Thumper update 6/16

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Barbara

Barbara

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I just talked to the ER again. They said she's doing good, eating & BG was 140 last time they checked!!! They are still monitoring her & are gonna repeat blood work today. I'm still suspicious something else is going on. They sent the xrays my vet took (he had given me a copy to take to the cardiologist) out to a radiologist & they don't see any problems with fluid around the heart. My next question will be if she wasn't DKA...just looks like she was headed that way...why couldn't she stand up? It seemed like something happened a bit after we got home. I forgot I had let her out of her carrier near the litter box thinking she might have to go but she didn't, she walked to the kitchen & got some water, then I left for about 45 mins. It's when I got back that she had a problem. That's why I thought it was the lasix, thinking it had been about 2 hrs since she had the injection. So, while she might be ok there what's going on and where the heck am I gonna take her when she's released. They didn't know of any other vet for me to take her to. Ugh..... grumpy_cat :dizcat
 
First, I am glad she is stable and her bg is down.

I am really glad it was not full blown DKA.

I would post this on health with a little more detail to see if you can get some thoughts.

I have been thinking about you and Thumper and continue to keep you in my prayers.
 
Oh Barbara, I am so glad Thumper is ok! (I was out yesterday and last night ) Sounds like a very good vet. I don't understand why she can't give you a referral to a regular vet---or even several names if she is not supposed to just send to one.
Could her problem with standing be that her knee had popped out?
Thinking of you and sending healing vibes.
 
Just saw your post yesterday and my heart was in my throat.

Someone posted a number of ideas - like electrolyte imbalance, maybe the lasix flushed out potassium (it isn't a potassium sparing diuretic), dehydration lots of things. Blood work should help figure it out. I don't have a cat with a heart condition though I expect my Main Coone threw a clot from undiagnosed heart disease. I have a dog with congestive heart failure for the past year.

Sending you and Thumper lots of hugs.
 
Thinking of you and Thumper and hope you get some answers and find a vet she can go to if anything else like this occurs again.
(((BIG HUGS)))
 
Where in VA are you Barbara? We have good friends in the Arlington area with a Siberian cat. I can ask where they go to the vet if that is in the area for you. Still sendin’ good vibes for a good report with Thumper. (((((hugs)))))
 
So glad to see this positive report this morning. Could her weakness last night be related to this knee popping out issue? Can they do anything about that? Is it painful? Pain certainly impacts bg levels so that could explain some of the odd numbers you have been getting.

I do wish you could find a different vet. The one you have seems to be off the mark on several issues. I think you posted on Community for vet suggestions but there was no one in your area? You may have to do some vet searches on your own. Call and ask about their practices with diabetic cats until you find one open minded. Then go visit without Thumper and ask questions about DKA etc? It is a pain, but you want someone you can trust.
 
Things have been crazy at work and it looks like a lot has happened since I last checked in. I'm so very sorry to hear about Thumper. Was reading through your post last night and was so worried for you both. Glad Thumper is doing better today. I'm not an expert, but I think someone suggested low potassium as a factor. My dad has been prescribed a diuretic for his heard condition and a separate potassium pill as well cause the diuretic flushes out potassium, which can cause problems pretty quickly. You and Thumper are in my thoughts and prayers. Sending good vibes for a better day today.
 
Another update - We've talked about so much I might not have gotten some of the details correct. If I understood the day vet correctly they didn't end up having to give the fast acting insulin....just gave her 1 Unit of Pro Zinc & she came down to 100 at some point on her own. They were giving her fluids though. They have not given her any more insulin & she was @ 230 so they were waiting a bit to check her again before giving any more. She mentioned switching to Lantus. They are finding no indication of heart trouble. My vet had said she had high blood pressure, this vet says it's 170 but the stress of being at the vet is contributing to that so she really doesn't think it's that bad. Something about kidney values being slightly increased & they are rechecking later today. AND they gave her some kind of prescription diet...but Thumper wouldn't eat it. I told her I had left the FF & it was low carb but then she went on about it wasn't just the total carb # but the type of carbs. Thumper did eat her FF...good girl! She's talking to them & wants them to get her out of the cage! She is giving me a referral to an internal medicine specialist about an hour away & she has an appt. tomorrow afternoon @ 3:00, when I talked to them they said "she's being sent here to get control of her diabetes?" OMG....here we go again....yes she has diabetes but there is something else going on. I told them she has other issues. The ER vet says oxygen level is good...respriation is good. They haven't noticed the heavy breathing that I was talking about. I'm hoping we can find out something from the specialist tomorrow. It sounds like I will be picking her up this evening.

Thanks Donna but I'm about 4 hrs from Arlington...in Hampton/Newport News area.
 
Karrie and Maverick said:
Someone posted a number of ideas - like electrolyte imbalance, maybe the lasix flushed out potassium (it isn't a potassium sparing diuretic), dehydration lots of things. Blood work should help figure it out.
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They were talking about that last night & I know she was checking on it but I can't remember what she said now.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
So glad to see this positive report this morning. Could her weakness last night be related to this knee popping out issue? Can they do anything about that? Is it painful? Pain certainly impacts bg levels so that could explain some of the odd numbers you have been getting.
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They think her weakness was just the BG being so high..thank goodness I caught it right away! Her knee is not bad enough for surgery, she said it's in place more than it's out but it can be painful & she can give her pain med for that.
 
I am so glad you caught this in time Barbara. I'll continue to keep you both in my thoughts and prayers. Hopefully the appt tomorrow with the Internal Med Specialist will help or maybe they can recommend another vet in your area.
Give some scritches to Thumper to tonight from Klinger and I.
 
Hope the specialist will look at all her possible issues and give you some definitive answers. At this point, I think you are doing great with the diabetes - it's the other stuff that is confusing.
 
So glad to hear this update! I agree with the others that the problem you saw could have been an electrolyte imbalance. What concerns me is why they felt the need to give Lasix when this other vet can't find evidence of heart issues. I'd definitely be shopping for a new vet! Maybe the internist will have some suggestions for you. It does sound like Thumper is in good hands right now.
 
It sounds good Barbara.

I can't believe the diabetes is her main problem. Thumper has stayed in pretty good numbers-- wish Kitty had Thumper's numbers.

Good luck tomorrow with the specialist. Hopefully they can give you some answers.

So glad you took her to the ER --- it sounds like they are very good.

Are we going to lose all our kitties to Lantus? As I see all these vets changing cats from PZI to Lantus, it makes it hard for me not to question why Kitty should stay on PZ. One vet she has seen has already recommended changing to Lantus.

I know you are ready to get her home!
 
Barbara, I'm so happy she's doing better but if she didn't have high ketones and they didn't need to give her R to bring her back, why do they think it could be pre-DKA? I think all the other stuff together could be causing the problems. I agree have some eyes look over everything on health and ask for vet referrals. My prayers are with you and Thumper. Nancy
 
Why do people think you should just "put them to sleep" when a pet starts having trouble? I'm gonna scream if one more person says that! She is a family member....how do people live with pets for all their lives then just say "you should't be spending that much money on a cat"! We have had her since she was a day old when DH rescued them from the bushes at his work 15 yrs ago....how could I not try to help her? How about we just put them to sleep when they have health issues?? I tell you what there are some people that I would rather see go than my cats! angry(2)_cat
 
Nancy and Payne said:
Barbara, I'm so happy she's doing better but if she didn't have high ketones and they didn't need to give her R to bring her back, why do they think it could be pre-DKA? I think all the other stuff together could be causing the problems. I agree have some eyes look over everything on health and ask for vet referrals. My prayers are with you and Thumper. Nancy
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This was a different vet I talked to this morning. I'm thinking they have backed off that DKA diagnosis...that was probably what seemed likely when they first got her in there...trace ketones in the blood & high BG. When I asked if it wasn't DKA why couldn't she stand they said BG that high can cause that. Now that nothing is clear to them I think they are also starting to lean back towards blaming everything on the diabetes. I told them something else is going on. She wouldn't be laying around & breathing weird just cause she has diabetes. They said they can't see the rapid breathing...I can't wait to get back there to see if she's doing it so I can point it out. I asked for vet referrals on health in the past...no one knows anyone in my area.
 
wombat88 said:
So glad to hear this update! I agree with the others that the problem you saw could have been an electrolyte imbalance. What concerns me is why they felt the need to give Lasix when this other vet can't find evidence of heart issues. I'd definitely be shopping for a new vet! Maybe the internist will have some suggestions for you. It does sound like Thumper is in good hands right now.
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I'm not planning on taking her back there. I hope the internist can give me someone else to take her to, but when I called to confirm the appt. the receptionist knew them right off. I think they have a good reputation here. I felt the same way Wendy, I thought last night...he almost killed her...trace ketones then flush all the fluid out of her...I should have known better myself! They picked up on that quickly at the ER & said they might have to give her potassium.
 
I don't think DKA, thank God!!! you have enough going on .... and Kim it isn't the pzi that makes people care here, it is we are all fighting the same fight but in small different ways. Lantus is the insulin of choice right now but it doesn't work for everyone (thanks Payne ....) but I LOVE how easy pzi is and how you can do other things with it .... do t.i.d. of needed, add R if you need, move the dose by an hour if that happens but for some L works well but it is not for everyone. The L people are great! and the 10 days we were there we always felt wanted but I missed the easy going of pzi (and you all) and then of course Payne crashed big time and went into DKA, say good-bye to L!

Nancy and Payne
(not liking the L talk :)
 
I understand totally Nancy. It just makes someone like me that has their cat on PZI, wonder if I am using the "best" insulin.

That being said, I love the flexibility of PZ and it is great for my rigid work schedule.

I know we all have a common interest and care for all the kitties!

How is Payne today?
 
Hi Barbara, I'm so glad to hear Thumper is doing better and that you have an internal medicine consult for her. Keeping fingers, paws and tails crossed that this is a good internist. If you can find a good one, they are a keeper.

In reading over your posts, I'm struck by your mentioning Thumper is breathing rapidly. I know that rapid breathing can be a sign of heart or respiratory disease, but if Thumper's heart & lungs checked out OK, then the other likely possibility is pain. My Harley meatloafs and breaths rapidly when his pancreatitis is flaring. If she's in pain, the question is why.

The knee is the first possibility. Maybe if they give you pain meds. for the knee it'll go away. Or it could be something that everyone is missing so far. Wondering about the UTI? That could be painful. If she were not eating or vomiting, I'd suggest you ask them to run the spec-fPL test for pancreatitis. But then again, not all cats show any clinical symptoms of pancreatitis.

These are just some random thoughts running through my brain. Hope you find them useful and the vets are able to get to the bottom of this real soon.
 
ER vet just called & said she's good to go home. But, her BG is 231 & they think that's good so they aren't giving her insulin? She said it had gotten to 300 but dropped on it's own & they shot 1 unit into a 600 last night & she dropped to 100 on that so they didn't want to give her any? Good grief! This is a different vet than she had last night. By the time I get there to pick her up the other vet will be back. I can't wait to talk to her. This is like some kind of nightmare.
 
Hopefully the vet that you liked can help figure it out .... good wishes your way, yes we have all had the nightmare. Nancy
 
Given the experience you've had lately with vets that is probably a good thing. Now you can decide on the dose when you get her home.

Interesting that she dropped from 300 to 231 on her own, could have been stress.
 
Oh Barbara, It sounds like you both had a hell of a day and night
I truly hope that you find a great vet that can help you out!
Hang in there!
Denise and SHakes
 
Dropping from the 600s to 100s on 1u yesterday sounds like the pain meds they gave for the knee might have helped the BGs more than the insulin did. Did they give you pain meds to take with you?
 
Kelly & Oscar said:
Dropping from the 600s to 100s on 1u yesterday sounds like the pain meds they gave for the knee might have helped the BGs more than the insulin did. Did they give you pain meds to take with you?
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They didn't end up giving any pain meds for the knee. She's now saying it's probably not a big deal since she's walking on it...and that was from the vet I saw last night. OMG
 
You go Thumper girl, don't eat the HC and stick to your FF guns!!!! I am so proud of her! :YMHUG:

That's a relief that she has been in the 100s some and no DKA threat afterall, whew!!! I agree something else is going on. There are just too many things that don't quite add up IMO.

If they used the Lasix does that mean they found a heart problem? Sorry I can't recall the details. Maybe the breathing thing is some fluid in her lungs or chest area? Just wildly guessing, I know very little about those sorts of problems.

I have had very good experiences with specialists, hopefully that will be helpful. Keep in mind though that most of them are not diabetes specialists, and say the same dopey things other vets say on that front.

A Lantus switch is an interesting thought. I think she has been doing pretty well really (number-wise) lately, but who knows. If something seems off with her, it might be worth a try. She doesn't fit any patterns that jump out at me as "this kitty needs a different insulin!), but at the same time I don't think there's any need to be married to any one insulin. Her dose is low too, so that makes switching simpler - no long ramp-up time as you get to a possible higher dose. Sort of 6 of one 1/2 dozen of another choice IMO. I'd do whatever feels right to you.
 
I know Joanna, I wanted to laugh at them when they told me she wouldn't eat that 1.84 can of food but went for her FF! Then when I picked her up they said "she's not eating very well"! She went right to her food when she got home....she wanted them to get that crap out of her way!

I think he was thinking heart problem so "lets see if this works" with the lasix. :roll:
 
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