Tue 8/13 TASHIE updates & photos KETONE FREE?

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BorisV

BorisV

Member Since 2013
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=102104

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New photos of Tashie today .....hummm........which food will she pick?

I'll try not to make this post TOO long but a lot of things to go over

What are ketones?

In diabetes, there is not enough insulin to help your muscles absorb glucose from the blood. And when your muscles are starved for energy they start to "burn" fat. This produces breakdown products called ketones. These are toxic acids. The accumulation of these acids in the body may lead to elevated levels of ketones (called ketosis).
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1. Tashie has been KETONE free since yesterday - there is a GREAT chance she can come home tomorrow afternoon. Three ketone tests have all been negative, they now just want to observe her for 24 more hours and start her Lantus again, as she has been on "R" insulin.
2. Spoke with the Internal Med doctor on duty today this morning on the phone (he will also be there tomorrow) and also met him when I went to visit Tashie today. He KNEW I was annoyed with the dry DM issue this morning and we talked about that. He feels that Tashie is not getting enough carbs & calories. And that she NEEDS these to combat the ketones. We may have to increase her insulin dose to compensate for the higher carbs.
3. He wants me to NOT let her go below, say 100. He feels that when she goes TOO low, it makes her bounce to hard. He is suggesting that I try to keep her "below the renal threshold" but not allow her to go "into the greens" Ideally, to try to keep her between, lets say, 100 -300. On the days that she tests lower at PS, give LESS insulin. He actually spent quite a bit of time studying my SS and commented on quite a few things.......now, that was surprising.
4. He feels that I can still offer the food I've been giving her but also have the DM down for "grazing"

****now, I am not saying I'm going to do this - I want to get some thoughts and opinions but I do have to note something - When she was on the DRY DM and the wet at the same time - when I brought her home in July and I was trying to wean her off the dry - her weight had gone up to 5 pounds, 6 ounces. Last Thursday, prior to all this happening, I took her for a blood work up and was dismayed to find that she was down to 5 pounds again.

5. MY THOUGHTS:
I want what is best for Nataschia. She is almost 15 1/2 - I do not have "forever" with her, I want the BEST quality of life possible for the time she has left. I don't want to have her hospitalized every 6 weeks and I don't have UNLIMITED funds to be able to do so. These 3 days will be close to $5000. I have to work to keep her comfortable, happy & ketone free. Her personality has been blossoming and I want to hold onto whatever I can.
There is a POSSIBILITY that she is also entering into the beginning stages on Kidney failure - I have to be diligent about this as well - Doctor today was not completely convinced but I want to be careful with her and do preventive medicine as well.
She WILL eat wet food! I have proven this! What if I TRY to find (maybe you guys can even help me) a HIGH CALORIE, MEDIUM CARB food that is LOWER in phosphorous (to help the kidneys) The DRY DM sort of scares me as that was my "secret" weapon to bring her up FAST if her numbers got too low. It's 18% carb! She flies to the moon if I just give her a teaspoon - it's "my" Karo for her. I'm thinking a 10-12% carb that has high calories? Is there one? Got to get busy and do my homework!

*** would you be willing to let me remain on the board doing a "different kind of tight regulation" ......meaning, not for dose reductions but to help me try to keep her "Tightly regulated" between 100 - 250 or so?

Just throwing all of this out for discussion. I know there are other members that have battles with ketones and I am curious to hear from you.

Thanks in Advance!
Tahie & Bern
 
Hi Bern, I am so glad she is ketone free! Today's picture looks so much better than yesterdays. Poor thing. I think she is parked in front of the dry food.LOL. I don't have any advice, but I hope you can get her somewhat regulated soon. I know she will be so glad to get back home to your biological son Boris!

I hope your day goes better!
 
What if I TRY to find (maybe you guys can even help me) a HIGH CALORIE, MEDIUM CARB food that is LOWER in phosphorous (to help the kidneys)
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So, my search criteria were carbs 10-14%, phos <250, cals >190

Avoderm Salmon - protein 35, fat 56, carb 10, phos 244, cals 198
Drs. Foster and Smith Turkey - protein 33, fat 57, carb 10, phos 250, cals 200
Holistic Select Duck & Chicken - protein 27, fat 61, carb 12, phos 216, cals 196
Holistic Select Turkey & Barley - protein 27, fat 61, carb 12, phos 210, cals 200
Iams Adult Pate Turkey & Giblets - protein 34, fat 54, carb 12, phos 230, cals 194
Natural Balance Limited Ingredient Diet Chicken & Green Pea - protein 31, fat 56, carb 13, phos 227, cals 220
Newman's Own Turkey/Vegetables/Brown Rice - protein 28, fat 61, carb 10, phos 201, cals 193
Nutro Natural Choice Mature Health Salmon & Tuna Entrée - protein 32, fat 56, carb 12, phos 213, cals 194
Precise Turkey - protein 31, fat 59, carb 10, phos 198, cals 196
Hill's Science Diet Kitten Liver and Chicken Entrée - protein 40, fat 47, carb 13, phos 220, cals 210
Hill's Science Diet Kitten Turkey & Giblets protein 39, fat 49, carb 12, phos 209, cals 205
Hill's Science Diet Salmon Entrée - protein 38, fat 50, carb 12, phos 206, cals 191
Triumph Chicken & Liver - protein 28, fat 62, carb 10, phos 191, cals 215
Triumph Beef - protein 27, fat, 63, carb 10, phos 186, cals 220

I could have missed some Bern, but these are the ones I was able to pick out from Dr. Lisa Pierson's food chart.
 
*** would you be willing to let me remain on the board doing a "different kind of tight regulation" ......meaning, not for dose reductions but to help me try to keep her "Tightly regulated" between 100 - 250 or so?
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Oh, Bern it makes me sad to see you even ask this question. Anyone and everyone can post here. Look how often I do. I've never even seen a pen or vial of Lantus.

As long as you are clear in what you are trying to do, and people here understand your goals or limits or whatever, of course you would be welcome to post here. I think feelings would be hurt if you chose not to stay here.

Following TR is NOT a requirement for posting here.
 
Deb! You are fab! I am going to do some research too .... but I thank you SO much for your time on this! You guys are REALLY great - you know! :-D :-D :-D
 
Carl! THANK YOU SO MUCH! I sort of needed that! Going forward, if (no, WHEN) I can get Tashie sorted out, I so so want to be able to help in some sort of way. I THOUGHT I'd have more time to be able to post on other condos as I quit a consulting job I was doing to take care of Tash 100% of the time ..... but she is sort of a "handful" (and I mean just a handful) right now but I am hoping to be able to "give back" as that IS my nature - under "normal" circumstances!
THANK YOU! Carl, I like the "dimension" you bring - I don't care if you've used Lantus or not, you REALLY do help with your comments! And, I KNOW you know just how hard some of these times can be. :cry:

xx
B
 
As the person who has been welcomed even though I didn't particularly do a good job following TR :? and as the person who's cat continually freaks people out with her abnormally low BG :lol: , I hope you stay! I can't offer advice on your issues but I do think if you can find a way to use MC to front load and steer Tashie's curves we'd all be cheering you on! :YMHUG:
 
You do not have to do TR.
Make a note in your signature link in a slightly larger font ( I edit large's 150 to 125)

Demo:
125 vs 150

Ps go to Control Panel to edit your signature)
 
ANN! Tash & I have REALLY REALLY been trying NOT to be drama Queens! REALLY! We have! It's just that this "stuff" keeps happening! PURRFECT EXAMPLE - look at my SS the day BEFORE I got back onto TR - then, look at the next day - Oy!

:roll: :roll: :roll:

B
 
Bern,

Here is an interesting old thread about using slightly higher carb foods: Low Carb vs. Lower Carb. There have definitely been cats that do well on a slightly higher carb diet, so if that's what Tashie needs, then there is no reason to feel badly about it.

Bottom line, Tashie has to eat, so if she isn't eating enough low carb wet, then I would try to find something that she will eat. If she needs more insulin, so be it. Remember that officially, we consider anything under 10% to be low carb. Some cats do better on the lower end of that, some cats do better at the higher end.

Interestingly, my cat KK is eating 12-14% carb wet food as his regular food. I started feeding that about a month ago, for a similar reason to you. He was losing too much weight, and then he stopped eating the low carb. I got some higher carb Fancy Feast Medleys (the Florentine flavors) and he loves them. Then I noticed that in some ways, his numbers are better on the medium carb than on the low carb! He doesn't dive as much, which means he doesn't bounce as much. Of course, the higher carbs also mean that he is getting a higher dose of insulin than he would be if he was eating low carb, so that extra insulin is probably helping hold the bounces down too.

The only real downside is that I absolutely have to be sure he eats. With him receiving a slightly higher insulin dose, if he ever does not eat normally then the dose would probably be too high. So far it hasn't been a problem because he loves the food, but I'm prepared to syringe feed if I have to.
 
OMG! What cute babies you have!!!!

Bern, if you decide you want to feed a lower carb, high quality food, I would definitely not choose the DM. That stuff is CRAP. Anyway, before Bob started eating wet and then the YA, I was feeding Orijen dry Chicken Cat & Kitten food. It's a bit pricey (but so is the DM). The main ingredients are muscle meat and there are no by-products. They have no grains and no potato (because they feel these are high glycemic). They do have some veggies, fruit, and lentils. I personally think if you are going to feed dry, it's probably the lowest carb (other than EVo but they are owned by the evil P&G) and highest quality dry food - independently owned and they even buy their meat from decent, humane farms. It's $50.00 for 15 pounds. Maybe you could feed her mainly wet, but have a little dry down too. Do what you think is right. I believe 100% the TR protocol is the best treatment for diabetes, but it doesn't work for everyone for many reasons. Glad sweet TAshie is feeling better....
 
I'm kinda there with you, Bern. After Poe nearly hypo'd on me the other night, I'm not following TR quite as tight now. I'm not changing his food, just the duration of holding each dose.

I think everyone has to tweak their own TR for their individual cat because...wait for it...ECID :-D

We are still learning and always will be learning about how our cats are coping (and how we are) with FD. As long as we are testing, shooting, surfing them, watching bounces, etc, we will be in the learning stages.

Glad to hear Tashie is ketone free and on the mend !! cat_pet_icon
 
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