Tony - Introduction and dry food question

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Vickie01

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Hello - I am very new to this board, and to feline diabetes in general.

My 16-year-old cat, Tony, was diagnosed with diabetes about a month ago. He is currently on 3 units of PZI insulin twice a day. Someone on another thread asked me why he was on 3 units already and my answer is - I don't know! The vet started him at 1 unit twice a day, then bumped it to 2, and now to 3. I take him in to be re-tested on Monday so the dosage may change again. He does not have any other major health issues and is not overweight. He did have skin allergies for most of his life - hot spots - which were treated as they occurred with cortizone shots. Also, within the past year, he has been getting a lot of UTIs.

I have a question about diet. I asked my vet if I should feed him anything special, and first the vet said no, then he said diet is important. He gave me a prescription for Royal Canin's diabetic dry food, but when I read the ingredients, it doesn't seem like it is very good. I have followed the suggestions elsewhere on this board and have given him the Fancy Feast classic wet food, which he likes. He also loves the Weruva wet food, particularly the ones with pumpkin.

He's not a big dry food eater, but I do like to have it available to him. I keep seeing conflicting reports - yes, it's OK to give dry, no never give dry. If anybody can shed some light on this, or recommend the right questions to ask my vet, I'd appreciate it.

Some of the dry foods he has liked are: Purina Pro Plan Senior and Science Diet Senior. I also recently tried him with Blue Buffalo Wilderness Duck formula, and he has nibbled at that as well. I tried that since it bills itself as a high protein/low carb dry food.

I appreciate any help that you can offer. This is all so confusing!
 
First of all, welcome! Feline diabetes can be a really confusing, frustrating thing to deal with at first (boy, was I there!) but with knowledge and time, it gets a lot better.

Are you home testing his blood glucose? Switching to a low carb canned food (the best diet you can give a diabetic cat) can really bring his BG numbers down, so home testing is super important. Why did your vet up his dose like that? Was it based on BG tests/curves he did? 3 units seems really high to me. Too much really. We started on 2 units of Prozinc and are already down to .4 units after switching to no dry food, all LC canned.

Personally, I'd eliminate all dry food, but to make a complete switch to LC canned food, you really need to be home testing so you can watch his numbers and head off any possible hypo that might occur from that much insulin. You say you like to have dry food available for him - is there a particular reason for that? If you're worried about the wet food drying out, a lot of us add extra water to it, which not only helps our guys get more fluids, but keeps the food moist longer.
 
Some use Evo dry for their diabetics.



It is kind of heretic to use dry food here, it is not what we recommend, but in spite of that my Simba is getting dry food, as mid-day snack and during the night. I had to do that because he woke me up and blackmailed me with pushing down things and tearing all my paper and books to pieces. After 2 years of doing that I was exhausted, and gave him back some of his dry food. I balance the higher carbs he then gets and higher blood sugar, with a higher insulin dose following the bgs. So sometimes we have to be realistic with the situation at hand.


If you give Tony dry food, you should home test his bgs so you learn how much it accounts for in bgs.


Ask your vet for copies of his/hers blood glucose curves they do when you drop Tony off there. The numbers in the charts will reveal why he is having 1, 2 and 3 Units of insulin.

Also tell your vet you want to learn how to hometest. That is crucial in good regulation of the diabetes.



The UTI's Tony been having of late, could be due to his diabetes. It is not uncommon that diabetics get frequent urine tract infections.


Others will come along here and help you out better than I have.
 
Welcome!

The best authority we have regarding dry food is Dr. Lisa Pierson, DVM. She has a wonderful website that explains why wet food is best for every cat, but particularly diabetics. She also has great tips for transitioning from dry to wet. Http://www.catinfo.org

When we switched Oliver from dry to wet, his blood glucose levels went down 100 points overnight. So we do recommend that if you are going to start feeding wet, that you also start testing at home so you can stay on top of the bg levels.
 
Pearl's numbers go up if she has even grain free dry, so dry is really last option. I can understand some people needing to use it as some cats are nearly impossible to get on all canned but if he isn't even a big fan of it, I would sure not feed it! I think your most important next step is to learn to hometest on your own so you have control over what is going on. You will be amazed at how much more empowered you feel and how much you will learn about what is going on in your cat.
 
My Maui had very similar issues all her life - she was treated with all kinds of shampoos, cortisone shots, etc. It wasn't until she got diabetes and I found this board that I learned the dangers of dry food.

In Maui's case, it turned out whatever is in dry food (doesn't matter brand or quality) it caused her skin issues. Once I transitioned her and my others to wet food only - her skin cleared up, the itchiness stopped, the fur loss stopped, dandruff disappeared and her fur became plush and silky again.

If you learn to home test, you will be in better control to determine just how much insulin your cat needs. You will also save yourself lots of $ by not having to go to the vet for BG tests. Not to mention that taking the cat to the vet for a BG test will not give you an accurate reading - due to vet stress, cat not being in home environment etc.

Below is my typical welcome message - hopefully you will find this information useful:

WELCOME, this forum is a great place to gain knowledge and really learn how to manage feline diabetes. By doing just a few things each day (that really won't take up much of your time at all), you won't need to worry about losing your precious cat, not where feline diabetes is concerned.

There are three key factors to managing diabetes: food/nutrition, home testing and insulin

1) Feline Nutrition: Now, as far as diet - definitely dump the dry food (if you are feeding any) and if the vet recommends purchasing prescription food like DM just say "no thank you". ALL cats, and especially those with diabetes, do best on a species appropriate diet that is high in protein and low in carbs. Dry food DOES NOT fit that bill and DM food, even canned, just really isn't that great as far as quality. Most here on FDMB feed low carb/high protein canned, raw bought from a pet store or they make there own.

Here great links, one is to a food chart put together by one of our board members that breaks down the carb % and protein % of most of the commercial brand foods. You want to keep the carb % below 10% and around 7% is great. The other link is to a site by a vet "Dr. Lisa DVM" ... who also posts on this board from time to time ... there is in-depth info. there about many things, including nutrition and how to make raw food.
Nutrition/food info

The good thing with feeding your diabetic cat this way, is that it is ALSO good for any non-diabetic cat too. All your cats can safely eat the same food without worry and it may save you some costs and headaches of having to do separate feedings and keeping track of what they are eating.


2. Home testing: It is impossible to convey the value of testing your cat's BG (blood glucose) level at home. Some vets will "suggest" this, but most won't even mention it. They will send you home with insulin and an amount to shoot and maybe some instructions about hypoglycemia (blood sugar dropping to a dangerously low level).

Well, the thing is, human diabetics don't EVER give themselves insulin without checking there BG to make sure it is safe to do so, so why shouldn't it be the same for our kitties. Here on FDMB it is. You will notice that the vast majority of people here test their cat's BG at least 2x/day (before giving each shot to make sure the level is safe enough) and periodically at other times to see how the cat is responding to the current dose. We use a human glucometer, test strips and lancets - which are all very readily available and easy to use.

Our kitties get lots of love and treats for "putting up" with this and most of them actually come out to be tested on their own 'cause they want those treats . Here is a collection of great links that "Carolyn and Spot" pulled together about hometesting. See what you think ... it truly is the best way to not only keep Your cat safe but also really get a handle on this disease and help him to live a healthy life with FD (feline diabetes).

Home testing Links

3. Insulin: There are several types of insulin available. Many people, myself included use Lantus or Levimer both of which are great insulins. They are gentle insulin and given twice (BID) per day in 12 hour increments. Or you could also choose PZI or the new version called Prozinc.

Please read up on the insulins available, here is a link to the Insulin Support Groups:

Insulin Support Groups

However, one caveat and again this shows how these three things are inter-related:

If you are feeding dry food or even a high carb food, BEFORE removing these foods, please make sure of your insulin dose as it will most likely need to be reduced, so as to avoid a possible hypoglycemic situation due to the removal of the dry/high carb foods that will lower the BG’s and reduce the amount of insulin required. Again, another reason why home testing is important.

I know this all seems like a lot, and that's because it is ... there is a learning curve here. But as long as you are determined and keep at it, you will have it down before you know it and you'll be seeing the results in Your cat' overall health and happiness. Ask all the questions you can think of - that's why we are here!

Also, if you haven't done it yet, take the time and fill out your profile. It will help when others come on and read this. Also, let us know where you live - city/state as there are probably people in your area who can provide on the ground support and help you to learn home testing, etc.
 
The Expensive Side

Merrick BG
Beef*
Chicken*
Turkey*

Wellness
Beef & Chicken*
Chicken*
Turkey*

Merrick
Cowboy Cookout*

Evo
EVO 95% Beef*
EVO 95% Chicken & Turkey*
EVO 95% Duck
EVO 95% Venison*

Nature’s Variety
Raw beef*
Raw Chicken & Turkey*


The Cheaper Side

Fancy Feast Classic only
Chicken
Beef & Liver
Turkey and Giblets
Beef
Beef & Chicken
Chopped Grill

Special Kitty (Walmart)
Mixed Grill
Prime Entrée
Super Supper
Turkey & Giblets

Sophisticat (Petsmart)
Beef & Liver
Beef Stew
Country Style
Elegant Entrée
Mixed Grill
Turkey & Giblets

Sophisticat Adult Supreme (Petsmart)
Supreme Beef & Chicken
Supreme Beef
Supreme Gourmet Chicken
Supreme Turkey & Giblets

Friskie’s Classic Pate
Country Style Dinner*
Liver & Chicken Dinner
Poultry Platter
Supreme Supper
Turkey & Giblets

Friskie’s Special Diet
Beef & Chicken*
Beef & Liver*


* also lower in phosphorous (<250 mg) (important for kitties with chronic kidney disease)


Good luck!!!

Jenny & Sue
 
Hi and welcome. Just want to be another voice in encouraging you to learn to hometest your kitty's blood glucose. Like you, every week we drove across town to the vet for a glucose test at what the doc figured was the nadir. And based on that, he'd raise the insulin dose. After five weeks of this and up to over 4 units of insulin twice a day, thankfully we found this website and began hometesting only to learn the nadir was later than the vet thought and Yoshi was dropping into hypo range (30!). Despite informing the vet of how low Yoshi was dropping (Yoshi had posted a 60 bg at the last vet check), he advised me to raise the dose; but I chose not to based on the info and advice we received here. He was a good vet, just not experienced with FD.
 
When my cat was diagnosed in November, my vet put him on 4 units of Lantus and also recommended WD dry food. Thankfully, I found this website and started hometesting after receiving my newbie kit. The first time I tested him, he was only 40 and this was right before I was to inject him with another 4 units of Lantus. I ended up not giving him the insulin that night and decreased his dose to 1 unit immediately, based on the great comments from everyone on FDMB. It has only been 2 months, and Simon is now down to .25 dose of insulin and is doing great. I have also cut out all dry food and only feed him canned. Not only is he feeling better and his numbers are better, he is more active and seems happier. Please start home testing and you can always ask questions on FDMB -- there are so many people here to help you with such great first-hand experience.
 
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