retain all the info in that ONE sticky much less the thread. ! Theres other explainations in some of the recent threads If I can find them I will post them for you .;)
 
I'm going with my memory so...I think any reading under 75(?) is considered too low 90 BEING being the optimum.
Hold on for more replies, as my memory kinda sucks theses days ok?
j
 
When the blood glucose drops too low or too fast (or both) this can trigger a 'bounce' up in blood glucose levels. "Too low" doesn't have to be dangerously low, it may just be significantly lower than the kitty's body has lately become accustomed to. When the cat's blood glucose is high for a while the body can come to perceive high numbers as the 'new normal', so even dropping into nice healthy numbers can trigger a bounce.
When a bounce is triggered, the body releases stored glycogen to raise the blood glucose level (mostly from the liver). It can also release counter-regulatory hormones that cause temporary insulin resistance. It's a protection mechanism. And the effect can last anything from a single insulin cycle to a few days. When the effect of the hormones wears off, the body becomes responsive to insulin again...

Bounces can be complicated things in that sometimes it is not only the initial dropping too low or too fast that can cause a bounce. When the effects of the bounce wears off, and the body becomes responsive to insulin again, the blood glucose can sometimes drop faster and further than it otherwise might on that dose of insulin. 'Bounce-clearing' cycles can be quite strong in their effect sometimes, and this in itself can trigger another bounce. This doesn't always happen, but it 'can' happen.

NoahFL said:
What can cause a low (normal for a non-sugar cat) PMPS? Is a bounce the liver producing insulin due to the low normal for him?
Click to expand...
If you're seeing a low number at the end/beginning of a cycle with Prozinc, then there are a few things that can cause that. It may be that the dose is too high and is extending the cycle (later nadir, longer duration). It may be that your kitty's blood glucose dropped even lower than that earlier on and is now rising (again, because the dose is too high). It may be that your kitty's pancreas is producing some insulin of its own and is able to hold the numbers down for a while. It may be a complete anomaly - sometimes cats just throw us a low number and we never know why... And there are probably other reasons that I've not thought of at the moment...
If you start to see a pattern of numbers that are too low to shoot, then that means that a dose reduction is in order.

Eliz
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
When the blood glucose drops too low or too fast (or both) this can trigger a 'bounce' up in blood glucose levels. "Too low" doesn't have to be dangerously low, it may just be significantly lower than the kitty's body has lately become accustomed to. When the cat's blood glucose is high for a while the body can come to perceive high numbers as the 'new normal', so even dropping into nice healthy numbers can trigger a bounce.
When a bounce is triggered, the body releases stored glycogen to raise the blood glucose level (mostly from the liver). It can also release counter-regulatory hormones that cause temporary insulin resistance. It's a protection mechanism. And the effect can last anything from a single insulin cycle to a few days. When the effect of the hormones wears off, the body becomes responsive to insulin again...

Bounces can be complicated things in that sometimes it is not only the initial dropping too low or too fast that can cause a bounce. When the effects of the bounce wears off, and the body becomes responsive to insulin again, the blood glucose can sometimes drop faster and further than it otherwise might on that dose of insulin. 'Bounce-clearing' cycles can be quite strong in their effect sometimes, and this in itself can trigger another bounce. This doesn't always happen, but it 'can' happen.


If you're seeing a low number at the end/beginning of a cycle with Prozinc, then there are a few things that can cause that. It may be that the dose is too high and is extending the cycle (later nadir, longer duration). It may be that your kitty's blood glucose dropped even lower than that earlier on and is now rising (again, because the dose is too high). It may be that your kitty's pancreas is producing some insulin of its own and is able to hold the numbers down for a while. It may be a complete anomaly - sometimes cats just throw us a low number and we never know why... And there are probably other reasons that I've not thought of at the moment...
If you start to see a pattern of numbers that are too low to shoot, then that means that a dose reduction is in order.

Eliz
Click to expand...

Thank you so much!! I’ll be putting this with my notes. I’m still trying to find a pattern with Max, and every time I feel like I’m seeing a pattern he decides to go low.
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
THANK YOU Eliz ! :D
Click to expand...
Actually, Jeanne, I would really like to take this opportunity to thank YOU. ...I was just thinking earlier that you are always so very kind and welcoming to people. You are 'always there', steadfast and true, with a consistently gentle voice and reassuring tone. This is so very important on this forum. Seeing your posts never fails to warm my heart. I am so grateful to you. So, thank you for being you. :bighug:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top