? Terry and Mr P ?

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Fabiënne

Fabiënne

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Hi all!

I am really lost right now.
Just when I thought I found the right manual, I turn the page , are the words suddenly written in Russian:nailbiting:

Yesterday morning he had a real nice number 211!!
I tested +4 he got up to 322. At +8 313.
In the evening I could not shoot because of a night out. I got home 17 hours after the last ( morning) shot and was expecting a really high number . Surprise! 261.
This morning 24 hours after last shot 266.
That is really strange isn't it? After shot he goes up and stays up for at least 8 hours , then drops and stays there with no insulin in his body.

What do you think? His midcycles are often higher than pms. So probably late nadir, but it looks like he can stabilize by him self. Could it be the prozinc works longer or even the opposite ( get's him higher and after that his own body gets him down) . Or is this Mr P ( more likely) , but if it is maybe we should lower the dose to give him a chance to keep acting? Mr P visites sometimes but mostly short visites with lower numbers, and now a somewhat higher number but it stays that way for a while.

Who can translate the russian for me ? ;)

@Kris & Teasel @Ruby&Baco @Rachel @Sue and Oliver (GA) @Bobbie And Bubba @Alexi
 
It is hard to translate Russian :woot::p I'm going to sit back and watch the others to comment because I can't crack this code....... :( hopefully others can!
 
Sorry Fabienne, I only know English and a little bit of French. I think your theory about Terry's pancreas waking up now and then is a good one. When it does work maybe it adds its effect to the insulin you're injecting so it's like Terry is getting a dose that varies hour to hour. That could explain the ups and down over the course of a day. This makes it hard for you.

Your SS isn't showing any scary low numbers so I suggest you choose a dose that's reasonable for the average BGs you're seeing. Try to ignore the ups and downs as you look at the SS because they complicate the picture. Go with that dose for a few cycles to see what happens. Raise/lower it as average numbers and SS colours show you. My own approach is to reduce the number of variables as much as I can. Terry's numbers are going up and down strangely - probably a good sign - but if you add to that too much dose changing the picture becomes impossible to judge. That's my two cents for what it's worth ...

Now go find a Russian translator for Terry. :)
 
Thanks Kris!

So you think it is not nescessary to decrease again?
I decreased after the bounce and made 3 categories for dosing. I now shoot 2,5 for numbers between 11-13 , 2,6 for numbers between 13-16 and 2,7 for numbers above 16. Do you think that's oke? Or is it better to have two doses like before?
His +6 was 11.3 now BTW.
 
Fabiënne said:
Thanks Kris!

So you think it is not nescessary to decrease again?
I decreased after the bounce and made 3 categories for dosing. I now shoot 2,5 for numbers between 11-13 , 2,6 for numbers between 13-16 and 2,7 for numbers above 16. Do you think that's oke? Or is it better to have two doses like before?
His +6 was 11.3 now BTW.
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I don't really know what to say, Fabienne because I don't have much experience with a sliding scale. So far I haven't used one with Teasel because he's too unpredictable. I stick with a dose for a few cycles to see its effect and only go up or down as needed. You could keep doing what you've been doing or try maybe 2.6 u both AM and PM for a few cycles to see what happens.
 
I think it is very possible that the Prozinc has a long duration of action for Terry - which may explain why he held his numbers. What I have found with Cappuccino is that she gets the odd pre-shot higher number but I try to ignore these and concentrate on what has happened the last week or 2 weeks. Her specialist thinks she is a cat who does get a long duration so we have abandoned trying sliding scale in favour of a fixed dose, I did try reducing but have had to go back up in dose when it was clear the reduction wasn't helping. When I have to skip a dose I give her usual dose the next shot and can get her back on track fairly quickly - so she gets a good response but still needs some insulin. I wonder if it would be worth as Kris says to hold a dose for several cycles and then try to get a curve on a day with a consistent pre-shot number to see what is happening over a cycle, you should then be able to base dosing decisions on that data and try some consistent doses for a while to see if that helps.
 
I have no brilliant translation either - could be the pancreas, could be that he needs a dose reduction. I am with everyone to hold a safe dose and collect data and see if you see some clearer patterns.

But good news regardless!
 
Thank you all for your advice!

I'm gonna go with your advice Kris and Alexi.
I will keep the dose 2.6 for all shootable number. So no sliding scale. And I will try to make a curve this week.

Maybe then his manual automatically changes into English or Dutch :p;)
 
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Hey Fabienne ~ It's hard to really know what is happening because there were three nights in a row without any data and it's possible he is dropping lower and bouncing around. I know it's hard to get in night time test but if you could try to get in a few more it might be helpful info as regard to some of the unexplained wobbling numbers.

I agree with Kris in trying to hold the dose and remove some of the variables to see if a pattern will reveal.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hey Fabienne ~ It's hard to really know what is happening because there were three nights in a row without any data and it's possible he is dropping lower and bouncing around. I know it's hard to get in night time test but if you could try to get in a few more it might be helpful info as regard to some of the unexplained wobbling numbers.

I agree with Kris in trying to hold the dose and remove some of the variables to see if a pattern will reveal.
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Hi Bobbie,
The nights are really dificult to test. Will the nights be very different from the days? I can test before going to bed. That will be round +3 /4 . I did that for a while but I had the feeling that wasn't very useful because most of the times his bg was higher than pmps ( foodspike)
The most useful I think is +6/7 but that's in the middle of the night.
 
Yes, the nights for a lot of kitties are a lower cycle. What ever you can get will be good info. The mid cycle times will tell you how low he goes. If you ever get up during the night to go to the bathroom, grab a test. Guess I am showing my age......LOL
 
If you don't get up in the night on your own you might set an alarm if you can. Not every night but just once in awhile to see what's going on then. I did that every so often though I usually woke on my own!
 
Hi Fabienne,
I looked at your SS and I think you should try 2.7 or 2.8 u for 2 days for AM and PM dose. You did 4 cycles at 2.6 u and the numbers say it's not enough. I still like the idea of keeping the same dose AM and PM at least for now.
 
Hmmm after the nice amps his +6 is 367....

What happens? I think it wasn't a squirrel. His pupils are real large. So I think he is bouncing again. Is the dose to high now or should I ignore this?
 
Fabiënne said:
Hmmm after the nice amps his +6 is 367....

What happens? I think it wasn't a squirrel. His pupils are real large. So I think he is bouncing again. Is the dose to high now or should I ignore this?
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It's a bounce from the nice AMPS I think. I say stick with 2.7 for the next cycle or two. He's had only one dose of this amount.
 
I wanted to add that by the numbers from yesterday and today I would increase too 2.8 to get him a little bit lower.. curious to hear what others think about that?
 
Hmm could you please check my sheet? Today was a really strange day. Amps non shootable, within a hour his bg was high , so I shot him 2.7. After that he dropped slow, and pmps was non shootable again, but stayed low on only 2 drops.
I think I better not increase yet.... or should I ignore this? This is so confusing :confused:
 
If I understand you, you stalled in the AM for 1 hour, fed, then tested and got 19.1 for BG? It's possible the pink and two yellows are mild bounce numbers and then the last of the 2.7 u gave you the 9.3. It's hard to know what's going on because you did some testing close to a meal.

If your no shoot number is 10, say, and you got 9.6 as AMPS, that's a tricky decision-making moment. You can either do the safest thing - no shot at all - or you can stall about 20 minutes without feeding and retest. You might have to repeat this for another 20 minutes. If the BG has risen enough you can then give the usual dose. If you feed and stall it's impossible to know what's going on.
If you don't have time to stall and don't want Terry to miss a dose, the third option is to give a smaller dose, say 50% of the usual.

Finally, the low-ish AMPS might be telling you that 2.7 u is either a tiny bit too high or that it's a "breakthrough" dose for Terry. If you can do extra testing you might try giving this dose again and monitor carefully.
 
My non shooting number is 11. Normally when he is a bit under that I stall for 20 minutes without food. But now I did not expect to get a shootable number after 20 minutes so I fed him. I tested an hour later to see what had happend. This morning his amps was 12.2. Normally I shoot at that number but I had a feeling that he was still dropping so I stall without food. 20 minutes later he dropped to 11.6. (Still shootable) I could not stall any longer so I gave him his meal. Right after that before shooting I tested again to be sure. 13.4. That might be the food. But I think that if he was still dropping it should be lower so I shot 2.7.
 
Fabiënne said:
My non shooting number is 11. Normally when he is a bit under that I stall for 20 minutes without food. But now I did not expect to get a shootable number after 20 minutes so I fed him. I tested an hour later to see what had happend. This morning his amps was 12.2. Normally I shoot at that number but I had a feeling that he was still dropping so I stall without food. 20 minutes later he dropped to 11.6. (Still shootable) I could not stall any longer so I gave him his meal. Right after that before shooting I tested again to be sure. 13.4. That might be the food. But I think that if he was still dropping it should be lower so I shot 2.7.
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You have to do what you're comfortable doing and what keeps Terry safe. :)
 
Terry keeps surprising me... today I tested a +10 (16.1)that was higher than +6( 11.2) But after that he began dropping. Pmps 14.8. If i had not test the +10 I would have shot 2.65. But now I decided to stall. I did have to feed him because he was planning on eating me If I didn't ;).
An hour later his bg was 12.1 . ( with food! )
I am now stalling an extra hour because I don't know If he will drop more.
He isn't anywhere near stable the last few days ( in a good way because this looks like Mr P ) . But what should I do ? Did I do right to stall? Or should I have shot? ( number was high enough)
Do I have to decrease?
I am a bit lost... help me please....:nailbiting:
 
Hi Fabienne,

I wouldn't worry too much about these ups and downs. They're all yellows so it doesn't look like bouncing, it looks like 2.65 u is a tiny bit too low. You could stick with it a cycle or two more or try 2.7 u again. I don't think the stall made a big difference.
 
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Kris & Teasel said:
He's making you work hard, isn't he, Fabienne? Teasel has been weird lately as well. :confused:
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Haha yes he keeps surprising me. But in a good way. But it doesn't make it easy to figure it out ;)

Teasel has some nice blue pmps numbers also!! It's almost impossible to dose that numbers the right way, so they show nice numbers in the mornings also.... Teasel and Terry seem to be acting the same...
 
@Kris & Teasel how funny is this! Fabiënne is going to start the 13/11 method tomorrow and I just saw in your sheet that you are doing that also with Teasel! Hahaha Terry and Teasel are much alike :joyful:
 
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