Tommy- recently diagnosed

[tommytn]

Tommy, my 7 year old male, was diagnosed with diabetes just over 2 weeks ago. My vet immediately put him on Humulin N. He gets 3 units twice a day. At first, I had my doubts, but have done my fair share of research. I feel like he's doing ok. He is still relatively active. He's taken to the routine of eating and shots quite well. I have been doing at home testing. He's even pretty good about that. The problem I'm having is that the humulin N doesn't seem to be lasting long enough. I give him his first shot around 6:15 am, then again at 6:15 pm. When I test his bg level before each shot, it is always very high (usually 500+). I have tested him about every hour on Saturdays. The shots are only lasting about 6-8 hours. My vet just recommended Humulin70/30, but he has never used it before. He was not very confident, therefore, I'm not comfortable making that switch without proper knowledge. Does anyone have any recommendations?

I have started Tommy on a canned food diet. He eats between 1.5- 3 oz of canned food 4 times a day. At the moment, he still has access to dry food, since I have multiple cats. My hope is that I can get him regulated, and keep him with me and healthy for years to come. I am open to any suggestions people can contribute.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Sue and Oliver (GA)]

Good for you doing the research to help your Tommy. We do feed wet lo carb. The vet on this site explains why wet lo carb is best for all cats, but especially diabetics.( www.catinfo.org )Many members here have changed all their cats over to wet with resulting shiny coats, needed weight loss and better health for everyone.

Humulin is a difficult insulin, as you have seen. It is the rare cat that has a duration of longer than 6-8 hours. That makes it very difficult to regulate with. We are in favor of milder, longer lasting insulins like Lantus, Levemir and PZI. You can check out the Insulin support groups for each insulin here: viewforum.php?f=5 You might read the stickies on the top of each of the pages and read through some of the threads to see how people are doing with them.

It is wonderful that you are hometesting. That is the best thing you can do to keep Tommy safe.

A few people here used Humulin in the past. Sometimes a cat will get longer duration but most people end up changing to another insulin. Here is some info on Humulin: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=303

Keep reading and asking questions. We will be glad to help in any way we can.

 

[Deb415andNikki]

Hi Tommy's parent, and, of course, you too, sweet Tommy,

Well gosh... Welcome to the place you never wanted to be; but, will be blessed for having found.

I had experience with Humulin N. Rather, Gizzie did. She didn't like it and it didn't like her. Think of a roller coaster ride -- up and down and up and down -- and you pretty much get the picture...

And, you're right, Tommy's parent (see how nicely your name would fit in here?), N doesn't last long enough.

The reason is twofold. First, it's a fast-acting insulin. Second, cats metabolize insulin about twice as fast as humans. I know, it's hard to imagine a precious creature who basically naps 16 hours a day metabolizing anything twice as fast as humans...

Levemir, Lantus, and/or PZI are much better insulins for cats as they are gentler and longer lasting. Just step away from Humulin insulins, okay? If Humulin U and/or L were still being manufactured, I might say otherwise...

Here's the great news! You are being so proactive by home testing! YAY! And, bonus! You have changed his diet, which is why it's so great you're being so proactive by home testing! Diet alone can have a major impact on BGs... And, others will disagree with me -- except those who came to know and love my quirky furry food girl, Giz -- I humbly suggest you still give Tommy access to the dry food. Until, you can switch insulin and maybe figure out a way to deny him access, which may never happen given your multiple cat circumstances or budget... Then again, if you can swing it financially, all your multiple cats will benefit from wet food!

But, you know what, Tommy's parent (name... helpful...), you have multiple cats. Tommy is extra sweet. You have a life. You can always shoot around what he's comfortable eating -- and you are comfortable feeding. Why? Because you home test!!!!

Levemir, Lantus, PZI. Step away from Humulin N. Keep being proactive!

Love and encouraging hugs,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, forever dancing in my heart...

 

[Lisa and Witn (GA)]

Hi and welcome to FDMB. You have already received some great advice, so I won't repeat it.

The thing that concerns me is his current dose of 3 units. Three units of any insulin is a high starting dose, especially for a fast acting insulin as Humulin. I am concerned that your cat could very easily become hypoglycemic, especially now that he is eating a low carb diet.

I suggest that you ask your vet to prescribe a longer acting insulin such as Lantus, Levemir or PZI. Also start back at 1 unit. Most cats only need 1 to 2 units twice a day. Before increasing the dosage, keep at the current dose for at least one week to give your cat's body time to adjust to the dose. Then if you need to increase only do it by 1/2 unit. By using this method, you reduce the chance of hypoglycemia and also can find the optimal dose that works best for Tommy.

If your vet does prescribe either Lantus or Levemir, ask for the prescription for either the pens or cartridges. The initial cost is higher than a vial, but you get 5 of them in the box. That will be enough insulin to last almost a year. With a vial, you end up throwing a lot of it away because it becomes ineffective long before you finish the vial. If the script is for Lantus pens, there is a $25 coupon in the Supply Closet to help with the cost.

 

[Kelly & Oscar]

Humulin is considered to be a short acting insulin also, and probably will not give you any different numbers than the N you are using. Humulin N and 70/30 seem to be popular insulin choices for dogs since they metabolize insulin slower than cats. Like others have said, you need to ask for a longer acting insulin that will give you a duration of around 12 hours. Those work best for kitties due to their quick metabolism of insulin.

 

[Larry and Kitties]

Using Humulin 70/30 is in the wrong direction it consists of a combination of N and R insulin with R acting faster (and shorter duration than) N.

 

[tommytn]

Thank you everyone! I read a lot on the Humulin 70/30 yesterday, and by the end of my reading, I knew that wasn't the way to go. My vet had me going to Walmart to get the insulin. (I was very shocked to learn that I didn't need a prescription.) Can I get Lantus or Levemir at Walmart? I will be stopping off at my vet on my way home from work today to discuss the new findings. We are basically learning this together. When he suggested the 70/30, he did say to drop back to 2 units. Will that be the case with Lantus and/or Levemir? Luckily for me, we are on spring break next week so i will be home most of the time to do the hourly testing. I figured it would be best to switch him when I can be there with him. Is there anything I should know about making the switch between insulins?

The food... I am trying to get all 3 cats to eat the canned. The two males have taken quite well to it. The female doesn't seem to like it as much. So far I have been buying the Classic versions of Fancy Feast. They seem to be getting a little bored with a few of the flavors. I've been trying to keep the fish varieties to a minimum. I've read that they aren't the best. They do like them though, so I give them the fish ones every few days. What are some lo-carb canned foods that work for your cats?

Thanks!

Christina

 

[Sue and Oliver (GA)]

If you are thinking Lantus or Levemir, read the stickies on their support group forums. This one tells you how and what to buy for Lantus/Levemir: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=151 If your vet has not worked with either insulin, you will want to read how it works: viewforum.php?f=9

Fish every few days is fine. Just not daily. You might mix the fish with the other flavors, or put FortiFlora on top:

Fortiflora per Dr Lisa
Try a product called FortiFlora. Most cats LOVE FortiFlora and this has recently become my favorite trick. This is a probiotic made by Purina but you are not going to use it for its probiotic properties. You are just going to use it as a flavor enhancer. The base ingredient in FortiFlora is animal digest - the very substance that makes dry food so very enticing to cats. The directions say to use 1 package/day - and you can use this much if you want to - but this amount is not usually necessary. You may only need ~1/4 of a package - or less - with part mixed into the food and part sprinkled on top of the food just as you would use salt and pepper on your own food.

Or you can put Bonito flakes or your cats' favorite lo carb treats on top.

 

[squeem3]

Can I get Lantus or Levemir at Walmart?

Yes, you can get either insulin at any Human pharmacy. You will need a prescription from the vet. Instead of the 10 ml bottle, ask your vet to specify the prescription for the either the Lantus SoloStar pens or the Lantus OptiClick cartridges or the Levemir FlexPens.

The 10 ml bottle is not worth it, for a cat anyways. It tends to lose effectiveness after a month or so and you're throwing a barely used bottle away. The pens and cartridges are much most cost effective. Both types come in a box of 5 which is at least a 5 month supply. The initial cost is more ($150-$200 or so for the pens and cartridges vs $100 or so for a bottle) but if you break down the cost per pen or cartridge, it makes more sense money-wise.

You don't need pen needles or an insulin pen. If the pharmacist tries to sell you them, don't bother. You don't use a pen or cartridge the way a Human diabetic would. For a cat, you just stick the insulin syringe needle right into the rubber stopper at the end of the pen or cartridge and draw up a dose just like you would with a bottle. See pictures below:

What are some lo-carb canned foods that work for your cats?

My cat liked the various EVO, Nature's Variety Instinct, a few of the fish ProPlan, GO! Natural, SOrganics, and one or two other brands. Inexpensive Fancy Feast, Friskies, and other brands are just as good.

 

[Deb415andNikki]

Hi Christina, and, of course, you too, sweet Tommy,

Since you are both home testing and considering his recent diet change, and now a new insulin, I'd humbly suggest starting at 1 unit, maybe 1.5 at most... But, do check the Levemir or Lantus forums, depending on which insulin you decided to use. And, no, darling girl, you don't have to poke his ears every hour...

I'm not sure what state you live in, I'm in NJ; but, while we don't need scrips for Humulin insulins, I think we do for Lantus or Levemir. Definitely need a vet scrip for PZI.

I love your enthusiasm! Tommy's a lucky boy!

As for the food, you can try FF chunky chicken, turkey, and/or chopped grill. All under 10% carbs, unless things have changed. Nikki often likes a change from the classic pate FF versions... Dear Sue, thank you for the FortiFlora/Dr. Lisa suggestion! Nik's been a little food bored lately... My bad, as she was stalking me when I was eating a turkey sandwich and I shared a bit of the turkey. Now, she hates tough food love...

Also, dear Christina, you can try sprinkling a bit of parmesan cheese on the food. It stinkifies it. Maybe your female furry is part Italian...

Love and continued countless encouraging hugs for you all,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, smiling on us all from The Bridge...