Toby and slight inappetence - when to be concerned?

[Becky and Toby]

Hello, my cat, Toby, is 15 years old and was diagnosed in May of this year. He's been doing very well over the last few weeks (his numbers can be seen here). They have been a just a little bit higher over the last couple of days, but I've been informed this morning that he's had a 'little' USO, which I can only imagine is the cause.

Yesterday, I had a couple of incidences of him pawing my hand away when I scratched his chin - he usually loves his chin rubbed, but whilst it sent up a flag, I assumed he was a bit grumpy because someone in particular who he's decided he doesn't like had apparently picked him up. I checked him for ketones just yesterday, and got a negative - I do understand that the strips don't test for all types. I noticed he didn't seem to have pooped all day, but he was showing no signs of straining so I kept an eye on him.
He ate normally at night, sat on my lap and accepted the chin scratches, and generally seemed normal.

This morning, he ate a little Butcher's Classic at shot time, and around half a can of a Gourmet Gold pate at around +2. He accepted chin scratches, but still hadn't pooped. We checked his blood at +4, offered him his usual post-check treat, and he didn't want it. I offered him the rest of the pate, and he didn't want that, either. Whilst it isn't the hunger strike of the century (I probably wouldn't be concerned if not for the other little things going on too), it really isn't like Toby to do that - if you put a treat in front of him, it disappears. I checked the trays, and found a couple of small, dry-looking bits of poop. We decided to give him a laxative, just in case.

I think he might be drinking a little more than normal, but really can't tell if that's in my head because I'm a little on edge. He seems to have been licking his lips a little, too, but he had some teeth removed a few years ago because he was getting 'long in the tooth' and they were digging into his lips, so he sometimes gets his lips caught in the gaps in a way that's very reminiscent of Elvis anyway.

Do I need to do anything other than watching him like a hawk?

Thank you.

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Hi Becky,

The lip-licking can be a symptom of nausea. Has Toby been sick at all?
Or could he have a dental problem? (You said that on one occasion he hadn't liked being touched under the chin?)
Or could it be a furball? That can certainly put them off eating, and could cause constipation too... But if it is that then hopefully the laxative should ease that through.

When a cat is feeling off colour - for whatever reason - the blood glucose levels can rise.

Does Toby seem otherwise 'unwell' at all? Is he washing his fur OK? Peeing OK? Is he still sociable or is he hiding away from people..?

Regarding ketones, yes, certainly wise to keep checking for that, although with the better numbers Toby is having lately ketones are much less likely. Does Toby's breath smell normal? (Breath that smells of pear drops/acetone would indicate higher ketone levels).

Cats, eh? They DO worry us, don't they...?

Sending 'feel better' vibes for Toby, and a reassuring (((hug))) for you.

Edited to add: Is Toby an outdoor cat who has access to grass? Grass is thought to be able to settle a cat's overly acidic stomach, and also helps them to up-chuck furballs or anything they may have eaten that has upset their stomach... :-|

Eliz

 

[Becky and Toby]

Hello again Elizabeth :smile:

Yeah, that's why the licking concerned me a little, but he hasn't been sick at all. I forgot to say that we had a good look in his mouth after the pulling his chin away business, but everything seems - in our amateur opinions, of course - okay. He's still not the best at cleaning himself, but I suppose he could have a furball simply because he's getting better at it - no signs of trying to bring one up, though.

He's still peeing fine, but it's not been long enough to say if he's off his cleaning routine yet... give him a week :razz: His routine today has been the same as usual... windowsill around people in the morning, a nice long nap upstairs in the afternoon... I won't know for another hour or two if he's feeling sociable, although when I've been upstairs and visited him, I've gotten a bit of an audible greeting and we've had some chin rubs.

His breath is perfectly fine. I thought his pinkish nose looked a little bit whiter, but checked his gums and some pictures of his nose, and that seems to be in my paranoid head.

They do! Thank you very much for the advice and the well wishes

He's an 'outdoor' cat that can't be bothered with it anymore. He has a hydrangea that he likes to go out and sniff (and check on through the window :lol: ) and he'll nibble some grass then, but I think he'd call the RSPCA himself if I took him out there now - it's dark and cold!

(A little aside that ties in the worrying about cats and the grass... one of my other moggies had a month long cough that antibiotics didn't seem to be touching, and about a week ago we were at the point of discussing a camera down the throat and chest x-rays. She must have heard all of that, because not long after getting her home she had a massive coughing fit and a blade of grass was poking out of her nose! It turned out to be about three inches long. Cough went right away, and thinking back she did vomit grass around the time that the coughing started. Pets, honestly :razz: )

 

[Diana&Tom]

Hi Becky, these cats do indeed worry us and keep us on our toes! Eliz has covered all bases I'd say so try not to worry too much, just keep a close(r) eye on Toby for a day or two, he might well return to normal very soon. I think our senses are heightened when we are caring for a cat with FD or anything else, but if you think about it, how many humans or animals do you know who are always 100% predictable in their behaviour? Maybe Toby's just not particularly hungry today.

And ref your little aside at the end of your second post - the exact same thing happened to my Tom. Just getting the basket out to take him to the vet and ... Cough of the century, out came a furball. Oh the relief (for all of us ;-)

Here's hoping Toby will be back to normal soon. Keep us posted.

Diana

 

[Becky and Toby]

Hi Diana,

I know exactly what you mean - we know, rationally, that it doesn't mean much but... quietly panic anyway! They just seem so fragile sometimes. I've had a bit of a problem in general with getting used to Toby's lesser appetite, reassuring myself that it just means he's not ravenously hungry like he should never have been. It's especially hard because he certainly hasn't put on weight as fast as I've seen others report... but I put that down to his age, mainly, and he has put a little on.

It's quite the trick, isn't it? :razz: I can only imagine how an incredibly tickly throat feels to a cat, when they can't understand what's going on...

Thank you! I just went up to see him a few minutes ago and he seemed to be waiting for an escort, sitting up awake :lol: He's come downstairs with me and had a little to eat, and now it's sit on my lap and get in the way time. Wonderful

 

[Diana&Tom]

I'm the world's worst panicker when it comes to my pets, so I do understand how you feel, Becky. It is a trick, you're right, to try and remain rational whilst being alert to any signs that things do need to be checked out. I don't think any of us have really found the answer, we just lurch from day to day and cope as best we can. You'll have heard about the importance of treats for yourself as well as Toby, I hope - these are seriously important. A glass of wine is an essential in times of stress. Or chocolate, or whatever else floats your boat. I don't suppose it matters what it is, it's the displacement activity of going off to find it! ;-)

Diana

 

[Becky and Toby]

You know, it's very possible that I'm not spending enough time on that step... I'll definitely have to work on it

 

[Becky and Toby]

Just a quick note to say Toby is 12.7 preshot this evening - much better. Hopefully it was just the USO pushing him up. He's looking pretty perky now too :smile:

 

[Diana&Tom]

Wonderful!

 

[Becky and Toby]

Wonderful!

He's currently tucking into some more meat, with enough enthusiasm that he's got it on his nose :lol:

Thanks again for the support!

 

[Becky and Toby]

Toby seems even better today, but his numbers are still up a little. I'm eying the Gourmet Gold suspiciously, because he's been eating a fair bit more of that this week (I'm pretty sure he saw me typing about how fussy he isn't, and only then realised that that's an option...). He has some Bozita and some Catz Finefood on its way, but in the meantime I can only attempt to get other food into him :razz:

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Toby seems even better today, but his numbers are still up a little. I'm eying the Gourmet Gold suspiciously, because he's been eating a fair bit more of that this week (I'm pretty sure he saw me typing about how fussy he isn't, and only then realised that that's an option...). He has some Bozita and some Catz Finefood on its way, but in the meantime I can only attempt to get other food into him :razz:

Becky, I'm SO pleased that Toby is feeling better! (And loving the pic of him. He looks an absolute darling.... :smile: )

I'll take a peek at the Gourmet Gold ingredients list and see if there's anything suspect.
And well done for ordering the Bozita and Catz Finefood. They are really, really popular with cats so hopefully Mr Tobes will appreciate them! ;-) And they might just bring his numbers down a tad too.... nailbite_smile

Eliz

 

[Becky and Toby]

Toby seems even better today, but his numbers are still up a little. I'm eying the Gourmet Gold suspiciously, because he's been eating a fair bit more of that this week (I'm pretty sure he saw me typing about how fussy he isn't, and only then realised that that's an option...). He has some Bozita and some Catz Finefood on its way, but in the meantime I can only attempt to get other food into him :razz:

Becky, I'm SO pleased that Toby is feeling better! (And loving the pic of him. He looks an absolute darling.... :smile: )

I'll take a peek at the Gourmet Gold ingredients list and see if there's anything suspect.
And well done for ordering the Bozita and Catz Finefood. They are really, really popular with cats so hopefully Mr Tobes will appreciate them! ;-) And they might just bring his numbers down a tad too.... nailbite_smile

Eliz

You know what they say about looks and deception :razz:

Thank you! I tried to do that myself, but I'm sure you're better informed than I am. I'm hoping it'll nudge him down a little, too, even if just to make his already-too-scared-to-shoot number a little lower. I picked up some better food for the dog, too... figured she should jump on the healthy eating train


I've had the realisation that Toby is drinking more, and it's very likely because less water goes into the Gourmet because it's already a pate and he's not big on soup... At least he keeps himself topped up then!

(I've also just witnessed him get comfy in the litter tray, notice I was in the kitchen, jump out and come and ask for food (making me worry that he was having difficulty going), only to then return to the litter tray after eating... Priorities, eh?)

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Hi Becky,

Just had a look at Toby's chart and see that the numbers are up a tad.
Actually there seem to be two things going on; firstly he seems be dropping slightly less from the shot, but secondly he's not getting the same duration from the shot. We're not seeing those nice long runs at the moment.

I hope you're not discouraged. It always seems to me that that the patterns of feline diabetes can be a bit like weather systems; there can be a lot of flux and change: Sometimes unexpectedly. The weather forecaster predicts sunshine, but maybe we get rain instead (especially in the UK!).

Sometimes rises in numbers can be fairly easily connected to a direct cause; the insulin has 'sparked out' (lost potency); there's been a change of food; the cat is unwell; there's a new cat next door causing stress, etc. (Any possibilities there?)
And sometimes the cause is much harder to pin down. Perhaps we're keeping the routine exactly the same but the cat's body is just using the insulin differently for some reason. (Bertie's numbers suddenly go up every year at end Oct/beginning of Nov... :roll: )

Oh, changing the subject; Re the Gourmet Gold pate, I had a look at the carb % and the ingredients list. It does seem low carb by looking at the 'typical analysis' figures but I see that it does contain 'derivatives of vegetable origin'. This is usually used as a bulking agent in pet food and could have a carbohydrate source, so if Toby is particularly carb-sensitive this might affect him.

Has he started on the new low carb foods yet...?

Eliz

 

[Becky and Toby]

I won't lie, I'm not at all happy to see it, but he's still doing so much better than he was... I have faith that we'll get there, and where we are now still ain't all that bad.
The insulin was only opened around a fortnight ago, he seems to be feeling pretty good in general right now, and there's been no changes in his day to day life. I'm not totally convinced on the food, however. The Gourmet is off the menu now, but only last night did I realise that there's another suspect in the form of his post-shot treats. We dropped the ball and got a slight variation of them, instead of the exact same, and went ahead and assumed that it wouldn't be an issue. Well, ta-da, "various sugars". Sugar for a sugarcat nailbite_smile They're off the menu now, too, so hopefully it will make a difference. If not, I'll go ahead and assume he's pulling a Bertie and topping up the insulin in time for Christmas, and dose him accordingly :mrgreen:

He's tried the Bozita so far (that's all he's eating right now, in fact), and it seems to have convinced him he's a hunter :lol: A definite yes from him. The thing is, with all of this going on, my "Try and be braver with the dosing" is out of the window. What if it's a bit of a 'false' number because of the treats? What about if he experiences a drop from the Bozita? nailbite_smile I'll give him a few days of definitely sticking to his low carbs, and then work on it... at least he's in okay numbers for now.

Anyway, sorry, that ended up a bit long-winded. I really appreciate the interest in the little monster, thank you :smile:

 

[Diana&Tom]

Hi Becky, well, you're starting to see why this gets called 'the sugar dance', in other words it can be one step forward, two steps back.. Or the other way round, and infinite variations! Strictly Come Dancing has nothing on FD ;-)

Seriously though, don't think that what you're experiencing is unusual. As we have said before, there are many factors that can upset a previous response/pattern, and we may well have no idea what some of those things are, let alone any control. But don't be disheartened, you're doing so well, and soon you will learn to expect and deal with the unexpected. It's just how it is.

Waltzing off now, wishing you well.....

Diana

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

...Strictly Come Dancing has nothing on FD...

Ah, talking of 'Strictly Come Dancing', who do you think is going to win???
(Ooops, forgot I was on an FD forum for a moment there... :lol: )

Becky, I think your idea of trying the lower carb food for a few days (and seeing if Toby's numbers improve) sounds like a very good plan indeed. :smile:

Eliz

 

[Diana&Tom]

Eliz, ref SCD - Abby, I'd say!

 

[Becky and Toby]

Hi Becky, well, you're starting to see why this gets called 'the sugar dance', in other words it can be one step forward, two steps back.. Or the other way round, and infinite variations! Strictly Come Dancing has nothing on FD ;-)

Seriously though, don't think that what you're experiencing is unusual. As we have said before, there are many factors that can upset a previous response/pattern, and we may well have no idea what some of those things are, let alone any control. But don't be disheartened, you're doing so well, and soon you will learn to expect and deal with the unexpected. It's just how it is.

Waltzing off now, wishing you well.....

Diana

Aye, and Toby can move faster than me... the advantage of four paws

Thank you :smile:


Glad to hear it, Eliz. I'll accept it if it makes no difference, but here's hoping anyway :razz:

 

[Deb & Wink]

ohmygod_smile You sure do have to read those food labels carefully to winkle out any ingredients that may be carbs or sugar in disguise. It's a challenge for sure.

 

[Becky and Toby]

ohmygod_smile You sure do have to read those food labels carefully to winkle out any ingredients that may be carbs or sugar in disguise. It's a challenge for sure.

Indeed =/ Not that I can blame that in this case... "various sugars" wasn't much of a disguise :lol: It was just a knee-jerk thing after being so used to shopping for cat's likes, I guess. I've learnt my lesson ohmygod_smile

 

[Becky and Toby]

We've done a little better today. Not quite as good as pre-pinks, but better. I'll give it a couple more days.

 

[TheBowHuntress]

How's Toby appetite?

 

[Becky and Toby]

How's Toby appetite?

His appetite is good now, it has been since later in the day that I posted this (the 7th) - my continuing concern was just that his numbers were higher, but that seems to be food-related rather than illness-related :smile:

 

[Becky and Toby]

Toby got an accidental .25 when he should have gotten a .5, which makes things awkward to monitor, but he seems to be coming down otherwise. My poor partner left me asleep because I've been running off very little and have an ear infection, but he's not too far ahead himself and his sleepy-brain is paranoid, it seems. On the bright side, Toby's drops from .25 seem to be quite consistent.

(I feel bad spamming this board but no one posts in the Caninsulin, etc, one... maybe I should switch insulins :razz: )

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Hi Becky,

"Spamming"? Ha=ha! :lol:
You are absolutely right to post questions on this (the main health) forum for exactly the reason you mention - that there are very few posts in the Caninsulin/Vetsulin forum.
And if at any time you think your posts aren't getting enough attention just start a new thread. As someone else on this forum says, "it's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease" around here...

Accidentally giving a tad less insulin is no problem. ;-)
Toby's numbers do seem to have improved over the last couple of days, don't they? And he seems to be having a fairly consistent response too - no big swings in numbers (touch-wood/anti-jinx).

I'm sorry to hear that you're unwell, Becky, and do so hope that you're feeling better soon. Here's a hug for ya - :YMHUG: And a nice hot drink -

Do take good care of yourself. Keep warm and snug and get plenty of rest.

Eliz

 

[Becky and Toby]

Hi Becky,

"Spamming"? Ha=ha! :lol:
You are absolutely right to post questions on this (the main health) forum for exactly the reason you mention - that there are very few posts in the Caninsulin/Vetsulin forum.
And if at any time you think your posts aren't getting enough attention just start a new thread. As someone else on this forum says, "it's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease" around here...

Accidentally giving a tad less insulin is no problem. ;-)
Toby's numbers do seem to have improved over the last couple of days, don't they? And he seems to be having a fairly consistent response too - no big swings in numbers (touch-wood/anti-jinx).

I'm sorry to hear that you're unwell, Becky, and do so hope that you're feeling better soon. Here's a hug for ya - :YMHUG: And a nice hot drink -

Do take good care of yourself. Keep warm and snug and get plenty of rest.

Eliz

It's not the questions that bother me, it's the little updates and not wanting to make a thread too long. I'll bear that in mind, though... new thread when it's something that needs answers

He does seem to be doing better I'll give it another day or two and then take a shot at those +7s and +8s too. At first I didn't want to bother him more than I felt was necessary for his safety because he seemed a bit poorly, and then his numbers were too abnormal to be much help anyway.

Thank you :smile: Luckily for me, my partner's as helpful to me as he is to Tobes

EDIT: That PMPS :mrgreen: