Uncontrolled Diabetic - start dieting?

[Misterbeesmom]

I got the ok to ask as many questions as i need to, so let the floodgates open! LOL

mr biddles is overweight, yes. He's 14 lbs. His diabetes since being diagnosed 6 months ago is still under poor control. He lost a couple pounds due to this (wass 16 lbs pre-dx). My vet wants me to cut back on his food a bit to help him lose more weight. But see here's the thing: i feel his body is already being deprived of nutrients in this state, and if i cut back on his intake its even less nutrients. We're on low carb high protein (was on purina d/m for about a week. Switched to ziwipeak yesterday and he LOVES it. Ate 2 cans)

Shouldnt i wait until we get at least better control of the diabetes before cutting back on calories?

Thanks.

 

[Critter Mom]

I got the ok to ask as many questions as i need to, so let the floodgates open! LOL

Woot!

We're ready for ya!




Mogs
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[MrWorfMen's Mom]

Glad to see you are putting that "permission" to good use!

I think your question is somewhat of a dual edged sword. While getting kitty to slim down a bit will make getting to and maintaining regulation easier, it is indeed difficult to refuse food to a cat that is "screaming" at you, waking you up at night or tripping you up in the kitchen constantly looking for more food.
There may be those who disagree with me but in my opinion, trying to reduce food intake in the early days before the cat is starting to get regulated needs to be handled carefully and on a individual basis.

Suddenly changing a cat's routine, food type and/food quanitities can be stressful for the cat and hunger itself increases stress. Stress elevates BG levels, so while I would certainly try to keep the cat from re-gaining any weight when further weight loss is desired, I would make any reduction in caloric intake gradually. Unregulated diabetics tend to lose weight anyway, so reducing calories too quickly in the early days could set the cat up for ketones and DKA and no one wants to deal with those issues.

IMHO, I'd wait until the cat's BG levels improve to acceptable levels before making any serious attempt at weight loss and then it should be done gradually.

 

[Misterbeesmom]

Glad to see you are putting that "permission" to good use!

I think your question is somewhat of a dual edged sword. While getting kitty to slim down a bit will make getting to and maintaining regulation easier, it is indeed difficult to refuse food to a cat that is "screaming" at you, waking you up at night or tripping you up in the kitchen constantly looking for more food.
There may be those who disagree with me but in my opinion, trying to reduce food intake in the early days before the cat is starting to get regulated needs to be handled carefully and on a individual basis.

Suddenly changing a cat's routine, food type and/food quanitities can be stressful for the cat and hunger itself increases stress. Stress elevates BG levels, so while I would certainly try to keep the cat from re-gaining any weight when further weight loss is desired, I would make any reduction in caloric intake gradually. Unregulated diabetics tend to lose weight anyway, so reducing calories too quickly in the early days could set the cat up for ketones and DKA and no one wants to deal with those issues.

IMHO, I'd wait until the cat's BG levels improve to acceptable levels before making any serious attempt at weight loss and then it should be done gradually.

Thats my train of thought as well. I understand why the vet wants me to head in that direction, but, I cant withhold food from my furbaby right now. The sense that he NEEDS the food is so strong. I'd rather get the BG under good control for a little while, then think about dieting.

 

[Critter Mom]

The sense that he NEEDS the food is so strong.

With the nutrient absorption issues that travel hand-in-hand with IBD and pancreatitis and the very insightful points mentioned by Linda above, I think you need to work with what Mr B's body is telling you about his nutrient requirements. If the cat is crazy hungry then I always take it as a sign that its body needs something from its diet (ETA; Or the body is having trouble utilising the nutrients being consumed).

Aside from appetite, another valuable barometer is coat condition: if it's not hectic then something is amiss.


Mogs
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[Elizabeth and Bertie]

We're on low carb high protein (was on purina d/m for about a week. Switched to ziwipeak yesterday and he LOVES it. Ate 2 cans)

Hiya Jen,
Do be sure to monitor your kitty's blood glucose closely if you've switched from a higher carb to a lower carb diet.

Switching to low carb can reduce the blood glucose dramatically, and the insulin dose may need to be lowered accordingly so as to avoid hypoglycemia.
Did you just switch to Ziwi Peak yesterday? (What was he eating before the Purina DM..?)
Are you testing before each shot?
Are you able to test during the insulin cycle?

Eliz

 

[Misterbeesmom]

Hiya Jen,
Do be sure to monitor your kitty's blood glucose closely now that you've switched from a high carb to a low carb diet.

Switching to low carb can reduce the blood glucose dramatically, and the insulin dose may need to be lowered accordingly so as to avoid hypoglycemia.
Did you just switch to Ziwi Peak yesterday? (What was he eating before the Purina DM..?)
Are you testing before each shot?
Are you able to test during the insulin cycle?

Eliz

Hi eliz!

I'd like to think the vet's instructions to change to the low carb food and increase his insulin is warranted. I do know how much the diet can affect BG and was worried at first about doing both, but the vet said ok. I hope i'm not an idiot. I'm trying to temper my impatience after 6 months of seeing mr b get sicker and sicker, without going overboard into hypoland.

Started ziwipeak yesterday.
Was on purina dm for 7 days prior.
I did not test since last wknd, no.
I am testing today for glucose curve, to be discussing with vet on tuesday. I will test tomorrow as well.

 

[Critter Mom]

If you could start testing before each Lantus dose and at least once mid-cycle test each day (even if it's only a 'before bed' test a lot of the time) and then record the test results in a spreadsheet it would be such a help to you in determining how the insulin dose is/isn't working for Mr B. I've found using a spreadsheet to track Saoirse's BG to be invaluable; both as a tool for working out insulin requirements, and as an absolute godsend in terms of how much peace of mind it gives me about her safety.


Mogs
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[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Jen, what was Mr Biddles eating before the Purina DM?

I'd like to think the vet's instructions to change to the low carb food and increase his insulin is warranted. I do know how much the diet can affect BG and was worried at first about doing both, but the vet said ok.

Yes, I can absolutely understand why you'd be worried about doing both at once, since either/both can reduce blood glucose...

I hope i'm not an idiot.

I'm sure you're not! You're someone who's trusting their vet to give good advice. That's a very reasonable expectation.
But we have had many folks here whose vets haven't exactly given them the best advice. And it can be very challenging when that happens, because we really DO want to be able to believe in what they tell us....

Well done for doing the curve. Are you going to post the results of your curve on the forum?

Eliz

 

[Misterbeesmom]

If you could start testing before each Lantus dose and at least once mid-cycle test each day (even if it's only a 'before bed' test a lot of the time) and then record the test results in a spreadsheet it would be such a help to you in determining how the insulin dose is/isn't working for Mr B. I've found using a spreadsheet to track Saoirse's BG to be invaluable; both as a tool for working out insulin requirements, and as an absolute godsend in terms of how much peace of mind it gives me about her safety.


Mogs
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Yes now you folks have really gotten me to think about this, plus, as i listed in the other forum, his 11 am BG today was 132, which is the first time i've seen him within a normal range. Depending on his later levels, i might lower his evening dose. I am keeping track of his readings in the booklet that came with the alphtrak. I'll get to the spreadsheet someday...

 

[Misterbeesmom]

Jen, what was Mr Biddles eating before the Purina DM?


Yes, I can absolutely understand why you'd be worried about doing both at once, since either/both can reduce blood glucose...


I'm sure you're not! You're someone who's trusting their vet to give good advice. That's a very reasonable expectation.
But we have had many folks here whose vets haven't exactly given them the best advice. And it can be very challenging when that happens, because we really DO want to be able to believe in what they tell us....

Well done for doing the curve. Are you going to post the results of your curve on the forum?

Eliz

Thanks! I plan to do spreadsheet i just havent had time to focus on getting that going.
Before purina dm he was eating various low carb foods like wellness, wild calling, natures variety instinct. All canned. We dropped dry food in november 2015 after dx.

 

[Critter Mom]

Hi Jen,

Just spotted this link about weight management on another thread and I thought it would be helpful to you.

http://www.allfelinehospital.com/getting-your-cat-to-lose-weight.pml

Also, there's good general information about feeding requirements and managing a cat's weight on the following catinfo.org page:

http://catinfo.org/?link=felineobesity

Here's a body condition chart to help you to assess Mr B's status:

http://research.unc.edu/files/2012/11/CCM3_032386.pdf

I manage Saoirse's weight by recording how much I feed her (including a calorie count) and weighing her regularly using a digital baby scales (reasonably priced ones on offer at Amazon and ebay). I also use the body condition chart to monitor how she's doing.


Mogs
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