? Terry. Doesn't have 2 shootable numbers

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Fabiënne

Fabiënne

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would you please take a look at my ss?
Terry is doing great! But.....

I don't have two shootable numbers a day. Either am or pm is low( green or light blue ;)) . I can't shoot that numbers. But if i don't shoot ( or shoot less) his bg goes op eventually.
If I decrease the dose to get shootable numbers it seems like he doesn't want to drop at all.

What do you think??
 
I just want to add that Fabiënne already tried the 13/11 methode and that didn't work for Terry. He just got PM's or AM's that were too low to shoot.
 
I see what you mean. Teasel is similar. I avoid sliding scale dosing with Teasel because he's too unpredictable. I see that Fabienne has tried holding doses and has used sliding scale and Terry is still jumping around. I have no definite advice other than to say my approach with a kitty like Teasel (and Terry?) is to avoid changing too many things by too much too close together. It seems that 2.5 u is a fairly good dose for now even though there are still stalls and different AM/PMPSs.

Another person on here got advice from her vet (who consulted another vet at a university) to give enough insulin to get numbers down and use higher carb food to control the drops. That person was told that the drops are from the pancreas putting out a little insulin now and again that adds to the dose of insulin and drops the numbers. I have that idea in my head for Teasel: be a little more brave with dosing and be ready to give a small high carb gravy food snack to control things.
 
Hmmmm...that's a tough one. There is a technique where you can "chase the numbers"...essentially testing until you find the number you want to shoot at and then shooting. In this case, you may not be shooting every 12 hours...it can be wildly different.

This particular technique is a tough one though because you have to be home to check the numbers and there's no sort of schedule. I'll try to look up more info on it...I never did it and I can't recall who last did. It's not an easy thing, but maybe an option.
 
Rachel said:
Hmmmm...that's a tough one. There is a technique where you can "chase the numbers"...essentially testing until you find the number you want to shoot at and then shooting. In this case, you may not be shooting every 12 hours...it can be wildly different.

This particular technique is a tough one though because you have to be home to check the numbers and there's no sort of schedule. I'll try to look up more info on it...I never did it and I can't recall who last did. It's not an easy thing, but maybe an option.
Click to expand...

I think that could be the trick for Terry. Shoot when he needs it, but I am afraid that is not possible to fit in. Than we might be ending shooting in the nights or during a day, but I have to work also....
 
Looks like we have some info about it in the Advanced Technique sticky. Maybe check that out and then let us know what questions you have?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I see what you mean. Teasel is similar. I avoid sliding scale dosing with Teasel because he's too unpredictable. I see that Fabienne has tried holding doses and has used sliding scale and Terry is still jumping around. I have no definite advice other than to say my approach with a kitty like Teasel (and Terry?) is to avoid changing too many things by too much too close together. It seems that 2.5 u is a fairly good dose for now even though there are still stalls and different AM/PMPSs.

Another person on here got advice from her vet (who consulted another vet at a university) to give enough insulin to get numbers down and use higher carb food to control the drops. That person was told that the drops are from the pancreas putting out a little insulin now and again that adds to the dose of insulin and drops the numbers. I have that idea in my head for Teasel: be a little more brave with dosing and be ready to give a small high carb gravy food snack to control things.
Click to expand...
That sounds interesting Kris. More carbfood to avoid drops. But then you have to be home and monitor all the time....
But the strange thing is since I adjusted Terry's food ( from raw food, to low carb wet food) he is doing better. So it lookes like he just needs some carbs.
Maybe decreasing a little bit like you said might help. I tried that but maybe I did not hold that dose long enough
 
I have read the sticky and understand. I really think this could help to get and keep him in good numbers but I don't see how I can fit this method in. It requires a lot of monitoring and testing.

I think I reduce the dose a bit for now and keep that dose for a few cycles to see what happens.
 
Chasing the number definitely takes a lot of time on your part.

I would reduce the dose. It looks like 2.6 is too much even for a red because it gives you an unshootable pmps. How about reducing to 2.4 or even 2.2 on the reds and pinks and see if the pmps lowers? If it is overall higher then than you want, increase by tiny increments - maybe a fat dose of the last one tried. I agree with Kris that your sliding scale had variances that may have been too different in amounts.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Chasing the number definitely takes a lot of time on your part.

I would reduce the dose. It looks like 2.6 is too much even for a red because it gives you an unshootable pmps. How about reducing to 2.4 or even 2.2 on the reds and pinks and see if the pmps lowers? If it is overall higher then than you want, increase by tiny increments - maybe a fat dose of the last one tried. I agree with Kris that your sliding scale had variances that may have been too different in amounts.
Click to expand...

Thanks Sue! I will lower the dose, I am doubting to shoot 2.2 or 2.4 maybe a bigger decrease (2.2)would be better and see what happens from there. but untill now he didn't drop at midcycles on lower doses.
What would you suggest if he still shows a unshootable number now and then? Don't shoot or shoot less?
 
Fabiënne said:
That sounds interesting Kris. More carbfood to avoid drops. But then you have to be home and monitor all the time....
But the strange thing is since I adjusted Terry's food ( from raw food, to low carb wet food) he is doing better. So it lookes like he just needs some carbs.
Maybe decreasing a little bit like you said might help. I tried that but maybe I did not hold that dose long enough
Click to expand...
Some cats do better with some carbs in the diet. And yes to maybe holding the dose a bit longer.

I read what Rachel said about "chasing the numbers" and I understand the intent. However, I'm not sure it can be done by someone who needs to be at work or wants some sort of life outside of monitoring and dosing their FD kitty. We all need some balance in life to stay sane.
 
Fabiënne said:
Thanks Sue! I will lower the dose, I am doubting to shoot 2.2 or 2.4 maybe a bigger decrease (2.2)would be better and see what happens from there. but untill now he didn't drop at midcycles on lower doses.
What would you suggest if he still shows a unshootable number now and then? Don't shoot or shoot less?
Click to expand...
At this point in your experience with Terry you have enough data to avoid no shot unless the PS is very low. You can stall or if there isn't enough time, give a much smaller dose (maybe 30 -50% of the usual?). The more you do this the more data you'll have for those situations.
 
I agree with Kris, but would be sure the first time you shoot a low range, you plan to monitor. People shoot 150-180 after they have the data for the first time doing it. I would be uncomfortable shooting under 150, but people do. As always - your cat, you hold the syringe. But I would want to be around. As you know, 150 gives you only a cushion of 100 before hypo range.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
At this point in your experience with Terry you have enough data to avoid no shot unless the PS is very low. You can stall or if there isn't enough time, give a much smaller dose (maybe 30 -50% of the usual?). The more you do this the more data you'll have for those situations.
Click to expand...

Thanks Kris!
I tries two drops on low numbers but that did not work
This morning I shot 0,4 on a low amps that seemed to be not enough. But two weeks earlier he dropped low (2.9) at the same dose. So it's a bit of a search what would be a good and safe dose to shoot.
But if the decrease works out the wat we hope, I would not have that dilemma.
 
Fabiënne said:
Thanks Kris!
I tries two drops on low numbers but that did not work
This morning I shot 0,4 on a low amps that seemed to be not enough. But two weeks earlier he dropped low (2.9) at the same dose. So it's a bit of a search what would be a good and safe dose to shoot.
But if the decrease works out the wat we hope, I would not have that dilemma.
Click to expand...
All we can do is try different doses and keep a log of results. Cats like Terry and Teasel and a few others on here, will always keep us guessing. Methods like sliding scale dosing, deciding on a dose because two weeks ago it dropped BG by "x" amount on the same PS, etc. aren't as reliable as they are for more predictable cats. We'll always be guessing more and going by "feel" more than people with "easier" kitties. :confused:
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I agree with Kris, but would be sure the first time you shoot a low range, you plan to monitor. People shoot 150-180 after they have the data for the first time doing it. I would be uncomfortable shooting under 150, but people do. As always - your cat, you hold the syringe. But I would want to be around. As you know, 150 gives you only a cushion of 100 before hypo range.
Click to expand...

Yes I agree. Under 150 I only shoot when I am around to monitor him. And I always check if his bg isn't still dropping. Two weeks ago when he dropped to 2.9 (52) I did not go te sleep before I was absolutely sure that he did not drop any further. And in the range between 150 and 200 I also don't dare to shoot the normal dose.
 
This is Terry's 5th day on the decreased dose (2.2) . And he's doing great! So great that from the fives days he still had 2 non shootable pmps. And he was 1 time very near to the dangerzone...
So we have decided to decrease again (2 .0)
I am happy :cat:

Hopefully he will continue this! I can't wait to decrease again ;)
( But I know, this is my weird Terry so tomorrow it can be different :D)
 
Fabiënne said:
This is Terry's 5th day on the decreased dose (2.2) . And he's doing great! So great that from the fives days he still had 2 non shootable pmps. And he was 1 time very near to the dangerzone...
So we have decided to decrease again (2 .0)
I am happy :cat:

Hopefully he will continue this! I can't wait to decrease again ;)
( But I know, this is my weird Terry so tomorrow it can be different :D)
Click to expand...
Doing well, Fabienne. I know how it is with our kitties - enjoy the good numbers while you have them! :)
 
And again not shootable on 2 IU :joyful: .
Although it looks like a late nadir. His midcycle was a bit higher than amps. But that happens very often. He never had such good numbers on this dose of insulin!
Still happy and hoping he keeps up this good work
 
Fabiënne said:
And again not shootable on 2 IU :joyful: .
Although it looks like a late nadir. His midcycle was a bit higher than amps. But that happens very often. He never had such good numbers on this dose of insulin!
Still happy and hoping he keeps up this good work
Click to expand...
This is great, Fabienne! I think this shows that Terry is responding better to the insulin so the "good dose" is coming down. :bighug:
 
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