too much weight loss too fast?

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SuePea

SuePea

Member Since 2015
My cat Charlie was diagnosed about 3 weeks ago. My vet wanted to see what happened with simple weight loss. I switched to wet Friskies & controlled his diet & looked like he was doing well. Yesterday he was doing really well, today he's a bit sluggish and drinking a lot again. His blood sugar is 560 mg/dl. I ran down to the vet's and weighed him and he's lost nearly a pound in 3 weeks. Is that too much, too fast, and could it be messing with his sugars? I've got a call in to the vet for an insulin prescription.
 
That is a lot of weight to lose that quickly but it's not totally unusual either. Our diabetic kitties eat lots of food but the glucose can't get into the cells without insulin, so they're basically starving.

I think you're right to get started on insulin! Let us know what type your vet uses and we can help you learn how to use it most effectively!

You'll also want to learn how to test at home. You can use a human glucometer (that's what most of us use) and it'll help you to really know what's going on inside Charlie and will be the best way to keep him safe too
 
I've got a ReliOn glucometer and test strips. My vet doesn't even want to try to treat him. She says she hasn't treated a cat with diabetes in 20 years and it was almost impossible and I'd have to come in all the time and she doesn't have the space to be able to treat him. I think I talked her into giving me a prescription for insulin as long as I don't hold her responsible if he dies of hypoglycemia. I have to go in tomorrow to sign the waiver. Has anyone heard of any other conditions that can mimic diabetes?
 
Wow... Just wow... I thought one vet I saw was horrible because he told me I should feed dry food. The reasoning? Wet food is wet and dry food is dry.... Seriously, that was his explanation. But your vet takes the cake! Any chance you can take Charlie elsewhere? I'm so glad you're going forward with treatment though! Which insulin are you getting?

I'm not sure of any diseases mimicking diabetes, but there are some factors that can cause a diabetic cat to have higher blood sugars, like an infection in the teeth, or infection anywhere really.
 
I agree with Stacy...Wow..just wow......just because she hasn't treated a cat with diabetes in 20 years she thinks you shouldn't treat Charlie?? That's just plain insane!!

The treatment of diabetes, especially in cats has really grown leaps and bounds in that time, with a published protocol for using Lantus insulin as well as there are continuing education seminars they can attend.

If you can get the prescription for a good insulin, like Lantus, Levemir or ProZinc, we can teach you everything else you need to know
 
Please see my signature link Glucometer Notes for information on feline specific reference ranges when testing with various meter types.
Also see Vet Interview Topics if you decide to go searching for a new vet.
And my link Secondary Monitoring Tools is helpful in assessing your cat by more than just a glucose number.

Your vet needs to take some continuing education on feline diabetes; it is out there! The Midwest Veterinary Conference held in Columbus, Ohio, usually has several presentations on it each year.
 
You guys are awesome! thank you so much. I am tempted to check with the veterinary school at Boise State and see if they offer low-cost veterinary services. I wonder how many of the patients she's had over the last 20 years decided not to treat based on her recommendations.
 
BJM said:
Please see my signature link Glucometer Notes for information on feline specific reference ranges when testing with various meter types.
Also see Vet Interview Topics if you decide to go searching for a new vet.
And my link Secondary Monitoring Tools is helpful in assessing your cat by more than just a glucose number.

Your vet needs to take some continuing education on feline diabetes; it is out there! The Midwest Veterinary Conference held in Columbus, Ohio, usually has several presentations on it each year.
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I just looked at your glucometer notes. I saw a reference to a chart but can't find the chart....
 
Has your Charlie been tested for hyperthyroid? Excessive thirst and weight loss are some of the symptoms.

I am not a big fan of your vet either- good for you learning to test and take such good care of Charlie! :bighug:
 
Its called Glucometer Notes. It is more a series of ranges of glucose values, grouped by interpretation.
 
Tiger and Ruth said:
Has your Charlie been tested for hyperthyroid? Excessive thirst and weight loss are some of the symptoms.

I am not a big fan of your vet either- good for you learning to test and take such good care of Charlie! :bighug:
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I think they did a whole metabolic panel, which would have included kidney function, liver function, and I expect thyroid. I had a hyperthyroid cat once and almost lost her; she was taking the same drug they give to hyperthyroid humans--but in cats it can cause liver failure. We had to take her off the drug and she had to go to San Diego for radiological treatment to destroy the benign tumors on her thyroid. Cost a small fortune at the time, something I can no longer do, but it worked like a dream and she never looked back. She died of renal insufficiency at age 19.

I just tested his sugar about a half hour ago, a half-hour after eating, and it was 569. He's alert, hydrated and presently enjoying a dose of catnip. I am indeed using the ReLIon Confirm and after a few false starts have got the system figured out. I had to keep moving to larger lancets to get anything. It helps he's such an even-tempered lump of a beast. He never hisses or growls or bites or scratches--unless he's getting poked. Then he calls me a few names under his breath and gently tries to gnaw on my hand. I really should post a picture of him on here, he's an absolute love. What do you feed your cat? I went thru the charts available on another site and picked just plain-old Friskies with different fish recipes since they consistently had the lowest carb counts. If there's something better out there that's still reasonably priced I'd be thrilled to switch. Maybe even make my own if it's logistically feasible.
 
Sorry about your other kitty, but it sounds like she had a very long and prosperous life with you!

Charlie sounds very mellow, easy going kitty!! Are you offering treats with testing? Tiger loves chicken Pure Bites- she gets one with each test and now just the sound of the bag coming out of the cupboard and she comes running :smuggrin:

Friskies is a very good choice, I have to watch the phosphorus content as well as carbs because Tiger is early stage CKD. Have you seen this list? Dr.Lisa's Food Chart

Currently I am feeding Tiger Wellness Core Turkey,Chicken and Turkey Liver. After her pancreatitis attack, her appetite was really off and this is what she would eat. I was considering trying to make cat food as well, but my picky little eater would probably turn her nose up at it after I spent all that time making it. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Tiger and Ruth said:
Sorry about your other kitty, but it sounds like she had a very long and prosperous life with you!

Charlie sounds very mellow, easy going kitty!! Are you offering treats with testing? Tiger loves chicken Pure Bites- she gets one with each test and now just the sound of the bag coming out of the cupboard and she comes running :smuggrin:

Friskies is a very good choice, I have to watch the phosphorus content as well as carbs because Tiger is early stage CKD. Have you seen this list? Dr.Lisa's Food Chart

Currently I am feeding Tiger Wellness Core Turkey,Chicken and Turkey Liver. After her pancreatitis attack, her appetite was really off and this is what she would eat. I was considering trying to make cat food as well, but my picky little eater would probably turn her nose up at it after I spent all that time making it. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
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I hadn't thought about offering treats but will definitely look into that. Especially since I'll be testing him quite a bit over the next couple days. Thanks for the reminder on that food chart. I'd seen it once but didn't have a printer at the time, I'd been using a different food chart. Hers I think is much more to the point for what I need to know.
 
Tiger and Ruth said:
Sorry about your other kitty, but it sounds like she had a very long and prosperous life with you!

Charlie sounds very mellow, easy going kitty!! Are you offering treats with testing? Tiger loves chicken Pure Bites- she gets one with each test and now just the sound of the bag coming out of the cupboard and she comes running :smuggrin:

Friskies is a very good choice, I have to watch the phosphorus content as well as carbs because Tiger is early stage CKD. Have you seen this list? Dr.Lisa's Food Chart

Currently I am feeding Tiger Wellness Core Turkey,Chicken and Turkey Liver. After her pancreatitis attack, her appetite was really off and this is what she would eat. I was considering trying to make cat food as well, but my picky little eater would probably turn her nose up at it after I spent all that time making it. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I just reviewed Dr. Lisa's stuff and I think I'll be changing cat foods. Even the fish cans I've been using are really twice as high in carbs as they ought to be. Heading for Walmart now to change it out and I'll give my next-door neighbor the rest of the Friskies cans. I see the difference in phosphorus but I don't think that's a problem right now; his kidneys don't seem to be the problem according to the blood work. Guess I'm lucky there for a 14-year-old cat!
 
CAUTION: Switching to a lower carb level will lower the glucose level. If you have started insulin, it may lower the dose.
 
Found a vet who will treat him just fine. I have the insulin and some syringes. She checked my glucometer against the veterinary one they have and mine is running about 100 below what the veterinary one says. (they tested them simultaneously). Now I need to go about finding someplace to get PZI for under 100 bucks.
 
Hi SuePea,
Sounds your kitty is in very good hands with you! I've been using the pet-specific AlphaTrak meter that vets always recommend but am switching to a human meter because the test strips are so pricey. I've done about 40 dual tests with both meters now and the human meter averages 68% of the pet meter readings. Someone on the forum here compared the different meters to Fahrenheit and Celsius - both systems are right. You just need to understand the reference point. Check out BJM's signature links about different glucometers, if you haven't already. Very helpful!

Joan
 
Which insulin - BCP PZI (which will provide a free sample to your vet for you) or ProZinc which you may find online if you search for it.

Also, signature links for Glucometer Notes and for Secondary Monitoring Tools may have helpful info for you.
 
I'm glad to hear that you've found a new vet. Your previous vet's behaviour was very poor, IMO.

SuePea said:
Found a vet who will treat him just fine. I have the insulin and some syringes. She checked my glucometer against the veterinary one they have and mine is running about 100 below what the veterinary one says. (they tested them simultaneously). Now I need to go about finding someplace to get PZI for under 100 bucks.
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I've read here that some people have been able to get a free trial vial of PZI. @BJM - can you give more details about how to go about getting one?

SuePea said:
I see the difference in phosphorus but I don't think that's a problem right now; his kidneys don't seem to be the problem according to the blood work. Guess I'm lucky there for a 14-year-old cat!
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It may be no bad thing to watch the phosphorus content, especially given Charlie's age. From what I've read, kidney issues may not show up in tests until a significant amount of function has already been lost. If you can give Charlie food with a lower phosphorus content it could help keep his kidneys in good shape. :)

ETA - cross-posted with BJ. (Thanks for posting the info!)
 
Mitzelplik's Mom said:
Hi SuePea,
Sounds your kitty is in very good hands with you! I've been using the pet-specific AlphaTrak meter that vets always recommend but am switching to a human meter because the test strips are so pricey. I've done about 40 dual tests with both meters now and the human meter averages 68% of the pet meter readings. Someone on the forum here compared the different meters to Fahrenheit and Celsius - both systems are right. You just need to understand the reference point. Check out BJM's signature links about different glucometers, if you haven't already. Very helpful!

Joan
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Joan, my new vet actually kind of calibrated my glucometer against her pet-specific one and my glucometer runs about 100 points low. I think his dose is too high though. It looks like I'm skipping his a.m. dose because his sugar is sitting at 203 (allowing for the variance). He just inhaled his breakfast & is giving himself a good grooming at the moment! I now have his spreadsheet started. I've got another thread here about a terrible scare with potential hypo last night. I wish vets would have an emergency number the way human doctors do! No way to ask questions after hours without spending a fortune on an emergency vet.
 
SuePea said:
Joan, my new vet actually kind of calibrated my glucometer against her pet-specific one and my glucometer runs about 100 points low....
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It ran 100 mg/dL low for those tests; it may not run that much lower all the time and may run less or more low depending on the glucose levels.
If you've got the actual numbers, would you please share them with me? Thanks.
 
oh, em, gee... do you ever feel like you can't win for losing. Now I'm REALLY glad I didn't shoot him this morning; the meter said 93, so I added the 100. I'm at work and don't have access to the spreadsheet but if you subtract the 100 from each of the entries that's what the meter actually said.
 
SuePea said:
oh, em, gee... do you ever feel like you can't win for losing. Now I'm REALLY glad I didn't shoot him this morning; the meter said 93, so I added the 100. I'm at work and don't have access to the spreadsheet but if you subtract the 100 from each of the entries that's what the meter actually said.
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No, it isn't. The difference between your meter and the vet's meter or lab is variable, not constant.
 
Hi, BJ, I'm home now & got all the numbers. I'll give you just the last few before the insulin started (first tests were on the 6th and the lowest reading at the time was 510. There were a couple that were over 600 since the Confirm only says HI over that). 9a on the 9th was HI. Then at 10:47a it was 513. At the vet's office at 1:17 it was 392. At 6:16 that night it was 592. (that would have been at the time of his first shot). The next morning it was 161 at breakfast. At 7:10 that night at 1+ it was down to 55, then 135 at 2+, at 4+ it was 65. This a.m. at 2:30 (so 6+) it was 96. This morning before breakfast it was 103. I skipped the shot because I had read all the stuff about not giving the shot if it's at 200 or less. I haven't checked it yet this evening but he's clearly hardly touched the water bowl. I was out all day at work. Thank goodness I've got the next 2 days off & can watch him real close. I didn't sleep a wink last night!
 
p.s. what the sam hill is a "tight regulation protocol"? just trying to wrap my brain around the glucometer notes.. did I ever mention math is not my strong suit? & I'm approaching 36 hrs awake...
 
Tight Regulation is a protocol for using Lantus or Levemir toget the glucose as safely low as possible in the hopes the pancreas will heal enough the cat becomes diet controlled.

No math needed to compare your test results to the numbers given. That is backround data for understanding why your tests may differ from the vet and that it is OK (Celsius or Fahrenheit are both correct).
 
Tight Regulation is a protocol for using Lantus or Levemir toget the glucose as safely low as possible in the hopes the pancreas will heal enough the cat becomes diet controlled.

No math needed to compare your test results to the numbers given. That is backround data for understanding why your tests may differ from the vet and that it is OK (Celsius or Fahrenheit are both correct).
 
OK, I (think) I'm getting a handle on this. at 1+ he is at 197. I guess I am skipping tonight's dose as well. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the help! you all are keeping me sane...
 
Stall 30 minutes without feeding and re-test. You may be able to shoot a lower dose.
 
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