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Morgan Williams

Member Since 2020
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I'll give a little preface: My cat, Arizona, will be 8 years old next month. I got her when I was 17. She is my little baby and the light of my life. She has always had issues with using litter boxes. She has always preferred to pee on smooth surfaces or cloth, while pooping on smooth surfaces. Smooth surfaces are the floor, counter, bathtub, and the last couple years the stove. It was a little more manageable when she was a kitten, but last year she got very sick with a rare blood parasite. Feline Leukemia was ruled out and they thought it was FIV at first then after two weeks inpatient, she got better so they ruled it as a rare blood parasite. In that time she was having liver failure which lead to pancreas damage, which lead to diabetes. After the blood parasite she was still having bad symptoms which had similarities to diabetes, but her vet said to give her time because she thought it was just my cat recovering. She had gotten a UTI and my mother graciously took her to the vet for me so I wouldn't miss work (working some overtime to try to pay off her vet bill). I gave a list of things I wanted to be brought up to her vet. It was ruled as a UTI and nothing else. In December she started having trouble walking and I took her in that morning and told them to test her sugar. She had become "severely diabetic" as her doctor said. Her sugar was 879 I think. She was put on prozinc insulin. After almost 4 months we finally have her at a stable level at 11 twice a day. I'm not really sure how many units that is. I am still very new to all of this. She uses U-40 needles and gets 11 from the needle twice a day plus on Hill's W/D food to help her gain weight (she had lost down to 3lbs no matter how much she was eating - please don't think I am a bad pet parent. I was told to keep doing what i was doing which was giving her any food she'd eat after the blood parasite, her vet didn't think she was diabetic because her sugar was only a little high during her stay there) , her urinary tract, sugar, and digestive system.


She's doing very well now, but I am still having issues with her using the box. It is a complete hit or miss at random with her. Her vet can't find anything wrong to make her not use the box ( remember this is an issue she's always had). She said she is just a very difficult cat and to try everything I can think of. She seems to really like to use puppy pads, but it is very messy because she will think she's on it, but her booty is hanging off so it goes off the side. AND she won't poop on them, only pee. I have been trying to get her into using a box regularly to keep my home clean and healthy for everyone ( another cat and two dogs). She wants her box completely clean every single day. Replace all the litter and wash it out. She won't use the cheap litter so I can't afford to do that on my income plus her vet bill each month. I do scoop clean it twice a day and replace the litter every Tuesday. She has two boxes and my other cat has his own two boxes. The last week or two she has not wanted to use her boxes. She wants to use the bathroom on the counters, stove, and floor. I don't know what to do to help her help me. I tried a different litter after the second day of her not wanting to use the box. She hated that so I went to a different one. She seems to like it a little more, but I have also tried to block off the area she gets on the counter. Over the years I have tried different types of litter, sand, shredded paper, a puppy pad in the box, puppy pad in the box with a little litter, sand, or paper, the litter attractant herbal stuff, aroma therapy. I have no idea. When she first started this 1-2 weeks ago I thought she was being vengeful because she will get mad at you and stare you in the eye as she pees on your clothes. Then I started considering if she had a UTI, but I can't be sure of that. It smells a little off from her normal, but her eyes are clear, peeing full amount instead of tiny spots, and overall good spirits other than when she got a talking to for using the counters. I feel like I should mention she started this when I brought some succulents in and I noticed she was peeing in the pots and then trying to eat a "mini white" plant. I have had to resoil them twice now because her pee was killing them. It 100% smelled like regular cat ammonia pee in the soil then. I have since moved all the plants so she can't get to them, but she has just moved her bathroom usage to the counter and stove. I have to go to her vet to pick up more insulin today. Should I make an appointment for a possible UTI or is she just being her stubborn self? I honestly don't know.
 
After almost 4 months we finally have her at a stable level at 11 twice a day. I'm not really sure how many units that is.

11 units of insulin is an awful big dose.Twice a day, that means your cat Arizona gets 22 Units of Prozinc per day.
Most cat's only need 2 units, or perhaps a bit more, up to 4 or 5 units.
She could have a high dose condition such as Agromegaly (1 in 4 diabetic cats) and or IAA (Insulin Auto Antibodies).
Special blood tests have to be done to confirm.

plus on Hill's W/D food to help her gain weight (she had lost down to 3lbs no matter how much she was eating -
The Hill's W/d food is a weight loss food.

Should I make an appointment for a possible UTI or is she just being her stubborn self?
Yes, you certainly should.
 
she got better so they ruled it as a rare blood parasite
What blood parasite?

then I started considering if she had a UTI, but I can't be sure of that. It smells a little off from her normal, but her eyes are clear, peeing full amount instead of tiny spots, and overall good spirits other than when she got a talking to for using the counters.
Smelling off how? Sickly sweet? Like over ripe fruit? Or like nail polish remover? (acetone).

Do you test for ketones? The smell could be caused by that toxic byproduct of fat and muscle being used by the cat's body to provide energy.

Highly suggest you get some urine ketone test strips at your local pharmacy ASAP, and test her urine for ketones.
 
FIRST POST

I'll give a little preface: My cat, Arizona, will be 8 years old next month. I got her when I was 17. She is my little baby and the light of my life. She has always had issues with using litter boxes. She has always preferred to pee on smooth surfaces or cloth, while pooping on smooth surfaces. Smooth surfaces are the floor, counter, bathtub, and the last couple years the stove. It was a little more manageable when she was a kitten, but last year she got very sick with a rare blood parasite. Feline Leukemia was ruled out and they thought it was FIV at first then after two weeks inpatient, she got better so they ruled it as a rare blood parasite. In that time she was having liver failure which lead to pancreas damage, which lead to diabetes. After the blood parasite she was still having bad symptoms which had similarities to diabetes, but her vet said to give her time because she thought it was just my cat recovering. She had gotten a UTI and my mother graciously took her to the vet for me so I wouldn't miss work (working some overtime to try to pay off her vet bill). I gave a list of things I wanted to be brought up to her vet. It was ruled as a UTI and nothing else. In December she started having trouble walking and I took her in that morning and told them to test her sugar. She had become "severely diabetic" as her doctor said. Her sugar was 879 I think. She was put on prozinc insulin. After almost 4 months we finally have her at a stable level at 11 twice a day. I'm not really sure how many units that is. I am still very new to all of this. She uses U-40 needles and gets 11 from the needle twice a day plus on Hill's W/D food to help her gain weight (she had lost down to 3lbs no matter how much she was eating - please don't think I am a bad pet parent. I was told to keep doing what i was doing which was giving her any food she'd eat after the blood parasite, her vet didn't think she was diabetic because her sugar was only a little high during her stay there) , her urinary tract, sugar, and digestive system.


She's doing very well now, but I am still having issues with her using the box. It is a complete hit or miss at random with her. Her vet can't find anything wrong to make her not use the box ( remember this is an issue she's always had). She said she is just a very difficult cat and to try everything I can think of. She seems to really like to use puppy pads, but it is very messy because she will think she's on it, but her booty is hanging off so it goes off the side. AND she won't poop on them, only pee. I have been trying to get her into using a box regularly to keep my home clean and healthy for everyone ( another cat and two dogs). She wants her box completely clean every single day. Replace all the litter and wash it out. She won't use the cheap litter so I can't afford to do that on my income plus her vet bill each month. I do scoop clean it twice a day and replace the litter every Tuesday. She has two boxes and my other cat has his own two boxes. The last week or two she has not wanted to use her boxes. She wants to use the bathroom on the counters, stove, and floor. I don't know what to do to help her help me. I tried a different litter after the second day of her not wanting to use the box. She hated that so I went to a different one. She seems to like it a little more, but I have also tried to block off the area she gets on the counter. Over the years I have tried different types of litter, sand, shredded paper, a puppy pad in the box, puppy pad in the box with a little litter, sand, or paper, the litter attractant herbal stuff, aroma therapy. I have no idea. When she first started this 1-2 weeks ago I thought she was being vengeful because she will get mad at you and stare you in the eye as she pees on your clothes. Then I started considering if she had a UTI, but I can't be sure of that. It smells a little off from her normal, but her eyes are clear, peeing full amount instead of tiny spots, and overall good spirits other than when she got a talking to for using the counters. I feel like I should mention she started this when I brought some succulents in and I noticed she was peeing in the pots and then trying to eat a "mini white" plant. I have had to resoil them twice now because her pee was killing them. It 100% smelled like regular cat ammonia pee in the soil then. I have since moved all the plants so she can't get to them, but she has just moved her bathroom usage to the counter and stove. I have to go to her vet to pick up more insulin today. Should I make an appointment for a possible UTI or is she just being her stubborn self? I honestly don't know.
11 units of insulin is an awful big dose.Twice a day, that means your cat Arizona gets 22 Units of Prozinc per day.
Most cat's only need 2 units, or perhaps a bit more, up to 4 or 5 units.
She could have a high dose condition such as Agromegaly (1 in 4 diabetic cats) and or IAA (Insulin Auto Antibodies).
Special blood tests have to be done to confirm.


The Hill's W/d food is a weight loss food.


Yes, you certainly should.
Your post worked!!!


It worked! I created a post with one sentence and edited it after. I thought 11units was a lot, but it is the only way she became stable. It was a long process to even get her sugar under 200, she was going every week to get it checked and they'd increase by 1 or 2 units / dose. She said since Arizona is such a sensitive cat she's wanting to stay on it unless she isn't handling it well anymore. I go through a bottle every 3 weeks and i had read some people had bottles that lasted over 3 months.
I thought the same thing about Hill's W/D and I even asked if we needed to change her food. She said she's gaining weight well and almost too much now from the healthy food. before Hill's it was like the food wouldn't stay in her long enough to give her nutrients and it was why she couldn't gain weight. I will talk to them about an appointment when I pick up her insulin today.
 
What blood parasite?


Smelling off how? Sickly sweet? Like over ripe fruit? Or like nail polish remover? (acetone).

Do you test for ketones? The smell could be caused by that toxic byproduct of fat and muscle being used by the cat's body to provide energy.

Highly suggest you get some urine ketone test strips at your local pharmacy ASAP, and test her urine for ketones.

they said it most likely came from a infected flea and because she has a weaker immune system than most cats, it infected her while most cats wouldn't have been bothered. I was having major flea problems very suddenly with my dogs and they had gone to see the vet right before all all of this happened with her. It smells like baby pee if that makes sense? It isn't sweet like it was before. I wasn't aware I could test for ketones at home. I honestly don't much about it. Is it the crystals in the pee? I knew they tested her for those during her last stay, but i didn't know I could test at home. I honestly didn't even know I could test her blood sugar from home until reading some of the other threads here.
 
Cats avoid litter boxes because they associate them with pain.
She is not being vengeful.
Using the litter box hurts, so she goes elsewhere.

p.s. You don't have to copy the entire post to respond.
Simply start typing in the box below the last reply and then hit the "Post Reply" button.
 
Dip the urine ketone test strip in some fresh pee. Using puppy pee pads, should make that ketone testing a bit easier for you.
 
Ketones are a toxic byproduct. They most commonly form when a cat is not getting enough to eat, not enough insulin, infection/inflammation.

What happens is the cat's body catabolizes ( burns up) the fat and then the muscle tissue to provide fuel for the cat's body. Burning off that fat (and muscle) causes the formation of ketones as a byproduct.

More than a trace of ketones is life threatening. It can lead to DKA ( diabetic ketoacidosis) which involves an expensive 24 hour care vet to treat, and is often anywhere from 3-10 day stay at the vet clinic, at about $1000+ per day.

People on the "keto" diet are purposely burning off fat, to help them lose weight. Look in the diabetic supplies section of your pharmacy to find the ketone test strips. Ketodiastix also test for both ketones and glucose in the urine. Not as accurate for monitoring the cat as a blood glucose monitor.
 
Do you have BG test numbers you can share with us?

We have a standardized, color coded spreadsheet. There is a template you use to make your own copy over in your Google account. Then you attach a "view only" version to your user Id "signature" to share with us here.
Directions on setup include step by step for pc, tablet, smartphone.
FDMB Spreadsheet Instructions

What it all means is here.
Understanding the Spreadsheet/Grid
 
I also wonder if my other cat stresses her and she goes wherever she is at that moment. I do know she scared/stress poops. She'll get scared or stressed out suddenly she'll just poop. It happens a lot when she's in her carrier.

They did not tell me what kind. I think they just came to that conclusion once they 3rd or 4th antibiotic started helping her.

I will shop around to find some in my area.
 
I live in North Alabama, US.
Her poops are a normal brown color, normal consistency, but she does seem to feel the need to skid her butt across the floor.
what is a BG test?
 
Just checking for EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency) with the poop color. Dark brown is normal.

BG = blood glucose.
So any blood glucose tests that either you did at home, or blood glucose checks that were done at the vet.

Your vet raised the insulin dose based on what sort of test results?
Glucometer tests done at the vet office? Which glucometer?
Lab test results done in-house at the vet clinic?
Lab test results done at an outside lab such as Idexx or Antech?
How long after insulin? Where the blood tests done?
Based on that possibly stress induced number from the vet's office?
 
Hi and welcome from someone whose cat had both the conditions Deb mentioned earlier, acromegaly and insulin auto antibodies (think allergy to injected insulin). The former is a benign tumour on the pituitary sending out excess growth hormone, and generally messing with the endocrine system causing diabetes. In many cats it means higher doses.

Is that WD food wet or dry food?

Skidding butt on floor often means anal sacs need expressing. Mention the butt scooting to the vet.
 
She was given both wet and dry, but I only give her the dry because the wet makes her poop a little loose. My vet offered the vet since she does prefer it to dry food and she was eating so aggressively that she'd choke, but I was putting warm water in her dry food and letting it sit a minute before giving it to her. Her eating has calmed down and now she eats the plain dry food with no issue.
for the butt scooting, I've mentioned it to my vet and she has no idea why she does it. She examined her after it was mentioned at one of her sugar check appointments. She's been wormed and has no evidence of worms in her poop now. It is like there's a little bit stuck on her butt after a bowel movement and she needs to get it off because sometimes it leaves a mark. It ONLY happens after she poops. I have a dog who occasionally has gland issues and I noticed he'll scoot randomly to help soothe it when he is having issues so I hadn't even considered that since she's so systematic with it.
 
Sounds like inflamed or impacted anal glands.
Is the poop too hard, too soft or just right?

Does she have long hair around her anus, and the poop is sticking to the hair?
She doesn't look like a long haired cat in your avatar, but I thought I'd ask.

Morgan, would you please add information to your User Id Profile?
Signature instructions.

Sure would love you to take 60 seconds and put some helpful information in your User Id profile, including the "Signature" portion.

Go to the top right corner of the screen, click on your user name, a drop down list will appear, select "Signature" from that list. Start typing in the text box that appears and be sure to click on the "Save Changes" button at the end of the text box.

Information like your first name, your cat's name age and sex, DX: (diagnosis date), insulin used, meter used (when you get one), food fed, and then the SS (spreadsheet) link when you get that setup are so, so helpful to those of us responding to members. That signature information will be "magically" attached at the end of all your posts. Signature and other user profile information can be updated as needed.

While you are there, editing your user profile, if you could update your profile to include your location, that is helpful also.
 
She is short hair. and has had no issues with her poop unless she gets a hold of the dogs' food, but I try my best to just lock her out of the room while they are eating. Her poop is very normal in color and consistency.

I will complete the profile. I was trying to remember all of her information from her sugar checks over the last 4 months to do the spreadsheet like you asked, and I can't remember them for the life of me. My grandmother was taking her for her tests since it was just a test and I'd have to take an entire day off of work each week.
 
On the spreadsheet, simply make notes that you don't have all the sugar checks before now.

Start the SS with whatever data you do have. Then you can put in some rough dates of when you think the dose increases were done, and how much those increases were each time.

I'm going to tag someone that is familiar with high dose conditions. To comment on your thread.
@Wendy&Neko
p.s. Signature looks great by the way. Thanks for doing that.
 
Your meter should have a record of any tests in at least the last couple weeks. That’s a good start.

WD dry is horribly high in carbs. Brewers yeast and corn the first two ingredients, chicken is listed sixth. Feeding a high carb food can greatly increase the amount of insulin needed. Even the wet WD is 25% carbs. Under 10% is recommended for diabetics.
 
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