tigger 16yrs newly diagnosed in manchester, uk.

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jessieanme

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been given insulin to inject my cat twice a day and not much else :?: he was eating for england before and losing weight should he still be eating as much even though he is getting insulin or am i not doing it properly confused_cat help on this would be much appreciated um also not been told to change his diet or check his sugar levels or anything, just to inject him back of neck, :? which i have just read on internet that that is the worst place to inject cause circulation is very poor there :!:
 
Re: um newly diagnosed

First, welcome to the site. I will reply to your immediate post, but others will also be along to provide more info once you have replied.

There are some details that need to be known before much can be said.
1. What insulin are you using.
2. What dose are you giving and what times.
3. Are you home testing and using what type of meter.
4. What type of food are you feeding.
5. How is your cat acting now, and before learning of the diabetes.
6. Where are you located, so we will know if anyone is near you and in the same time zone.

There are many other questions but that's the main ones right now.

OK for the eating question now. Diabetics likely will eat more until they are regulated as the body is not able to process the foods properly to get the nutrients needed. So, kitty does not get good stuff and thinks still hungy. Losing weight is a sign that many have - I would guess that it's related to poor processing of foods in the body among other things.
When my two were first dx, I started them on insulin and they ate like maniacs. Oliver was eating around 30oz of food a day and Shadoe not far behind with 20oz or so. I was buying food all the time and they were inhaling it!
Now, they are much better and eat less than half that amount each day.

As for what you are feeding, get rid of ALL DRY FOODS. You want to be feeding LOW CARB foods. I don't know where you are located but we usually refer to Binky's list as several foods are listed including the carb %. You basically want to go with pate types, none of the gravies as that's where the evil carbs can be found. Who told you not to change the diet and what are you feeding now? If it's some expensive vet rx food, of course the vet would say stick with that food!
here's the list if you want to look up some foods. I also included another link with feeding info.
Binky’s Food Lists
Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basics of Feline Nutrition


OK now for the injection location. There is absolutely nothing wrong with injecting at the scruff of the neck. You may have been told poor circulation but all I know is that it's the most common spot and the dispersing is fine. Others may inject on the flank, the sides of the cat, but many do NOT like it. I tried ONLY ONCE on mine and she nearly took my hand off. I'll stick to the scruff. It works just fine.

You did not mention it, but it's vital for you to be home testing so that you can know how your cat is reacting to the insulin. I worry about a vet saying don't test .... if you had a diabetic child, would you just shoot insulin without knowing the child's BG? If you ask a human diabetic, they will tell you that they test themselves before giving insulin, so ... is your cat less important to keep safe? Testing may save your cat's life one day. There have been some hypo situations lately so you can read about them on the board.
Sure, your cat could look just fine, but many cats do not show signs of being hypo. You should have a HYPO kit prepared, just in case you need to use it.
Here are some links with info:
List of Hypo symptoms
How to treat HYPOS – They can kill! Print this out!
Jojo’s HYPO TOOLKIT

I forget what's all in this link, but there has to be something useful there for you!
New to the Group

So there we go.
Ask any question you have; they are all good to ask.
Please answer the above questions as not everyone has knowledge on all insulins. I have used caninsulin, Lantus, Levemir, and Humulin R, but there are others that follow entirely different protocols, so the type of insulin and the dose are very important.

Again, welcome to the site.
 
Re: um newly diagnosed

Welcome to FDMB Jessie

Most vets are not really current on feline diabetes treatment -- and they only study diabetes for a few hours in their 8 years of schooling -- and those few hours cover MANY species - not just cats.

Vets do not get much training in nutrition, so they mostly listen to the sales reps who are pushing "prescription" food.
Here is a website about Feline Nutrition published by a vet who specializes it in, Dr. Lisa Pierson, DVM
http://www.catinfo.org/
Especially for diabetes, the prescription food is not better than some canned foods - high protein, low carbohydrate canned (wet) food is best -- stick with flavors below 10% carbs according to Janet & Binky's Food Charts (the can labels do not have enough info)

I wrote a longer post, but Gayle hit the POST button before me, so I deleted most of the duplicate stuff
 
Re: um newly diagnosed

jessieanme said:
been given insulin to inject my cat twice a day and not much else :?: he was eating for england before and losing weight should he still be eating as much even though he is getting insulin or am i not doing it properly
Click to expand...


Insulin treatment isn't magic, that is, it doesn't work ASAP. It takes a bit of time to achieve good regulation. Until you find the correct insulin dose for your cat, he will continue to show some symptoms such as eating a lot of food. For now just free feed your cat.

The right diet will help. If your vet sold you some junky prsecription brand, you don't need it. There are many commericial brands of food you can feed, such as Fancy Feast and Friskies and Wellness. Ideally you want to feed "low carb" canned foods, not dry. Dry food is one reason why some cats end up diabetic. Read http://www.catinfo.org for reasons why dry food is bad (web site written by a vet who has interest in proper nutrition) and then check out the food charts: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html On the canend food charts, just look for foods that have a number 10 or less in the carb column. Feed your cat whateve brand he likes to eat and you can find in the local stores without going broke.

But.... before you go out and change the diet, what insulin is your cat getting and what is the dose? It can be a bit tricky to do a diet change if the insulin dose is too high and if you are not testing your cat's blood glucose levels daily.
 
Re: um newly diagnosed

Just wanted to say WELCOME to the best site on the planet! The links provided in the above posts are your best friends as are the people posting them. They ask the right questions and give the best advice. There is a wealth of information here and experienced people willing to share.

jeanne
 
Re: um newly diagnosed

thank you all for a very warm welcome,
1. the vet sent me home with a vile of INSUVET:-protamine zinc 100iu/ml
2.ive to inject twice a day 1ml, and due to work i have to do it at 1400hrs and 0200hrs
3.no i am not home testing, wasnt aware i had to
4.i have go-cat buscuits and purina buscuits out for nibbles all the time as i have 9 other cats aswell as tigger who is now the diabetic one, but the main meal time i feed them felix tastes as good as it look in different varieties pouches.
5.tigger was always a big cat, solid not flabby cat, an he would always eat his then go round every one elses and finish theirs aswell, but he has always done that since he moved in about 6 years ago, and a vet at the time said he was about 9 years old then, so that makes him about 15/16 now. he gradually lost weight at first, then started eating more and drinking alot of water even started using the litter trays which he never did he had always insisted he had to go out and would never do it in the litter tray, he was only sick once but had alot of diorreah? runs. he is not as ravenous now with the insulin, its bin about 10/11 days now, his bowel movements are not as loose now and sometimes almost normal but still little soft, am about to ring vet to make appointment for him to have blood test an when i get there have lots of questions thanks to everyones help on here,
6. we live in england, Bury, which is in manchester, lancashire county, and again i thank you for your responses,
 
Re: um newly diagnosed

Awesome to see your answers, but I am not familiar with that insulin and don't think the foods in the Binky's list will be of use to you.

So, because of your location, it would be best if you can put your location in the subject line of your first post in this thread. Click on Edit at the bottom right of your very first post, when you created this thread, and go to your Subject line which shows as "um newly diagnosed" and just change it to something like the following:

Tigger 16yrs newly diagnosed in manchester, lancashire county

That way, you will get the attention of others in your area who can help you with meters and testing and foods in your area.

The testing is pretty important because you want to know how well or poorly that Tigger is doing.
If his numbers stay high, you will want to increase his dose, but if his numbers are going low, you may want to reduce his dose. Cats are pretty sly, as you know, and they are not great at telling you what's going on with them!

I forgot to mention that a bit of a diet change will be quite helpful for Tigger; many cats are diet controlled diabetics and do not need insulin, but it may be tough for you with the others all eating dry foods. Still, it's not impossible! I have 2 diabetics and another civvie who eats ONLY dry. I keep the dry away from the diabetics for the most part, but one still tries to sneak a few pieces.

A change in your subject line of the first post in this thread should catch the eyes of others close to you.

Again, welcome to the site, and please DO ask any and all questions you may have.
 
Re: um newly diagnosed

the insulin you are using, is also known as prozinc - it's a newer insulin, but I've seen it work well for cats. It's also a more forgiving insulin, meaning if your schedule is such that you cannot stick with a strict 12/12 hour shooting schedule, this insulin will allow a bit more fluctuation than lantus or levimer.

what is very important regardless of what insulin you are using is learning how to home test. If you can go to the local pharmacy and pick up a human glucose meter and strips, we can help you learn how to test.

Think of it like this, if you were the one with diabetes, you wouldn't shoot insulin into yourself without knowing that it's safe to shoot. The doctor would show you and tell you that you must test yourself, then why is it different just because it's a cat? It's not really. It's just that vets don't seem to get this point and therefore, many don't suggest or promote home testing. (It's a worldwide problem, not one just in the UK).

Secondly, removing all dry food from your house will be ideal in helping not only your diabetic cat, but also your non-diabetic cats from the possibility of getting diabetes. Dry food of any kind is just not an ideal diet. Take a look at Dr. Lisa's website: www.catinfo.org and she explains why dry food is a poor food choice.

Of course, with 9 cats, you may need to compromise and feed some dry and if you do, then it's best to find a dry that has more meat than grains in it.

You can do this and we can help get you on the right path of this journey.
 
i talked to the vet but cause i have 10 cats and 3 dogs cant afford private vet care took him to rspca they not very helpful even though they have had £160.00 so far what can i do? i feel useless and very upset i dont know how to help him.
 
Hillary, I don't believe the insulin she is using is ProZinc........It is Insuvet PZI.......there is a difference. ProZinc has come about because of IDEXX being discontinued. She is in the UK and has Insuvet available to her.

Bovine
Insuvet PZI
Insuvet Protamine Zinc--pure beef U100 PZI insulin.Insuvet Protamine Zinc or Insuvet PZI is a PZI from Insuvet, similar to BCP's PZI above. Insuvet also makes two other veterinary insulins.
Schering-Plough Animal Health contracted CP Pharma to produce its Insuvet line of bovine insulins[21]. The Insuvet line was sold to Pfizer Animal Health and it is believed that Pfizer continues to contract CP/Wockhardt UK for their production. Some UK pet pharmacies offer both the Insuvet-branded and the Hypurin-branded insulins. The only difference here may be pricing.

Insuvet insulins are only available in the UK; the option for those in other countries is either importing from CP Pharma or, if you are in North America, the compounded PZI in various strengths available from BCP and VPOA (US) and Summit (Canada).
 
Hullo from Hastings!!

I'm sorry I didnt see your post until today (and I'm going away tomorrow)

Insuvet PZI is probably the best UK insulin for cats, its only one atom different from cats normal insulin.

FOOD

Any tinned food in JELLY is ideal.

You can work out the carbs in any food if you are good at maths. Look at the values. they probably look like this

Moisture 80%
Fat or oil 5%
Protein 10%

Add these together and take away from 100
and you get
100-95% =5% carbs

A mouse is the ideal food and comes in at 4% carbs

Most dry is about 50% carbs!

It would help all your cats if you fased out all dry.............. you done want any of them getting the dire beasties!

You have read about HYPO (too much insulin. too little food) I always kept a box of glucose powder in the cupboard, it costs about £1 a box and can be rubbed on the gums or syringed down............ if you have it handy the chances are you will never need it!

Oh, and Janet & Binky's list does have UK foods if you look for them

Hope this helps

Mary Hastings E. Sussex
 
Hi,

don't know if you have been back to the board, but wanted to say Felix 'as good as it looks' can be fab. It's 3.4% carbs and what I fed Lucky.
Some people say it raises bg's but Luks was beautifully regulated.

Would need to ditch the dry but also want to be hometesting.
Getting curves done at the vets is way more expensive, less accurate and usually more stress for your cat.

Glad that your vet at least started you only on one unit-some start much higher and run into trouble straight away.

Hometesting is easy and relatively inexpensive (courtesy of ebay). You have a better chance of getting kitty regukated or even diet controlled. Best thing is that all you cats go to wet food diet (you don't ned the science ,hills w/d, d/m stuff it's expensive and not as good as commercially available catfood).

UK vets are woefully behind on FD treatment and because of the law in UK vets can't as a general rule (the odd one has managed it, including us) prescribe the human insulins (Lantus/Levemir which have had amazing results in terms of regulation and remission). Prozinc has had positive comments and definitely better than caninsulin!

If you do want to learn to hometest, please post and we can help advise.
 
Welcome to the best place for DX cats .This place is great and if you get to hometest you take control of your kitty`s health. Only took 3 months to get my guy off the insulin. So welcome aboard and good luck. This place has the answes to almost all of your questions. Use you subject line with ADVICE < DOSE Etc. sending lots of beautiful healing green light for Tigger....Kath
 
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