This newbie needs help! posted before, changed could you loo

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nancy and payne

nancy and payne

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My cat Payne was Dx Oct. 11 and it has been quite a roller coaster ride! I posted before asking for
advice but I was using R with ProZinc and no one could help with the #'s because of that.

Well I am back, Payne is MUCH better and we follow the protocol. We have stopped the R and began
tight regulation 2 weeks ago. In the beginning Payne had three episodes of DKA and we worry/check
ketones constantly.

Because of the ketones and the addition of the R we were never sure just how well the ProZinc
worked with her, well now we are trying to see and her numbers are all over the place! Yet from the
moment we began TR she has perked up! is feisty and just a pain :) Yet her #'s are high. We chose
TR because of her ketone tendency and she seems to need more insulin because of that?

Could you please look at my SS! the 1st. SS listed is when she was doing 12/12 .... the 2nd. one
is when we changed to TR and the past week no NovolinR. You will see the +1 next to the PZI # that
is for my vet who I am bringing along but he did not want me to stop the R but had no good reason
why. (he follows the SS but doesn't know why the #'s are so bad)

I have learned so much, read so much but I still look at a SS and just see #'s and colors. cat(2)_steam
Since she is doing so well otherwise and the ketones have been in check, I really would like to level
her #'s out. So it's just ProZinc, could you give me your opinions on her numbers. I would appreciate
it.
Nancy and Payne
 
Re: This newbie needs help! posted before, changed could you

Which TR protocol are you using?

There are currently no active PZI users in here using a TR protocol so your help might be limited.

You might also want to post in Health with a descriptive title asking for help with "PZI X-and-so TID" protocol.

Kristen,
TR = Tight Regulation
 
Re: This newbie needs help! posted before, changed could you

ok, so the +1 is meaningless right? now i'll go back and take a 2nd look.
i'm taking it to mean the TR is TID.
 
Re: This newbie needs help! posted before, changed could you

I sent a couple notes to folks with TID experience, I'm hoping they stop past eventually. :smile:
 
Re: This newbie needs help! posted before, changed could you

Nancy I can see the dosing scale your using and I think it is appropriate. It looks rational. The only thing I would look for is more spot checks. I can see there are more as time goes on. The one time blue maybe could have been rechecked..or checked in 15 minutes before the shot. he sure sky rocketed.
I am kind of hating to say this but are you close to finishing off your bottle of pz? If your close to done with it I would think the next stop after TID is Lev. I have been kind of astonished with it's strength and staying power. It gives a really flat day...as opposed to the ups and downs. It seems gentler than Lantus and possibly easier to use.
I'll keep an eye on your ss everyday and it would be nice to hear from you each day too.
Good Luck
Lori
 
Re: This newbie needs help! posted before, changed could you

Her vet does not like Lev or Lan [or at least the last I knew they did not].
 
Re: This newbie needs help! posted before, changed could you

yep i had that problem too, nancy you can either push the vet a little harder or phone around and see if any vet's do prescribe lev.
the flatlines are a huge relief after a bouncy boy. my ss the last 6 days show flat days every day and this was NOT our experience at all prior.
now i'd like to get lower flats!
 
Re: This newbie needs help! posted before, changed could you

You are not understanding. The last I knew, they do not do Lan or Lev. This is UC Davis - there is not much "pushing" with them. When I took H up there I was told that I could pursue certain avenues but I would be on my own with those avenues. Not saying that this would happen to this person but I think it has to be a consideration. This individual has already heard that she should switch/consider other insulins from others too. My understanding is that she wants help with ProZinc TR via TID.
 
Re: This newbie needs help! posted before, changed could you

Hi Nancy! Boy, I see what you mean about the numbers. It's tougher than normal when you have to be so watchful of the ketones. What a ride!

Up front, I have to tell you that not only have I not used Prozinc but I did not shoot TID when I used PZI Vet with Moochie. From what I do know about the use of R I get why you aren't using it while shooting TID but I'm wondering - and I apologize if I am not reading your SS properly - if you have tried using a fixed dose of Prozinc on the TID schedule with a reduced dose if you are uncomfortable shooting a lower number. It looked like you were using a fixed dose when you were on the BID/R booster combo.

I will say that I love Levemir for Moochie but not only do I understand that your vet doesn't like the Ls, I also haven't had the same issues with the Mooch.

I don't know if this is at all helpful and hopefully some of the former TID/PZI people will take a look but it's just a thought. Perhaps a fixed dose for a few cycles would show you better what, if anything, the Prozinc is doing?
 
Re: This newbie needs help! posted before, changed could you

This is a website that appears dedicated to TR with PZI/ProZinc if you cannot find help here with the ProZinc TR you may want to check out this site:
http://www.diabeticcatcare.com
I have not used that site myself but it has been briefly alluded to here in PZI.


Comment by Rebecca: Links are always good but she is asking for help here, so let's give it here on FDMB.
 
Re: This newbie needs help! posted before, changed could you

Nancy, I see you are getting good responses from former PZI/TR people on Health. That's a good thing :smile:


Hope you can get this all sorted out and get those numbers down. I'm glad to see anyway that she is feeling good. That's always important.
 
Re: This newbie needs help! posted before, changed could you

Nancy, I did respond to your post on health but I thought I would post here too.

I won't repeat what I posted over there, but, did want to ask you when was Payne's last DKA episode?

Did he have all 3 episodes during the month of October?

Since the last episode, how recent was his last bloodwork?
Urine culture?

I'm asking to make sure any chance of a possible hidden infection has been ruled out.

I agree in the interim with TID dosing and explained how I did it on the health post.

If I'm reading things correctly, then you've been on this insulin for almost 3 months. I just think that it is time to move on if you can't break through with the TID dosing (I never used a sliding scale - liked stable dose better). Three months is more than respectable to hang around trying to get an insulin to work, but there is no reason to stay if there is another alternative that Payne might respond to in a better manner.

You need to get the numbers down. It's great that he's acting better, etc. but you cannot afford to have him linger in those high numbers.

Is he eating lower carb food? Do not limit the amount of food but make sure he is eating lower carb (no dry if at all possible).

Your vets should be well-versed with Dr. Rand's research, but just in case, here is the link for you to print and give to your vet.
http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/diabetesinfo/link4.pdf


I hope this helps - again, sending best wishes to you and Payne. We've been where you are.

Oh, do you have the Precision Xtra meter? It tests blood ketones. I thought you had one - but need to go and re-read your original postings.

Best,
Pam & Layla
 
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