Transitioning

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Tyger&George

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First of all thank you to everyone who has ever had anything to do with this site. I honestly thought I was coming home early from a trip to bury my baby. She's fine and she's going to be better.

I believe I mentioned in my introduction post that George is currently on a/d as given by the ER doctor, and because she won't eat the w/d wet, the vet I took her to yesterday said to continue to feed her the a/d. Aside from her personal preference (she may decide she doesn't like a/d by Thursday) and finances, is there any reason I shouldn't keep her on a/d? She is a dry addict and usually when she stops liking wet, she'll only eat dry, so if a/d isn't the best choice I'd like to transition her to another wet food.

When looking at numbers what number is considered 'low carb'. I was looking at the science diet w/d and it is 39 protein and 26 carb. Should that be what I aim for or lower?
 
In terms of Carbs we've been trying to keep Shiro strictly under 10%. IMO anything above 16% is too high - though I do occasionally slip Shiro some canned food that has a few more carbs, as he tends to prefer it (Fancy Feast Medleys spring to mind as one "high-carb for low-carb but low-carb for high-carb" food. I normally feed him Fancy Feast Classics (only!) or the Friskies pate and flaked low-carb options. Other people around here will undoubtedly give you a series of links that don't immediately spring to my mind so just hang tight!

Shiro too is a kibble addict and he's had a rough time transitioning. I bought some Bonito flakes (google them, they're cheap!) to sprinkle over wet food to tempt him in. Some people also like parmesean cheese but that's not always healthy in large quantities. If your cat isn't immuno-suppressed (Shiro is so we can't use this trick) try FortiFlora - it's a dietary supplement that some cats go crazy for. Just make sure you get the cat variety.
 
With a diabetic you want to stay below 10% carbs and most of us have found that somewhere around about 6-7% is even better for them. Its kind of a funny thing with cats and food, my bunch ate the same dry flavor for years! But when we put everyone over on to wet when we adopted our first diabetic they would eat a flavor for a couple of days and love it, by the third day they were all looking at me with that "That again?" look.

What I found works wonderfully with all 13 of mine is finding 4-5 flavors that they all can agree on and then rotate them daily so that there are several days inbetween flavors. Our bunch because it is so large food of choice is Friskies Pate for the majority and for Mz. Musette who is really carb sensitive Fancy Feast Classics. For the majority we feed Friskies Turkey and Giblets, Country Dinner, Poultry Platter, Chicken and Liver Dinner and once a week they get their beloved Mariner's Catch or some other fishy flavor. Well all except Maxwell who won't come within 100 miles of anything fish flavored...Odd boy that he is and you would thinkhe would be the one that LOVED fish since he is originally from New Orleans...lol

It takes a little experiementation to find what they like and don't like when it comes to canned wet food. But if you can find several flavors and switch them up every couple of days they usually don't get too bored with the same old same old. And if you think about it in the wild they would dine on mouse one day, sparrow the next, maybe a lizard here and there with a cricket chaser :-D As well as if someone made us eat t-bone steak everyday we would get pretty sick of t-bone steak regardless of how tasty it was.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Time to do some nutrition reading!

Start at Cat Info

Then check over the tables on the following 2 websites.
Binky's Page

Pet Food Nutritional Values

a/d spiked SPitzer's glucose when he had it ... but at least he ate then. It is high fat, and moderately high carb food, not intended for regular diet, but rather for special circumstances, such as not eating, or emaciated body condition.
 
MommaOfMuse said:
It takes a little experiementation to find what they like and don't like when it comes to canned wet food. But if you can find several flavors and switch them up every couple of days they usually don't get too bored with the same old same old. And if you think about it in the wild they would dine on mouse one day, sparrow the next, maybe a lizard here and there with a cricket chaser :-D As well as if someone made us eat t-bone steak everyday we would get pretty sick of t-bone steak regardless of how tasty it was.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
Click to expand...

LOL! When the kids were younger they would "hunt" any creepy crawlies that made it into the apt. There was one time Tyger was playing with a spider, and stepped on it before he was ready to eat it. He looked so disappointed. :lol:

Tomorrow I go shopping for the kids. I like your idea about the 4-5 different types. And someone in my other thread suggested freezing food, so that will be something I look into once I figure out what they do and don't like.
 
BJM said:
Time to do some nutrition reading!

Start at Cat Info

Then check over the tables on the following 2 websites.
Binky's Page

Pet Food Nutritional Values

a/d spiked SPitzer's glucose when he had it ... but at least he ate then. It is high fat, and moderately high carb food, not intended for regular diet, but rather for special circumstances, such as not eating, or emaciated body condition.
Click to expand...


I guess it is time to do the reread! I went to the sites you mentioned when she was first diagnosed, but .....

So now I have to reread and not be overwhelmed. I know in the past the main reason for not doing wet was primarily for dental reasons. My sister constantly said (and even said to me today!) that when you feed a cat wet food you have more dental problems than when you feed them dry. (She used to work as a receptionist for a vet ophthalmologist who shared an office with a general vet) But now I know to look for the foods that are 10% or less which makes the job that much easier!

George definitely needs to eat right now. I'd say she's borderline anorexic, although she is a "healthy" weight now. Tyger's spine is prominent, but he can't have a high fat diet so I'm hoping the vet's suggestion of Iam's Low Residue will get him back in shape.
 
A/D is a supplemental diet, and does not have all the nutrition a cat needs on an ongoing basis. It says that on the can.

Here we have always used the non-fish flavors of Fancy Feast Classics (the red box).
 
One low carb, high calorie food that I used for weight gain with great results is canned Wellness Kitten. My Gabby had stomach cancer and it kept weight on her for quite some time (until she got picky with her food because of the progression of the cancer). Wellness Chicken and Turkey, and the regular EVO Turkey and Chicken canned food are also high calorie, low carb, and good for weight gain. Once he gets back to a healthy weight, you may have to cut back the amount of food or switch to a lower calorie food.

Tyger&George said:
So now I have to reread and not be overwhelmed. I know in the past the main reason for not doing wet was primarily for dental reasons. My sister constantly said (and even said to me today!) that when you feed a cat wet food you have more dental problems than when you feed them dry. (She used to work as a receptionist for a vet ophthalmologist who shared an office with a general vet) But now I know to look for the foods that are 10% or less which makes the job that much easier!
Click to expand...

Dry food does not clean cats' teeth, nor does wet food cause dental problems. Both my cats were on a dry diet for years because I was told the same thing by my first vet. Gabby ate nothing but dry food for 13 years, and she had horrible teeth and had to have most of them pulled. However, the dry food did cause kidney problems for Gabby which was way worse than a bad mouth even if there was some kind of correlation. Bandit ate dry food the first 6 years of his life, and it caused obesity and diabetes. However, he only has two teeth left in his mouth at this point--and his dental problems started before I switched to an all canned diet.

Good dental health is caused by two things--genetics, and regular teeth cleanings. Repeated chewing on veterinarian dental chews or raw bones (not cooked) can also help, but the "dental" hard treats you get in the grocery store are worthless. Dry food and hard treats shatter when chewed, and many cats don't even bother chewing the food to begin with. Think of your own dental health--does your dentist tell you to keep your teeth healthy by brushing daily and coming in for regular cleanings, or does he tell you to eat sugary, crunchy cookies all day? :smile:

Here's a great page that explains better why the dry/dental health thing is a myth: http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/does-dry-food-clean-the-teeth/

Also read Dr. Pierson's page on dental health: http://catinfo.org/#Dental_Disease
 
Going to the market to pick up some Friskies, 9-Lives and Fancy Feast Classics. George has been known to scarf and barf, so I am going to be particularly stingy with the transition.

Do any of you recommend any unscented pet stain remover/carpet cleaners?

I just looked at one of the charts again and noticed I was looking at the KCAL numbers, not the % as fed numbers. Which number is more important?
 
% calories from carbohydrates 1st, then within that, to gain, go for higher cal, to lose or maintain, go for lower cal. Lower cal (kcal) will have slightly less fat, which is 8.5 cal/gram vs the 3.5 for protein ... that is estimated from dog studies, but seems to be what vets use.

For dental health, you might see if they'd gnaw on raw chicken wings. Biting into the raw meat and scraping on the bones is, I believe, supposed to help keep the teeth cleaned.
 
BJM said:
% calories from carbohydrates 1st, then within that, to gain, go for higher cal, to lose or maintain, go for lower cal. Lower cal (kcal) will have slightly less fat, which is 8.5 cal/gram vs the 3.5 for protein ... that is estimated from dog studies, but seems to be what vets use.

For dental health, you might see if they'd gnaw on raw chicken wings. Biting into the raw meat and scraping on the bones is, I believe, supposed to help keep the teeth cleaned.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the only gnawing people like to do in this house is on paper or plastic. :evil:

Added a little of the FF Tender Beef and Liver Feast to her a/d. Ate it all up and attempted to eat her brother's uneaten portion. dancing_cat

Now if she can just keep it down...
 
Tyger&George said:
George has been known to scarf and barf, so I am going to be particularly stingy with the transition.
Click to expand...

Bandit is a scarf and barfer, so I make sure I don't feed him too much in one sitting. He doesn't get more than 1.5oz of food (half a can of Fancy Feast) at a time, or he'll eat too quickly and barf the whole thing up. If you feed smaller, more frequent meals, you shouldn't have a scarf and barf problem.
 
George seems to be doing fine on the transition. She's liking the FF classics so far.

Tyger is a little more reluctant, but he's not eating in general because of the fluid on his lungs. Going to order the FortiFlora to hide the taste of the Rutin if the docs say it is okay.

Got my new syringes and hope to get my home test kit tomorrow. :)
 
We are still good with the FF. She wasn't thrilled with the Friskies country style meal, but she ate it, and I have yet to try the 9 Lives. My only concern now is that she still vomits. It isn't a scarf and barf like she has done in the past. It is this weird thing that she usually vomits after going to the litter box. It used to be daily, but now it seems to be every other day. She isn't losing weight - looks like she is being steady and I'm super happy about her BG numbers.
 
Hello, my Pudge vomits when he has anything with beef. Some cats are sensitive to beef. The last couple of times he did this was when he had FF chicken and beef plus decided to jump off a filing cabinet! So I am wondering if your kitty might be finding the litter box opening a bit high - it could be cut down a bit with a utility knife.
 
I need the high litter box. Her brother is a digger and I think half of the cat sand is on the carpet instead of in the box!

She vomits pretty much everything. :/ Just something else I need a vet to look into. The last one didn't have an answer for me.
 
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