Testing too much?

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carsoncassidy

carsoncassidy

Member Since 2012
I feel like the most awful furmom ever. Am I testing too much? I have been testing as soon as we wake up, 5am, as soon as I get home, 3pm, and then before we go to bed, about 10 pm. Kate is a real champ about all of this, but her poor little ear veins! She still loves me, I know. And I know I'm doing this for her health. She's even gotten used to the routine. *sigh* I just feel so bad! I free poke with the lancets b/c I'm too shakey to hold the lancet machine still... not nerves. I'm just a shakey person. LOL. I think I'm hurting her though. Her numbers look better... not fantastic, but better than before when she was eating all the carbs. :)

This brings another question... I know that it's the diabetes "telling" her she's hungry, but this child is ravenous. I give her the 3oz. can of Wilderness at 5am and then another 3oz. can at 5pm. She is still ridiculously hungry! She is slightly "under weight" at 7lbs. Should I feed her more? I know I read it somewhere, but how many calories should she be getting a day? Oh wait... I just killed a fly with Dr. PIerson's paper, "Feeding Your Cat..." Geez, I'm brain dead.

Should I test in the morning, when I get home and only test a third time on the weekends? Give her a break from at least 5 pokes during the week?

I don't record on a chart b/c well, I just hate charts... and I would just rather write it down, but here's how her numbers look!
8/11 - 9pm, 2 hrs after food - 515
8/12 - fasting, 5am - 332
8/12 - 3.5hrs after food, 9am - 327
8/12 - 3hrs after food, 10pm - 334
8/13 - fasting 3pm - 240
8/13 1 hr after food, 8pm - 310
8/13 - 3.5hrs after food, 10pm - 422 (she snuck some of Shadow's food)
8/14 - fasting, 5am - 382
8/14 - fasting, 3:30pm - 273
8/14 - 4hrs after food, 10pm - 304
 
ok, another question...

and yes, I know I'm making this too hard. I'm an over analyzer. :mrgreen:

Are kcals and calories the same thing? I read the Wilderness can (again). It says, feed two can per 6 to 8 lbs a day. So today, Kate has had about 240 calories today, which according to Dr. Pierson's paper is a little more than recommended. A small female, 9lb cat should consume at least 135 calories a day, per her paper.

Should I look into getting one of the three dry foods, Innova EVO, Wellness CORE or Nature's Variety Instinct and mix in a few kibbles so it's more filling?
 
I'd never think about disagreeing with Dr. Lisa, she's an authority on feline nutrition. But that 135 calories for a 7 pound kitty sounds just a little low to me. It could be the "at least" that's the key? The estimate I have read, and this would be for a healthy kitty, not a diabetic one, is 20-30 calories per pound of ideal body weight per day. That would call for at least 140-210 for your girl, if she wasn't diabetic. And that also assumes her ideal weight is 7 pounds.

A diabetic cat needs more calories per day than a healthy one would. They can't get the same amount of nutrition from eating as a non-diabetic can.

They can also benefit greatly by eating small meals several times a day rather than just twice a day. You should always feed at shot times, so that's two meals, but you can also feed in between shots. That will help spread the load of food over the course of the day, and it might make her seem less starved at breakfast and dinner time.

Should I look into getting one of the three dry foods, Innova EVO, Wellness CORE or Nature's Variety Instinct and mix in a few kibbles so it's more filling?
Click to expand...
I would say "definitely not". If you've read Dr. P's pages, you will know that dry food is not good for any cat, and especially for a diabetic cat. Even those that say they are "low carb" are not good for them. It's the source of the carbs that matter too, and dry food's carbs come from things you'd never see a cat in the wild eat, like veggies and grains. Cats are obligate carnivores, and they have zero need for any carbohydrates whatsoever. Carbs can supply humans with "energy", but a cat can turn proteins and fats into all the "energy" they require. Here's another great page of information on feline nutrition:
http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm

And yes, "kcal" and calories are the same thing.
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/531907

Carl
Edited - I thought you said "9" pounds, not 7, so I adjusted the numbers after realizing my mistake. :oops:
 
Is Kate on insulin yet?
If not, then I think 3 tests a day is okay. Test her at breakfast and dinner, before feeding to get a fasting number. Then just pick a random time during the day to test her, it can be after a meal, in between snacks, whenever. You could also maybe get a test just before bedtime. Just record them all and make notes about when they are in relation to eating. That way any rises or dips can be explained, in part, due to when you tested in relation to eating. You'll be able to see if the food boosts her numbers, and if her body is doing what it is supposed to do to counter that rise in BG.

If she is on insulin, then you have to test before each shot, and then at least once in between shots, preferable close to the time the insulin is most effective (typically 6 hours after a shot). That's the minimum amount of testing you'd want to do. It's the only way to evaluate what the dose of insulin is actually doing for her. Depending on the type of insulin, you'll need tests at other times on occasion so that you can see a "curve" over the course of 12 hours between shots.

Carl
 
OK I am not clear why one would be concerned for the calories on an unregulated cat - the cat's likely not able to get what is needed from the food so you would need to feed more than usual. Once you have a regulated cat, you can think about getting down to the calories. Let the cat eat. As your cats gets regulated, you will notice a decrease in appetite.

NO dry food. None is good for a diabetic cat.
 
I'm no expert here but I think you could help the appetite if you split meals up more often.
2 times a day would make most of us ravenous.
You should be giving protein (no carb) treats with the testing so that helps the hungries too.

But for a short period, while your cat is adjusting, I would let her have a little mini meals spread thru out the day.

I tend to give my own cat 1/2 of a 3 oz can for shot times and then she gets 1/8 - 1/4 can in between shot times depending on the day
and how hungry she is.
I tend to be testing round the clock so I'm up at 3 am and let her have a little taste.
Your cat's appetite will level back off after the insulin starts to work.
Diabetes truly starves your cat so the hunger is real.

And promise us , no more dry. It's all the high carbs and fat calories that makes so many kitties fat, not the protein.
And the dry food got you here with all of us and diabetes.
 
If your cat is underweight, feed her as much as she wants. Once you get her back to a normal weight, you can cut her food back a little if she starts to weigh more than she should. Staying at a healthy weight is important for diabetics, which is why you may want to be strict with diet later on, but that's after the cat has gained the lost weight back and the diabetes is better controlled.

If she's acting very hungry, try spreading out the meals and feeding more frequently. I feed Bandit every 6 hrs--that's his magic number of feedings where he doesn't start tearing my house apart. :smile: You can feed as frequently as you want; Diabetic cats do very well on small, frequent feedings. Definitely do NOT feed dry food--it's bad for all cats but especially diabetics. Even the lower carb dry foods keep blood sugar too high.

Those numbers are definitely still in a diabetic range. Are you starting insulin soon? The sooner you start with a slow acting insulin (Lantus or Levemir), the better are your odds of remission.
 
Kate isn't on insulin yet. The vet recommended that we change her diet first to see if that would change her numbers. It has but she's leveling off around 300 which is not good. She does not get dry food. For now I leave it out in a place that she can't get too for my other cat. He just flat out hates wet food. He eats it and immediately throws up and I do mean immediately. Once I get Kate and her BG under control I am going to transition him to wet food, but I've got to tackle one problem at a time.

*I* think that Kate is a little under weight. She went from 11lbs when she was rather chunky and then dropped 4lbs in 2 months. That's when I rushed her to the vet to see what was wrong. As far as feeding her multiple times a day, I work so I can feed her in the morning and then when I get home and then again at dinner. Maybe that will be better for her. Good, that makes me feel better.

I worried about calories because I didn't want her to gain weight back by feeding her too much, therefore compounding the problem with diabetes and weight.

Thanks for clarifying the Kcal/calorie thing Carl! I've read Dr. P's paper twice... and trust me, I'm totally against dry food now especially for my Katekate. She's like my child!

Ok, so here's my plan of action: keep testing Kate before feeding, feed her more food since she's hungry, and call the vet!
 
many of the folks here have a Petsafe electronic feeder . They come with a 2 slot and a 5 slot.
You can look them up on Amazon (cheapest price)

It's a great way to delay a feeding , especially if you have a cat that would eat it all right away.
When the people are going to be gone for many hours, I hear they are freezing the canned cat food mixed with water.
Many mix water in the canned food to increase hydration and make it soupy.
If you put a frozen lump in the electronic feeder, it's about thawed and ready by the time it's feeding time.
I'm about to order one myself for those occasional gone all day trips.
I hear they are noisy so cats have to get used to them before you rely on it. But then that loud turning sound wakes them
up and they know it's lunch time.
 
When Maui was first diagnosed AND after I taught her to eat canned food, she could eat 2-3 cans of fancy feast at one time. She was that hungry. and I would feed her 3-4 times a day. I removed all dry food and she only ate wet foods.

And I would give her as much as she needed.

As she got regulated her demand for food decreased and now she may take the whole day to eat 1 3 ounce can of food. But that's ok, as her body is telling her just how much she needs and she is at what I believe is now an ideal weight.
 
carsoncassidy said:
For now I leave it out in a place that she can't get too for my other cat. He just flat out hates wet food. He eats it and immediately throws up and I do mean immediately.
Click to expand...

Is it possible he's eating the food too fast? My cat does this as well, but its not because he doesn't like the food; he just eats so fast he barfs his food up right away. I solved the problem by feeding him smaller, more frequnet meals. Half a can of Fancy Feast (or a quarter can of Merricks) is all I can feed at a time, 4 times a day, and we haven't had a puking problem since.
 
They also make a bowl for pets that wolf their food down to quickly.

We had to get one for our sheltie , she was so used to competing with her siblings for food, she inhaled
it.
The bowl slowed her down and no more upchuck.
 
Julia & Bandit said:
carsoncassidy said:
For now I leave it out in a place that she can't get too for my other cat. He just flat out hates wet food. He eats it and immediately throws up and I do mean immediately.
Click to expand...

Is it possible he's eating the food too fast? My cat does this as well, but its not because he doesn't like the food; he just eats so fast he barfs his food up right away. I solved the problem by feeding him smaller, more frequnet meals. Half a can of Fancy Feast (or a quarter can of Merricks) is all I can feed at a time, 4 times a day, and we haven't had a puking problem since.
Click to expand...

Oh yes, scarf and barf, nice isn't it :lol: Scooter gets 1/4 of a Fancy Feast sized can, so roughly 0.75 oz a feeding.... and even that makes him barf sometimes, especially in the mornings when he hasn't eaten in a few hours.
 
rhiannon and shadow said:
many of the folks here have a Petsafe electronic feeder . They come with a 2 slot and a 5 slot.
You can look them up on Amazon (cheapest price)

It's a great way to delay a feeding , especially if you have a cat that would eat it all right away.
When the people are going to be gone for many hours, I hear they are freezing the canned cat food mixed with water.
Many mix water in the canned food to increase hydration and make it soupy.
If you put a frozen lump in the electronic feeder, it's about thawed and ready by the time it's feeding time.
I'm about to order one myself for those occasional gone all day trips.
I hear they are noisy so cats have to get used to them before you rely on it. But then that loud turning sound wakes them
up and they know it's lunch time.
Click to expand...

That's a fantastic idea! I looked at them, but in my head I said, the food will go bad... Ya'll are so smart!
 
Julia & Bandit said:
carsoncassidy said:
For now I leave it out in a place that she can't get too for my other cat. He just flat out hates wet food. He eats it and immediately throws up and I do mean immediately.
Click to expand...

Is it possible he's eating the food too fast? My cat does this as well, but its not because he doesn't like the food; he just eats so fast he barfs his food up right away. I solved the problem by feeding him smaller, more frequnet meals. Half a can of Fancy Feast (or a quarter can of Merricks) is all I can feed at a time, 4 times a day, and we haven't had a puking problem since.
Click to expand...

I thought that too, but he's actually a slow eater... he licks the sauce off and throws up. I dunno what his deal is. I found his dry food puked up in the floor today. ohmygod_smile
 
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