The Tucker and Jami show

LoveforTucker said:
Amps 140
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Here is the rules for SLGS method when you have a low preshot number, you may already be aware of this....with the limited data you have on your kitty it is tough to say what to do, for one im still sorta new and dont feel confident in giving dosing advice


How to handle a lower than normal preshot number when following SLGS:

Until you collect enough data to know how your cat will react, we suggest following the guidelines in the FDMB's FAQ Q4.4:
Q4.4. My cat's pre-shot level was way below the usual value. Should I give the injection?
A4.4. There's no hard and fast rule, but if you don't have data on how your cat responds to insulin, here are some general guidelines.

  • Below 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), don't give insulin.
  • Between 150 and 200 (8.3-11.1 mmol/L), you have three options:
    • a.) give nothing
    • b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose)
    • c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value
  • Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise.
  • In all cases, if you are reducing or eliminating insulin, it's wise to check for ketones in the urine.
  • Above the normal pre-shot value, give the usual dose, but if the pre-shot value is consistently elevated, it's a good idea to schedule a full glucose curve to see whether a change in dose or insulin is appropriate. In most cases, the target "peak" value should not be below 100 mg/dl (5.6 mmol/L), and for some cats it might be higher.
Keep in mind these are general guidelines, and they should be personalized to your own cat's response to insulin once you have data and understand your cat’s cycles. If your experience is that your cat does not became hypoglycemic with a dose which is close to her usual, then personal experience should be your guide.

With experience, you may find that lowering these thresholds may work well for your cat. When you have reached that stage, the following guidelines are suggested for Prozinc users following the Start Low Go Slow approach:

If the preshot number is far below usual preshot numbers:

  • Do you need to stay on schedule? Then skip the shot.
  • Do you have some flexibility with your schedule? Then stalling to wait for the number to rise might be a good option. Don't feed, retest after 30-60 minutes, and decide if the number is shootable.
  • Repeat until the cat either reaches a number at which you are comfortable shooting, or enough time has passed that skipping the shot is necessary.
If the preshot number is near kitty's usual preshot numbers:

Look at your data to see what numbers you have shot in the past and decide what would be a safe, shootable number for your cat. Don't feed. Stall until kitty reaches the preshot number you've decided on and then shoot.

We usually don't suggest or recommend shooting a preshot number less than 90 mg/dL when following the SLGS Method. Remember that with SLGS, generally speaking, your goal is to achieve flat numbers that are greater than 90 mg/dL. However, let experience, data collected, knowledge of your cat, and availability to monitor help in making the best decisions for your cat.
 
Shelley & Jess said:
@Deb & Wink what do you think about the dose and the low preshot today please?

Concerned about getting two shootable numbers this early in the game when Jami can't be home to monitor.
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If you’re not going to be home, I would be hesitant to shoot at 129, but that’s just me. @Deb & Wink usually isn’t on until the evening. I believe @JanetNJ is still online.
 
you are new without much data ... SKIP THE DOSE this morning. If it were my cat I would reset the dose to 1 unit starting tonight. 1 is the recommended starting dose... I think your vet started you at much to high a dose. If after a few days we see 1 isn't enough, then we will recommend 1.25, then 1.5... It might be a little higher tonight with the skip, but it's MUCH SAFER then shooting a low number like that. Better too high then too low.
 
JanetNJ said:
f it were my cat I would reset the dose to 1 unit starting tonight. 1 is the recommended starting dose... I think your vet started you at much to high a dose. If after a few days we see 1 isn't enough, then we will recommend 1.25, then 1.5... It might be a little higher tonight with the skip, but it's MUCH SAFER then shooting a low number like that. Better too high then too low.
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This is what I was thinking too.
 
Shelley & Jess said:
Just double checking, no history of ketones right? (I don't/didn't see it mentioned in your signature, information tab or in previous threads)
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I haven't tested his urine, but I can buy those strips to test.
JanetNJ said:
you are new without much data ... SKIP THE DOSE this morning. If it were my cat I would reset the dose to 1 unit starting tonight. 1 is the recommended starting dose... I think your vet started you at much to high a dose. If after a few days we see 1 isn't enough, then we will recommend 1.25, then 1.5... It might be a little higher tonight with the skip, but it's MUCH SAFER then shooting a low number like that. Better too high then too low.
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I did skip! Thank goodness I have ppl like you online early when I had questions! I have the SLGS information printed out on my "Tucker Cabinet" (food, syringes and glucometer in there) I re-read all that, but I still wanted someone to verify as well. The vet said he doses on body weight. I can change it to whatever you all think is best. Seems like ya'll have saved so many kitties!
Shelley & Jess said:
This is what I was thinking too.
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I can do that. I'll retest tonight. I'm assuming he'll be testing in the 200's again..
 
Irish Pat said:
Here is the rules for SLGS method when you have a low preshot number, you may already be aware of this....with the limited data you have on your kitty it is tough to say what to do, for one im still sorta new and dont feel confident in giving dosing advice


How to handle a lower than normal preshot number when following SLGS:

Until you collect enough data to know how your cat will react, we suggest following the guidelines in the FDMB's FAQ Q4.4:
Q4.4. My cat's pre-shot level was way below the usual value. Should I give the injection?
A4.4. There's no hard and fast rule, but if you don't have data on how your cat responds to insulin, here are some general guidelines.

  • Below 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), don't give insulin.
  • Between 150 and 200 (8.3-11.1 mmol/L), you have three options:
    • a.) give nothing
    • b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose)
    • c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value
  • Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise.
  • In all cases, if you are reducing or eliminating insulin, it's wise to check for ketones in the urine.
  • Above the normal pre-shot value, give the usual dose, but if the pre-shot value is consistently elevated, it's a good idea to schedule a full glucose curve to see whether a change in dose or insulin is appropriate. In most cases, the target "peak" value should not be below 100 mg/dl (5.6 mmol/L), and for some cats it might be higher.
Keep in mind these are general guidelines, and they should be personalized to your own cat's response to insulin once you have data and understand your cat’s cycles. If your experience is that your cat does not became hypoglycemic with a dose which is close to her usual, then personal experience should be your guide.

With experience, you may find that lowering these thresholds may work well for your cat. When you have reached that stage, the following guidelines are suggested for Prozinc users following the Start Low Go Slow approach:

If the preshot number is far below usual preshot numbers:

  • Do you need to stay on schedule? Then skip the shot.
  • Do you have some flexibility with your schedule? Then stalling to wait for the number to rise might be a good option. Don't feed, retest after 30-60 minutes, and decide if the number is shootable.
  • Repeat until the cat either reaches a number at which you are comfortable shooting, or enough time has passed that skipping the shot is necessary.
If the preshot number is near kitty's usual preshot numbers:

Look at your data to see what numbers you have shot in the past and decide what would be a safe, shootable number for your cat. Don't feed. Stall until kitty reaches the preshot number you've decided on and then shoot.

We usually don't suggest or recommend shooting a preshot number less than 90 mg/dL when following the SLGS Method. Remember that with SLGS, generally speaking, your goal is to achieve flat numbers that are greater than 90 mg/dL. However, let experience, data collected, knowledge of your cat, and availability to monitor help in making the best decisions for your cat.
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I have this printed out and taped in my cabinet! :) Thank you for posting it!
 
LoveforTucker said:
I did skip! Thank goodness I have ppl like you online early when I had questions! I have the SLGS information printed out on my "Tucker Cabinet" (food, syringes and glucometer in there) I re-read all that, but I still wanted someone to verify as well. The vet said he doses on body weight. I can change it to whatever you all think is best. Seems like ya'll have saved so many kitties!
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Dogs are dosed by weight, cats are not. He probably has more experience with diabetic dogs. and yes... MANY people's cats have been saved and have gone into remission through this site. :) Did you know your cat could possibly go into remission not needing shots? My cat went into remission after four months thanks to the wonderful help of people on here. Unfortunately after a year she came out of remission because of a tumor on her pituitary gland. Not much you can do about that. Radiation would cost 8-10 K. but she's doing good with me just managing her insulin with higher doses.
 
Lalkabee said:
remember when you change a dose...you have to keep it for 3 days :) Tucker is so beautiful. You had many cats...even a Maine Coon. Its nice to have you and you will get all the help you need here :)
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Thank you!! He is pretty cute. Yeah, I've had kitties since I was probably 8. One of them was a kitten when I first got here, she had a litter if kitties. The one I kept from the litter was my first one to pass with FD. My Maine Coon.. that was a cool cat! He acted just like a dog I swear, we would go for walks, play fetch.. just a neat personality! I'm so grateful to have found this place! I don't know what i would have done. Def my anxiety has gone down and i feel so much more optimistic about the situation!
 
JanetNJ said:
Dogs are dosed by weight, cats are not. He probably has more experience with diabetic dogs. and yes... MANY people's cats have been saved and have gone into remission through this site. :) Did you know your cat could possibly go into remission not needing shots? My cat went into remission after four months thanks to the wonderful help of people on here. Unfortunately after a year she came out of remission because of a tumor on her pituitary gland. Not much you can do about that. Radiation would cost 8-10 K. but she's doing good with me just managing her insulin with higher doses.
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He did mention that he sees a lot of diabetic dogs. I had a friend a long time about that put her cat into remission! So, when Tucker was dx I knew there was hope, somewhere, LOL. I just did'n't expect to have so many people jumping in willing to help! So awesome! That is an insane cost for radiation! Holy cow! Glad she is doing ok! ((HUGS))
 
LoveforTucker said:
Def my anxiety has gone down and i feel so much more optimistic about the situation!
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SO GLAD TO HEAR THAT! it is SO overwhelming and nerve wracking at first. It feels so reasuring to have people in the same boat helping. haha I CLEARLY remember when CC was diagnosed. I literally cried for 12 hours straight. I wondered if I was going to be torturing her. If i'd EVER get to go on vacation. If she would grow to hate me. ...... It's all fine. and after a few weeks it was all mostly routine. Ok, the vacation thing is still a pain in the ass... but we just board her if we are away a few days and just consider it part of the vacation budget. hahaha
 
JanetNJ said:
SO GLAD TO HEAR THAT! it is SO overwhelming and nerve wracking at first. It feels so reasuring to have people in the same boat helping. haha I CLEARLY remember when CC was diagnosed. I literally cried for 12 hours straight. I wondered if I was going to be torturing her. If i'd EVER get to go on vacation. If she would grow to hate me. ...... It's all fine. and after a few weeks it was all mostly routine. Ok, the vacation thing is still a pain in the ass... but we just board her if we are away a few days and just consider it part of the vacation budget. hahaha
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UGH! IKR! I had a complete melt down at the vets office! LOL Cried all the way home, felt like I should call into work over the next 2 weeks. My fear too was that he was going to start to fear me. The first time I tested him it was pretty unsuccessful, Lucky I'm getting faster and he's getting more patient! Thank goodness (hes so affectionate) I still see him at my bd door in the morning, wanting to be held and hugged. He's probably just hungry but I'll take it. HAHA! Vacation?? What's that!? hehehee.. jk.
 
LoveforTucker said:
Vacation?? What's that!? hehehee.
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hahaha when I say vacation it's like 3-4 nights tops. We go each year for a reunion with my son's half siblings (donor concieved so there's lots of kids that get together. Last year there were 19 of them!). We were SUPPOSED to be in Virgina in a mansion with a guitar shaped swimming pool right now but we all decided to cancel the trip because several coming down from Canada couldn't get flights, and several others were living with people with compromised immune systems. We decided it was best to just cancel this year. So here we are on a home-cation cooling off in a blow up kiddie pool. hahahahahaha
 
JanetNJ said:
hahaha when I say vacation it's like 3-4 nights tops. We go each year for a reunion with my son's half siblings (donor concieved so there's lots of kids that get together. Last year there were 19 of them!). We were SUPPOSED to be in Virgina in a mansion with a guitar shaped swimming pool right now but we all decided to cancel the trip because several coming down from Canada couldn't get flights, and several others were living with people with compromised immune systems. We decided it was best to just cancel this year. So here we are on a home-cation cooling off in a blow up kiddie pool. hahahahahaha
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I haven't been on a vacation in a LONG time!! Just a night at a hotel with a swimming pool would be nice! ;) WOW Thats a lot of kids!! How fun though! This year def in a year to just stay home. Le sigh. this too shall pass!
 
LoveforTucker said:
Pmps 331.. 1u?
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I would do one for a few days. Try to get the preshots and at least 1 mid cycle and/or before bed test. Then we can see after a few days if it needs a little bump up. It probably will need to go up a bit more but this way you'll see what you need and raise slowly.
 
LoveforTucker said:
Pmps 331.. 1u?
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That is the expected bounce from skipping the shot this morning. But you don't really have much data to know how Tucker will react to insulin when his BG levels are that low. Better to skip, like you did this morning 7/15/20, per the SLGS dosing protocol.

The dosing protocols are your guidelines, if no one is here to get back to you in time.

No one likes to test too much, but those nadirs at mid-cycle are your guide to know how low a particular dose of insulin is taking Tucker. If you only test in one cycle, you don't know how low the dose takes your cat in the other cycle. So tests in both AM and PM cycles are important, more than just the pre-shot test.

Hopefully, you will be able to get what we call a "before bed test" that will be a couple of hours after your PM pre-shot test. Try for that one every night. If possible.

Really guessing here, and trying to "read between the lines" on your SS, where you don't have data. But I'm thinking that Tucker is going lower at night, and you aren't catching that low. Most likely, somewhere between 1U and 1.5U will be a good dose for Tucker. For now. That changes with time and as you gather more test data on how Tucker reacts, when his onset, nadir and duration are, you'll adjust that dose.

p.s.
Shelley & Jess said:
I've 'caught' her peeking in in the mornings sometimes too ;)
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Yes, if the weather is miserable, and I can't be out in the garden playing to my heart's content!
Today was errand day. Grocery shop for the bulky items. Rush home to unload the car. Rush off to dentist for my first cleaning in 1 year. :nailbiting: Another grocery shop. Then chores. The fun never ends.;)
 
Deb & Wink said:
That is the expected bounce from skipping the shot this morning. But you don't really have much data to know how Tucker will react to insulin when his BG levels are that low. Better to skip, like you did this morning 7/15/20, per the SLGS dosing protocol.

The dosing protocols are your guidelines, if no one is here to get back to you in time.

No one likes to test too much, but those nadirs at mid-cycle are your guide to know how low a particular dose of insulin is taking Tucker. If you only test in one cycle, you don't know how low the dose takes your cat in the other cycle. So tests in both AM and PM cycles are important, more than just the pre-shot test.

Hopefully, you will be able to get what we call a "before bed test" that will be a couple of hours after your PM pre-shot test. Try for that one every night. If possible.

Really guessing here, and trying to "read between the lines" on your SS, where you don't have data. But I'm thinking that Tucker is going lower at night, and you aren't catching that low. Most likely, somewhere between 1U and 1.5U will be a good dose for Tucker. For now. That changes with time and as you gather more test data on how Tucker reacts, when his onset, nadir and duration are, you'll adjust that dose.

p.s.

Yes, if the weather is miserable, and I can't be out in the garden playing to my heart's content!
Today was errand day. Grocery shop for the bulky items. Rush home to unload the car. Rush off to dentist for my first cleaning in 1 year. :nailbiting: Another grocery shop. Then chores. The fun never ends.;)
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I'll do an 18 hour cycle this weekend. Ugh. He's going to hate me LOL. BUT I know its for his own good. I'm not being a very good mama to him. I should have that spread sheet filled! :( I'll test again tonight at +2, which is actually my 'bed time' LOL!!
Off subject but, I have a medical issue myself. The meds I take for it have to be taken at bed time. Unfortunately it gives me insomnia, so I have to take a benedryl or advil pm to help me sleep. I might have to skip my sleepy meds so I can test during the night. I'll have to do it on the weekend as my job gets pretty demanding during the day.
YAY you got your teeth cleaned! HIGH FIVE! I finally get to go back in aug.. Its been a tough year with all the shut downs! I have a garden too! Plantar garden. Just a few tomato plants and peppers. Its fun huh. I just need to figure out how to stop BER on my Roma toms!! You had a busy day!! :bighug:
 
Pmps. 332. 1u shot. I noticed that I only have two testing strips left. Hopefully Amazon will give me a one day shipping!
Oh yeah, .. Katie pooped on the carpet today! Since switching to wet food it's pretty disgusting! Shes always been my finicky kitty. Throws up. Used to pee outside her box.. now this. Luckily my husband thought it was puke!
 
LoveforTucker said:
Pmps. 332. 1u shot. I noticed that I only have two testing strips left. Hopefully Amazon will give me a one day shipping!
Oh yeah, .. Katie pooped on the carpet today! Since switching to wet food it's pretty disgusting! Shes always been my finicky kitty. Throws up. Used to pee outside her box.. now this. Luckily my husband thought it was puke!
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It oh ya don’t wanna run out. I did that once and learned my lesson. I have about 20 backup vials right now. Lololol
 
JanetNJ said:
The time I ran out I thought I had a backup vial. I forgot I was USING the backup. Now I scan eBay and get a vial whenever I see a good deal.
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I should have checked ebay! I felt desperate, LOL I think I paid $56 for 200 strips! I should get these tomorrow. I have one strip left, Luckily Tuckers BG has been running a bit high. :nailbiting:
 
Tucker, please don't take a dive to low numbers while your mama Jami is waiting for more test strips to arrive. Please stay safe.

When you are running low on test strips, those pre-shot tests are the ones to get. Yes, your cat may dip lower at mid-cycle and you aren't catching it. But it's more important in my opinion to know that the pre-shot BG level is high enough to give insulin in the first place.

New thread? Please? Pretty please? This one is up to 91 replies now. Link this old thread into the top of the new thread if you would. Thank you.
 
AMPS 315 1u shot. Hmm.. seems like he did better on the higher dosage.. I'll do a curve tomorrow (my test strips should be delivered today) I didn't test last night, primarily because I had one strip left. Normally hes lower in the morning so I saved it for today.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Tucker, please don't take a dive to low numbers while your mama Jami is waiting for more test strips to arrive. Please stay safe.

When you are running low on test strips, those pre-shot tests are the ones to get. Yes, your cat may dip lower at mid-cycle and you aren't catching it. But it's more important in my opinion to know that the pre-shot BG level is high enough to give insulin in the first place.

New thread? Please? Pretty please? This one is up to 91 replies now. Link this old thread into the top of the new thread if you would. Thank you.
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Yes!! :)I'll start a new one!
 
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