Trey`s Amps 324

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housecats4

housecats4

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Well today we gave Trey 2 units because his BG has been up for 3 testing.7am.165/9.2 gave 1 unit 7pm 333/18.5 1 unit. Tested @12am before bed 288/16 this morning 324/18 so we can him 2 units.I hope I did the right thing. 3 reading before that he was reading low don`t want him to low Will get back to you later Kath @ Trey
 
Re: Tue with Trey

Good morning Kath and Trey,
I hope you have a great day today and Trey's numbers improve.
One more thing to do when you get a moment - can you edit the subject line of your first post here to something like 6/08 Trey amps 324

I looked again at Trey's ss and I don't see the higher numbers the last 3 tests.
I am sure others will come along to look at the ss and let you know what they see.
 
Re: Trey`s Amps 324 (911)

Ok just got home from vets She is not happy with me changing Trey`s dose now we have to do it again for 7 days 3 Units every 12 hours. She said don`t test if it makes you worry just keep an eye on him through the day if he don`t go too low in the day he will not at night because he uses more sugar when he is active in the day. Does this make scents to you.She is very sure that this is the dose he has to have maybe 4 units. She said that Lantus only last 12 hours and it is slow to release so therefore it is ok to do this. We have to wait another week to do a curve because we changed his dose..... we will be testing every 12 hours before his shot but I am going to try to do this maybe because she is a newer vet she may know more about this insulin. I hope so well will keep in touch I still have not done a profile tried last night for about hour and it just keep sending me back to where I started . Not a lot of patients last night.Baby setting a 9 month old and just sending 20months,3,and 5 years home after being with them for 4 hours.. Tired short fuse ok chat later Kath & Trey
 
My vet says the opposite. He says because Lantus use in cats if fairly new, especially in Canada, it's safest to start at a low dose, hold for around 10 days then increase if needed. He's also big on hometesting. And I recently converted him to the protocol we use here.
I guess you have some decisions to make on how YOU want to treat Trey. It's alot to take in but take a deep breath and research, research, and then decide.

Good luck.
 
Kath,
Please continue to test. Please. To give a cat too much insulin and not test is very dangerous.
You may NOT SEE ANY SIGNS of a problem.
Please read the stickie about HYPO symptoms and what to do.

I hope others come along to explain more fully to you the dangers.
I don't think what your vet is saying makes sense. I completely disagree with the statement "if you worry, then don't test". Just look at the other day you tested and found Trey at 120, so you did not give a shot - just imagine if you had not tested and just gone ahead with his shot. It was very wise of you to be testing and not give that shot, plus it was good to test again in 3hrs and saw that Trey was still low. Because you have no tests during those 12 hours, we have no idea how low Trey actually went on that day.

So, because you missed that shot, the Lantus in Trey's shed got used up, and that's why you got the higher numbers come back.

Please print out the stickie about how to treat hypo situations because it is true that they can kill.
Have some high carb wet food handy and also some karo so that you can take care of any very low numbers Trey gets. Post in your condo to let the board know and someone can help you with Trey and getting his numbers to come back up, be sure to put his BG number in the first post with edit like you did this morn to add his amps.
 
I would like to encourage you to test test test as well only because you never know what your cats BG might be with lantus I actually was not even hometesting Do Lou at first since we had a lot of trouble with it but he was going downhill on N and when I was able to get him on lantus and knew enough about the type of insulin it was I felt like it was so important to test him frequently of course we all must do what we are comfortable with but he has gone low several times so I feel like its just so important to be testing frequent. Wishing you the best with whatever decision cat_pet_icon you make for Trey
 
Kathy
It is not my nature to speak badly of the vets, nor is it my intention to "force" you to listen to the board over your vet but right now I have a sick feeling in my stomach for Trey.
I wonder if your vet is related to one of the 4 vets I "ignored" over here in Montreal.
But I do urge you to listen to what the amazing people here have to say who have much more experienc in treating FD then a regular general vet.

I will repeat my story of Max.
D/X in Nov/09
Vet #1 put Max on Caninsulin. No hometesting. I was very unhappy with this, especially with the recall and found a "specialist" at the emergency hospital here.

Vet # 2 was familar with Lantus, wanted me to start at 2u but I knew from the board we should start at 1u. I was also advised not to home test, just shoot and do a curve once a week. There was not a chance that I was going to put insulin into Max without knowing what his BG was and possibly killing him. I thought I would try easing up on his testing (around Jan 22 if you want to look at my ss) but I knew I could not keep Max safe if I did not.

Vet #3 told me to hold my dose at 5.5 for a week, don't test and see what will happen. I ignored him too.

Vet # 4 told me to do a full increase from when I was at 5.5 right to 6.5. Also stop testing. You can see from my ss that the highest dose I ever reached with Max was 6u when he came crashing down (in a good way) and has been OTJ since April 3.
Again, had I given him the 6.5u as the last vet suggested and not tested him, my beautiful boy would probably be dead.

Max is OTJ soley due to the support, experience, knowledge, compassion and even love from this board.
These beans here are mine and Max's family. As I consiedr them to be mine.
I urge you to let them (us) help you with Trey.
 
Hi Kath

just another post to encourage you to spotcheck Trey.

You've gotten really good feedback in the past few days - unfortunately, I have to agree (as I was in your shoes too with misinformation from vet) please spot check Trey in between shots. There is no way of knowing what each dose is doing without collecting numbers.

Many of us have been thru this and if takes many of us to repeat it - then its because we've been there and we want to make sure your kitty is in safe range.
This is how we learn and how we learn how each cycle goes.
Please read the information stickies. Good luck!
 
OMG!!!!!!!!! :o :shock: Every 3 hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My Webber was given 4 units of Lantus on his first day at the vet (because she is not used to prescribing Lantus) and he dropped over 200 points throughout the day. And that was with the stress of being at the vet and roped to get tested all day. I cannot imagine how low he would have gone at home. Even after 12 hours he was under 100.

I know that all caps in considered yelling on message boards...
PLEASE PLEASE TEST AND TEST AND TEST IF YOU ARE GOING TO FOLLOW THE VETS ADVICE

Okay I feel better. Sorry anyone if you think I am being too harsh..... :mrgreen:

Good luck with what you decide.
 
Hi Kath,
This is my first time posting on your thread so please forgive me if I ask questions that have already been asked and answered.

I'm looking at Trey's SS and don't see the low numbers you are referring to .. Unless you mean the 120??
Is this an uncomfortably low number for you? And if so, would you mind explaining why?

We all have our own goals and comfort levels so I'm not trying to put you in a corner -- I just want to understand what your goal is in order to try and help.

Most of us here have the goal of remission -- (which means getting and shooting lower numbers) though some of us just want our cats nicely and safetly regulated (meaning we don't mind, or have accepted, that we will be giving insulin to our cats for the rest of their lives)
So you may choose to make different decisions based on your goal.
Are you trying for remission with Trey or are you satisfied with regulation?

I do have to tell you that whatever you decide, I am mortified at your vets suggestion of "if it makes you worry -not to test" -- that is one of the most irresponsible and dismissive things I've ever heard... and I would imagine you being someone who takes care of children understands the complete insanity of that concept!
I can understand your confusion and i'm sure that once the shock wears off you will be livid... What logical person wouldn't be?
And seriously... would that vet wait for a week before doing a curve if it were his "child?" Why it is that we think animals deserve less I will never understand. ( I can't roll my eyes far enough back in my head!)

Anyway, i'm sorry you are having to deal with this. Not many things worse than feeling like you're not sure where to put your faith.
But I have to point out that being a newer vet doesn't necessarily mean more contemporary knowledge... what it does necessarily mean is less experience.
Ask your vet how many diabetic feline patients he/she has -- ask how long she/he has been working with them - and how many have gone into remission - or had a hypo... Ask if they will be willing to spend time with you out of the kindness of their heart at midnight on a friday, when your cat is sick and throwing up and has a lower number than you are comfortable with.
The collective experience on this board will give so much more that a single vet who considers your concern over your cats BG something to ignore.
You're best bet is to find a vet that is willing to work with you to keep Trey SAFE and healthy - and to have both this board and a good vet on your side.

I hope you get some rest and I truly hope that you don't decrease the amount of testing you do - knowledge is power...
 
Hi Kath,
I just wanted to give you a link to another kitty who is safely back in good numbers now: Angel and Ducky.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=16682

Angel had a doozy of a nite with Ducky and low numbers, so if you read through the above link, you'll see what happened and how everyone helped Angel get Ducky back up.

It's just one example to show you the importance of testing to keep your kitty happy, healthy and safe.
 
Hi just want you to know you have convinced me tomorrow I am getting a second opinion. Going to see another vet tomorrow will let you know....Kath & Trey
 
:thumbup
how is Trey doing tonight? How are you doing?

Feel free to post anytime if you need help!
Lots of good beans here.
 
Kath
Good luck tomorrow.
It is disheartening that many vets are against hometesting and just do not understand
what we do here.
129 (I think) kittis OTJ by following the protocoal here. That must say something.
Now we have "supermax" and Nay on trial.
Just remember that Tey is your baby!!

As Ronnie said, this is the best place to be.
 
Whew what great news, Kath. I am glad you are getting a 2nd opinion and look forward to hearing how it went with the new vet.

When I go to the vets office, I always take a copy of my ss with me so that they can see how Shadoe and Oliver are doing. By home testing, there is no need to pay for any expensive fructosamine tests, and they can see exactly how we are doing. My vets don't even bother saying anything at all about my dose because they can see how we are doing and they are pleased!
As Ronnie suggested, if you can take a couple tests tonite, you will know that Trey is doing ok. Be sure to take a test just before you head to bed.

Good luck tomorrow and take a list of your questions and concerns with you!
 
Kath - I hope I didn't upset you or make you angry. It is hard though when we see so many beans come through that are given the same advice that others have been given. It can be scary....and I admit I got scared for you and Trey.

Good luck with your search. Remember--we are all here to support you and Trey. Keep you sane :roll: (at times that is challenging for us all ;-) ) and keep Trey safe, healthy and happy.

Good night from Webber, Lacey, Shelby, Chloe and me :mrgreen:
 
A couple of thoughts/observations to add to the choir.

Evaluate what the old and new vet have to say and what we have to say in light of the research on Lantus. The Tight Regulation Protocol for Levemir/Lantus is the public version of research published in the Journal of Feline Veterinary Medicine and Surgery. We base dosing decisions here on that protocol. Is the information you are getting from the vets based on the research or based on their experience with insulin other than Lantus?

Lantus works best when there is consistent dosing and the doses are held for a period of days. Jumping between doses can cause wonky BG numbers. It's important to stick with a dose unless the numbers your getting dictate otherwise based on the protocol.

We work from the principle of start low and go slow. This allows you to find what is Trey's ideal dose.
 
((((Kath)))) I know this is hard. I saw your note on your spreadsheet "pray that he is right." Please keep testing Trey, you don't have to rely on prayer alone. Please get a test tonight before bed, this is one of your lowest preshots and it's a big dose increase over yesterday and today. Don't leave this to chance, please test and come back here if you see a number that surprises you.
 
((Kath)) I'm really glad to see that you came back this evening.
I hope that you are able to find a vet that will be willing to work with you.
Also keep in mind that sometimes vets seem resistant at first... but after you can show them the data you have collected and they see how commited you are... they get on board. If you really like this vet otherwise, he/she might be worth the effort of educating.

I also agree with the others and hope that you will be able to test tonight.
 
I posted here not long ago after catching up on this condo and for some reason my post is gone....? Don't know what I have done now - haha

Bottom line is that you MUST test! My vet thought I was nuts at first but that is how I learned and there were a couple of times that thank goodness I did test before each shot because I could have killed her if I had gone ahead with regular dose. I think it has been stressed enough, but the way I explained it to others was that I would not shoot myself or my kid (hypothetical kid but you get the idea) with insulin without testing regularly and absolutely before a shot, knowing what it can do - and it is the same with the furry kid. It is just too dangerous.

We know it is scary and confusing in the beginning. All I can say is trust the people here - they know what they are doing. Good luck with second opinion :)
 
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