Trinity's dad finally has the testing down.

[JoeyB]

My Trinity was diagnosed with Diabetes on 7/1. Approx 6 weeks now.

I've been giving her 1 unit of Lantus twice a day, and have finally come around to regular testing the last 3-4 days since I've become accustomed to my new job/schedule. I've not tested more then twice a day, usually a couple hours after the shot so as not to associate the testing, which she isn't very thrilled about, with the shot that I've linked to her feeding to make it easier.

Her appetite and overall personality/appearance have been mostly good for the last 6 weeks or so, but there have been a few times at night that she didn't quite seem herself, and was more lethargic then usual.

My main concern has been that she rarely tests below 275, and usually comes in the 300-320 range. As you can tell from my lack of experience with dosing, I know there is something that needs to be done, but don't really know what it is.

My reading has led me to believe I must start upping the insulin dose, but how much, for how long before reassessing the dosage is new to me. If anyone out there with more experience in this could help me out, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[morrieb1]

Lantus generally doesn't kick in until 2 to 3 hours after a shot, so if you are testing two hours after a shot - you are likely seeing the highest blood sugar levels of the cycle.

The two most important reasons to glucose test your cat are

1. To make sure its safe to give insulin - that her blood sugar isn't too low - and that means testing BEFORE you give insulin. I run it all together - she needs to be tested before she gets breakfast/dinner - and then I shoot while she's busy eating.

2. To determine the correct dosage/make adjustments. That decision is based on the lowest point of the 12 hour cycle between shots - and generally happens around the halfway point - 6 hours.

Its good that you have started testing - but the time you've chosen to do so is really not the best in terms of showing you how the insulin is working.

Em

 

[Deb & Wink]

You need to test in the middle of the 12 hour cycle to find Trinity's nadir, or lowest point. Most cats nadir aournd +5 to +7 but some are earlier (my Wink was +4) and some are later.

If you could get some of those mid-cycle numbers, we could help more.

Do you give a treat with the testing? Some low carb pure protein treat like freeze dried chicken or some ground turkey cooked lightly or even some of the low carb food can be given as a treat.

The Temptations treats are too high carb for a diabetic cat. I recommend that you stop feeding those to Trinity. They are keeping her numbers higher.

 

[JoeyB]

Lantus generally doesn't kick in until 2 to 3 hours after a shot, so if you are testing two hours after a shot - you are likely seeing the highest blood sugar levels of the cycle.

The two most important reasons to glucose test your cat are

1. To make sure its safe to give insulin - that her blood sugar isn't too low - and that means testing BEFORE you give insulin. I run it all together - she needs to be tested before she gets breakfast/dinner - and then I shoot while she's busy eating.

2. To determine the correct dosage/make adjustments. That decision is based on the lowest point of the 12 hour cycle between shots - and generally happens around the halfway point - 6 hours.

Its good that you have started testing - but the time you've chosen to do so is really not the best in terms of showing you how the insulin is working.

Em

The few tests I did succeed at over the last 6 weeks have all been in the 270-335 range, therefore I wasn't highly concerned with her having a hypoglycemic episode due to too much insulin. The testing is becoming easier for both me and Trinity now. She's still not too thrilled with it, but it's over quick enough not to annoy her too badly.

I'm working on the half way point as we speak. PMPS was 334 at 10:30pm 8/14, I just tested again at +3(1:30am) and got 329. I'm planning on staying up through at least 4:30am to get the +6 number as well before I fall into a deep slumber from having stayed up so late before going to work at 10am.

The things we do for our cats!

EDIT:
PROGRESS!!! +5 came in at 232. Lowest reading I've seen from her yet!
+6 came in at 218. Almost makes me want to stay up another hour and see if it drops further but I HAVE to go to sleep.

WOW! AMPS 521 Thats the highest reading I've done yet.
+2.5 - 291 Mighty large drop!

Will check back later today after work to see what the thoughts are of everyone about what these numbers are telling me. I'm not too sure at the moment.

 

[JoeyB]

You need to test in the middle of the 12 hour cycle to find Trinity's nadir, or lowest point. Most cats nadir aournd +5 to +7 but some are earlier (my Wink was +4) and some are later.

If you could get some of those mid-cycle numbers, we could help more.

Do you give a treat with the testing? Some low carb pure protein treat like freeze dried chicken or some ground turkey cooked lightly or even some of the low carb food can be given as a treat.

The Temptations treats are too high carb for a diabetic cat. I recommend that you stop feeding those to Trinity. They are keeping her numbers higher.

See above post regarding most of your questions.

The treats have been minimal at best. 10-12 pieces in a 24 hour period? I was hoping that that small amount wouldn't interfere with her BG much but maybe it is best to try and tighten her diet even more considering her lack of lower numbers.

As far as treats involved with the BG testing, it seems that my brutish method of just making her lie still for the short amount of time that the test takes works pretty efficiently. I'm going to start doing that FIRST in the regimen of giving her the shot, then feeding her after all the other steps are finished. As the repetitions increase, she seems to struggle less and realize there is food coming at the end of all this annoyance with the testing! GRIN

The dry food I'm using, Nature's Variety Instinct Chicken Mean, came up one of the best for carbs when I ran it through the Cat Food Carb Calculator that Venita helped me setup. Trinity eats about 75% wet and 25% dry, and Nubi is exactly opposite with 25% wet and 75% dry food. Give or take a little bit. The carbs are about 18-20% in the dry food.

The main reason I still have the dry food out is because my other cat, Nubi, is not very happy with the wet food transition that Trinity has finally finished up for the most part.

If Trinity's diet is indicated as part of the problem, Nubi is just going to have to get in the game, and follow along. I don't want to risk the ones health for the others comfort.

EDIT:
I've also started an online spreadsheet to get all her info together and much easier to access.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html
Now I just need to figure out how to put that in my signature and I'll be ready to roll with this!

 

[RobinCot]

You are progressing nicely since learning how to do the sugardance. I am so glad that you are testing. Trinity is a lucky cat to have you caring for her. She will calm down with the testing regimen. I think you are seeing that already. I don't even have to hold my sugarfoster much anymore - he just gets into position and stays there through the testing and shot. His reward is his meal and sometimes a nice brushing if I am getting mid-cycle shots.

I agree with Deb - even the small amount of Temptation treats is providing too many carbs, I'm afraid. We all use free-dried or dehydrated chicken treats or even cooked chicken pieces as rewards.

It would be really great if you could slowly transition both kitties off the dry food. Put out less and less each day or week and add more of the wet food. Eventually they will learn to use the canned food for grazing. This might take a lot of patience so go at your own rate. Dry food, no matter how many carbs, is not good for kitties. It can cause a whole host of other health issues. We all fell for the convenience of leaving it out but it is a pre-curser to a lot of vet bills and pain later.

You are doing a great job!!! So glad that you are with us here. Now we just have to get those numbers down.

By the way, I was born and raised in Wilmington. Went to Mt. Pleasant High School and lived next to it off of Philadelphia Pike.

 

[BJM]

There are very few dry foods which are low carb:

Young Again 0 Carb - internet only; 5% calories from carbohydrates
Evo Cat and Kitten - 8% calories from carbohydrates; company had a large recall recently, so may be difficult to find
Wellness Core Original in tan and gold bag - 11% caloreis from carbohydrates

It may be most helpful to gradually switch the current dry food out with one of the above dry foods, if you must feed some dry food. that way, it will minimize the impact on your diabetic. None of your cats needs carbohydrates in their diets; they can make them by disassembling fat or protein molecules (pretty cool!).

Optimally, getting everyone on wet food is desired. Dry food puts an extra workload on the kidneys and may contribute to renal disease and urinary stones. See Cat Info for more information, plus a printable food chart with the percent of calories from protein, fat, and carbohydrate.

 

[Deb & Wink]

You need to change the share options on your Google spreadsheet, so we can have read only access. Open your SS in Google. Go to the upper right hand corner of the google screen and click on Share. Change the share options to "anyone who has the link". Once you do that, we will be able to look at it.

To put it in your signature, you need to 'publish to the web' and copy the link that is given at the bottom of that pop up window.

Then, go to your FDMB user control panel, upper left hand corner of your screen, clcik, then click on the Profile tab, select Edit Signature from the left hand menu list, and a free form test box pops up. Click on the URL edit command and paste the link in between the brackets, like this. link goes here

For a fancy link with your cat's name,it should look like this. Trinity's SS

Hope that helps you with the getting your SS in your signature.

 

[JoeyB]

You need to change the share options on your Google spreadsheet, so we can have read only access. Open your SS in Google. Go to the upper right hand corner of the google screen and click on Share. Change the share options to "anyone who has the link". Once you do that, we will be able to look at it.

To put it in your signature, you need to 'publish to the web' and copy the link that is given at the bottom of that pop up window.

Then, go to your FDMB user control panel, upper left hand corner of your screen, clcik, then click on the Profile tab, select Edit Signature from the left hand menu list, and a free form test box pops up. Click on the URL edit command and paste the link in between the brackets, like this. link goes here

For a fancy link with your cat's name,it should look like this. Trinity's SS

Hope that helps you with the getting your SS in your signature.

Updated and shared the link in my signature!

 

[morrieb1]

The few tests I did succeed at over the last 6 weeks have all been in the 270-335 range, therefore I wasn't highly concerned with her having a hypoglycemic episode due to too much insulin. The testing is becoming easier for both me and Trinity now. She's still not too thrilled with it, but it's over quick enough not to annoy her too badly.

I'm working on the half way point as we speak. PMPS was 334 at 10:30pm 8/14, I just tested again at +3(1:30am) and got 329. I'm planning on staying up through at least 4:30am to get the +6 number as well before I fall into a deep slumber from having stayed up so late before going to work at 10am.

The things we do for our cats!

EDIT:
PROGRESS!!! +5 came in at 232. Lowest reading I've seen from her yet!
+6 came in at 218. Almost makes me want to stay up another hour and see if it drops further but I HAVE to go to sleep.

WOW! AMPS 521 Thats the highest reading I've done yet.
+2.5 - 291 Mighty large drop!

Will check back later today after work to see what the thoughts are of everyone about what these numbers are telling me. I'm not too sure at the moment.[/quote]


Great job with those tests - yeah I know about the things we do for our cats...but once you get Trinity's proper dose figured out and have a grasp of the basic principles behind the various recommendations it will be a lot easier. If you're lucky, you'll find yourself with a cat thats diet controlled and won't have to do much at all - but even if she keeps needing insulin, you'll be able to find a treatment balance that meets both her needs and your own.

The Young Again folks estimate the Natures Variety Instinct at a bit less than 8% carbs - is that what your calculator got? (I started to do the math, but all those minerals seemed like too much effort). I'm asking because I'm looking for a backup in case the EVO gets recalled again. Canned is certainly best, but sometimes life involves a bit of compromise.

Prediabetes I had Temptations and Greenies in the house - but both my cats switched easily to freezedried - I use Simply Nourish from Petsmart and Purebites from whatever online source I order food from.

Sorry for rambling - on to what you asked. I think you can see from the numbers that the Lantus starts to really do its work between 2-3 hours and then the BG continues to drop until at least +6. Yes it might have dropped further after that - but you can always test on different days at different times when you find it more convenient and gradually you'll have enough information to make a pretty good guess as to how a typical 12 hour cycle runs for her.

And don't let the 521 throw you. I'm sure while I'm typing this someone else has already explained about bounces - but the short version is that when a cat has been diabetic for a bit - their liver is used to running high bg numbers....and a lower than usual for them number often triggers the production of glycogen to bring the bg up to what it thinks is normal. Particularly if the cat is trying to make glucose at the same time the insulin is starting to wear off...you will see an usually high number, like you did at this last preshot.

Its scary but normal. I echo what's already been said - you are doing a great job and Trinity is very lucky to have you.

Em

 

[Deb & Wink]

Good job with the SS link in your signature. I can access it now just fine.

 

[JoeyB]

The Young Again folks estimate the Natures Variety Instinct at a bit less than 8% carbs - is that what your calculator got? (I started to do the math, but all those minerals seemed like too much effort). I'm asking because I'm looking for a backup in case the EVO gets recalled again. Canned is certainly best, but sometimes life involves a bit of compromise.Em

The Carb Calculator that I use gave Nature's Variety Instincts Chicken Meal a dry carb count of 18.2 and wet carb count of 20.

These were the lowest I could find in an easily available dry at a decent price. Once I get the money together I want to go to the zero carb formula by Young Again, just need to put the extra $$$ together to do it!

 

[BJM]

Evo cat and Kitten dry is 8% calories from carbohydrates.
Wellness Core Original in gold and tan bag is 11% calories from carbohydrates.

 

[morrieb1]

The Young Again folks estimate the Natures Variety Instinct at a bit less than 8% carbs - is that what your calculator got? (I started to do the math, but all those minerals seemed like too much effort). I'm asking because I'm looking for a backup in case the EVO gets recalled again. Canned is certainly best, but sometimes life involves a bit of compromise.Em

The Carb Calculator that I use gave Nature's Variety Instincts Chicken Meal a dry carb count of 18.2 and wet carb count of 20.

These were the lowest I could find in an easily available dry at a decent price. Once I get the money together I want to go to the zero carb formula by Young Again, just need to put the extra $$$ together to do it!

Hmmm - are you sure you added in the minerals on your calculator?

I ask because of the difference between what you got and what Young Again says http://youngagainpetfood.com/page.asp?c=977 They claim the NFE carbs are 8.47% and that's pretty close to what I got when I went back and struggled through the math on the ScheyderWeb calculator (8.2% to be exact). I might buy a small bag to see if mine will eat it - always good to be prepared in case of another EVO recall.

I have heard the Young Again is excellent, but I really can't afford it. I'm lucky enough that the occasional use of <10% carb dry doesn't have an effect on my cats BG - of course every cat is different.

Em

 

[JoeyB]

The Young Again folks estimate the Natures Variety Instinct at a bit less than 8% carbs - is that what your calculator got? (I started to do the math, but all those minerals seemed like too much effort). I'm asking because I'm looking for a backup in case the EVO gets recalled again. Canned is certainly best, but sometimes life involves a bit of compromise.Em

The Carb Calculator that I use gave Nature's Variety Instincts Chicken Meal a dry carb count of 18.2 and wet carb count of 20.

These were the lowest I could find in an easily available dry at a decent price. Once I get the money together I want to go to the zero carb formula by Young Again, just need to put the extra $$$ together to do it!

Hmmm - are you sure you added in the minerals on your calculator?

I ask because of the difference between what you got and what Young Again says http://youngagainpetfood.com/page.asp?c=977 They claim the NFE carbs are 8.47% and that's pretty close to what I got when I went back and struggled through the math on the ScheyderWeb calculator (8.2% to be exact). I might buy a small bag to see if mine will eat it - always good to be prepared in case of another EVO recall.

I have heard the Young Again is excellent, but I really can't afford it. I'm lucky enough that the occasional use of <10% carb dry doesn't have an effect on my cats BG - of course every cat is different.

Em

Venita helped me when I saw her to setup Trinity with supplies. She downloaded a quick Cat Food Carb Caculator, but said that it's numbers weren't perfect, just a guideline to go by. The ScheyderWeb calculator is probably more accurate.

 

[JoeyB]

You need to test in the middle of the 12 hour cycle to find Trinity's nadir, or lowest point. Most cats nadir aournd +5 to +7 but some are earlier (my Wink was +4) and some are later.

If you could get some of those mid-cycle numbers, we could help more.

Do you give a treat with the testing? Some low carb pure protein treat like freeze dried chicken or some ground turkey cooked lightly or even some of the low carb food can be given as a treat.

The Temptations treats are too high carb for a diabetic cat. I recommend that you stop feeding those to Trinity. They are keeping her numbers higher.

Thanks for the heads up on the testing times and treats. I've almost completely eliminated the Temptations in the last couple days. She's only gotten 6-8 pieces a day instead of the 10-15 she was getting. I'm a bit short on cash, so can't get any other treats at the moment, but will be looking into that over the weekend more then likely. I've also limited her access to the Nature's Variety Instinct as well, trying to force both my cats towards the full wet diet.

I've got Trinity's SS up and running, and to be honest, I'm a bit concerned with the way the numbers are coming out. They are obviously higher then I'd like to see, but the most recent mid-cycle test of 370 to an AMPS of 340 was the first I've seen that jumped between cycles like that.

With my initial testing prior to setting up Trinity's SS, I was concerned with the higher numbers and did up her insulin from 1 unit BID to 1.5 unit BID. She had been on the 1 unit for approx 6 weeks prior to this.

I know it takes a few days for an insulin adjustment to settle in, but guess I'm trying to find out whether or not I should have upped her dosage the way I did. Her appetite has been normal the last couple days, but she seems not to have as much energy/personality as she did prior to the increased dosage. Did I perhaps jump the gun with the increase without having a full supporting set of BG numbers prior to it?

The testing regimen has been getting easier for both of us I'm happy to say, but it seems like now with more information at my disposal that my stress level in regards to this is rising.

Any hints and heads-up you might give me about what is going on with Trinity would be greatly appreciated.

 

[nckitties3]

Just throwing in my 2 cents.

Relax, there is a mountain of info you'll need when caring for a sugarkitty. You can't get it all at once, not in a couple days, or weeks or even months. It is a constant learning process, particularly because ECID - every cat is different.

Do you have a Petsmart near you? The Simply Nourish freeze dried treats are the best bet, but get the ones in the dog snack area, not cat snack. They are the exact same thing, but larger pieces you can cut or break for kitty. Cat bag .81oz I believe are about $3, dog bag of 5oz is $8, much better price per ounce and lasts a long time.

You've had a lot of info thrown at you, take it a piece at a time and put it into action. Sometimes looking at the big picture can be pretty overwhelming. You'll do fine and so will kitty and there are always people here to try to help.

Just wait, 6 months from now, you'll be giving out info and advice to newbees too.

 

[Deb & Wink]

We don't mean to stress you out. Sorry if we have overwhelmed you with information. I always recommend deep breathing exercises to help with the stress.

We don't know if the jump to 1.5U was too much. The dose of Lantus will take time to settle. We say, give it 6-10 cycles (3-5 days) to see how this dose is working. We'll look at the lows or nadirs and reevaluate then.

Hang in there, we'll help you every step of the way.

With my initial testing prior to setting up Trinity's SS,

You talk about your 'initial testing' before you set up the SS. If you have any of those numbers available, it would be great if you could add those to the SS.

It would also be good, to add a row to the SS, that shows when you started the insulin and that your starting dose was 1U. Would you please do that for us?

 

[JoeyB]

We don't know if the jump to 1.5U was too much. The dose of Lantus will take time to settle. We say, give it 6-10 cycles (3-5 days) to see how this dose is working. We'll look at the lows or nadirs and reevaluate then.

Hang in there, we'll help you every step of the way.

With my initial testing prior to setting up Trinity's SS,

You talk about your 'initial testing' before you set up the SS. If you have any of those numbers available, it would be great if you could add those to the SS.

It would also be good, to add a row to the SS, that shows when you started the insulin and that your starting dose was 1U. Would you please do that for us?

Good idea on both of those! Got the SS updated to show the requested info.

To save you a tab, I'll tell you about the early tests here as well. During the period of 8/11-8/13, I tested approx 5 times, at varied times during the cycle, and they ranged from a low of 270 to a high of 340. Best I can remember due to having reset the memory in the BG tester before realizing I could have saved those test results.

I'll read the instruction manual next time before I play with a new electronic gadget. HA!