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Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Guest
On the bag of U40 syringes,there is a note that says "not for human use". Why would that be? Could they be used in an emergency?
Carl
Carl
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Lisa and Witn (GA)
Very Active Member
Human insulin comes in 100 units/ml. Insulins specifically made for pets comes in 40 units/ml. Different syringes are used for each type of insulin. The u40 syringes are designed to work for pet insulins.
However, I believe there is a conversion chart somewhere on this site that tells you how to convert your insulin dosages between a u100 and u40 syringe. If you were to use this to convert your u100 insulin to a u40 dose, technically you could use a u40 syringe for human use.
However, I believe there is a conversion chart somewhere on this site that tells you how to convert your insulin dosages between a u100 and u40 syringe. If you were to use this to convert your u100 insulin to a u40 dose, technically you could use a u40 syringe for human use.
C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Guest
Ok. Details.
An hour ago, a lady comes into the campground store and she's freaked out because her insulin plunger or whatever it's called kicked the bucket. She's here on vacation and it'll take two days to get a new one shipped to her, so she's looking for a few syringes. My wife, who manages the store says "hey, our cat has diabetes, and we have syringes at home". So she calls me at home, and I talk to the lady.
I asked her what type of insulin she uses. She says "Humulin". I said "no, is it u40 or u100?" and she says "U40". I said, "Okay, cuz that's really important. I have U40 syringes, and you need to be sure to use U40 insulin with U40 syringes". She said "okay".
A park ranger came by and picked up a bag of 10 from me. In the meantime, I had called my vet since the bag said "not for human use". They could not recommend human use (I understand, legal reasons and such), and that it was important to make sure the "U" matched. I told the ranger who was going to deliver them to strongly indicate to her that
A - she had to be really sure her insulin was U40, or she could over or under dose.
B - if she had any uncertainty at all, she needed to call her doctor to see if she needed to adjust her dose due to using a U40 syringe.
Me, I would have called my doctor first, and asked him where I could get syringes locally. There's 2 drug stores within 20 miles of here.
My question - if you use U100 insulin and draw up 1 unit into a u40 syringe, is that going to be more, or less, insulin than it would be in a u100 syringe. Would you "hyper" or "hypo"?
Carl
An hour ago, a lady comes into the campground store and she's freaked out because her insulin plunger or whatever it's called kicked the bucket. She's here on vacation and it'll take two days to get a new one shipped to her, so she's looking for a few syringes. My wife, who manages the store says "hey, our cat has diabetes, and we have syringes at home". So she calls me at home, and I talk to the lady.
I asked her what type of insulin she uses. She says "Humulin". I said "no, is it u40 or u100?" and she says "U40". I said, "Okay, cuz that's really important. I have U40 syringes, and you need to be sure to use U40 insulin with U40 syringes". She said "okay".
A park ranger came by and picked up a bag of 10 from me. In the meantime, I had called my vet since the bag said "not for human use". They could not recommend human use (I understand, legal reasons and such), and that it was important to make sure the "U" matched. I told the ranger who was going to deliver them to strongly indicate to her that
A - she had to be really sure her insulin was U40, or she could over or under dose.
B - if she had any uncertainty at all, she needed to call her doctor to see if she needed to adjust her dose due to using a U40 syringe.
Me, I would have called my doctor first, and asked him where I could get syringes locally. There's 2 drug stores within 20 miles of here.
My question - if you use U100 insulin and draw up 1 unit into a u40 syringe, is that going to be more, or less, insulin than it would be in a u100 syringe. Would you "hyper" or "hypo"?
Carl
Karen & Angus(GA)
Active Member
First, there is no U40 Humilin. ALL currently used human insulins are U100. If she draws to her normal line on a U40 syringe, she will be getting 2.5 times her normal dose of insulin and may hypo! If you can, contact the lady/ranger immediately and let them know.
C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Guest
Actually just got off the phone with her. When the ranger dropped off the syringes, my message got confused so she called me for clarification.
She had no clue. I told her that human insulin was usually (always?) U100. I explained to her that she would not be able to get the dosage right unless she was using a U40 with U40 insulin, and a U100 with U100 insulin. She didn't know what the U value of her insulin was. How can you not know that? I guess if human insulin is always U100, you'd have no clue there even was another type?
What I told her was that she needed to call her doctor, and explain that she had been able to get U40 syringes, and could she use them, and if so, what should she pull up into the syringe to make sure that the dose was correct. I further suggested that she call him and ask if he could call in a scrip to the local walgreens for a bag of syringes that were the correct type.
I told her that I would rather she got it right without a doubt, because that would be much better for her than having me or another ranger being called out in the middle of the night to her campsite to deal with a hypo incident.
It was sort of sad really, because in talking with her, she didn't really seem to understand her condition. I asked her what her normal dose was and she said "45 or 50". I thought "what??? She'd need a hand bike tire pump to hold that much insulin!" I'm guessing she meant 4.5 or 5? I asked her what "normal" for her was and she said 80-100. I remarked that I'd tested myself a couple days ago and got a 102, and she said "well, you need to get that checked. My doctor told me anything over 105 and I needed to put away the Lil' Debbie Cakes". Isn't 102 or 105 in the acceptable "normal" range?
Anyway, thanks for the quick replies. I've done what I can to advise her the right things to do with respect to contacting her doctor before doing anything. It is so great to know that anytime anyone has a question that needs a quick response, you all are there.
Carl
She had no clue. I told her that human insulin was usually (always?) U100. I explained to her that she would not be able to get the dosage right unless she was using a U40 with U40 insulin, and a U100 with U100 insulin. She didn't know what the U value of her insulin was. How can you not know that? I guess if human insulin is always U100, you'd have no clue there even was another type?
What I told her was that she needed to call her doctor, and explain that she had been able to get U40 syringes, and could she use them, and if so, what should she pull up into the syringe to make sure that the dose was correct. I further suggested that she call him and ask if he could call in a scrip to the local walgreens for a bag of syringes that were the correct type.
I told her that I would rather she got it right without a doubt, because that would be much better for her than having me or another ranger being called out in the middle of the night to her campsite to deal with a hypo incident.
It was sort of sad really, because in talking with her, she didn't really seem to understand her condition. I asked her what her normal dose was and she said "45 or 50". I thought "what??? She'd need a hand bike tire pump to hold that much insulin!" I'm guessing she meant 4.5 or 5? I asked her what "normal" for her was and she said 80-100. I remarked that I'd tested myself a couple days ago and got a 102, and she said "well, you need to get that checked. My doctor told me anything over 105 and I needed to put away the Lil' Debbie Cakes". Isn't 102 or 105 in the acceptable "normal" range?
Anyway, thanks for the quick replies. I've done what I can to advise her the right things to do with respect to contacting her doctor before doing anything. It is so great to know that anytime anyone has a question that needs a quick response, you all are there.
Carl
LynnLee + Mousie
Very Active Member
human doses can be that high actually. i have a friend that at one point was getting 80 units i think it was. thankfully he's finally listening and working on getting his diabetes under control and that dose has been dropped to i believe last time i asked him down into the 30 unit range.
i think her getting a scrip called in is a wonderful idea. while one could probably make do with the u40 syringes, in this particular case i doubt it is wise to do so unless someone did the math and the drawing up of the insulin for her. plus, that 29 gauge u40 is gonna feel a bit different to her than what she's used to i bet.
i think her getting a scrip called in is a wonderful idea. while one could probably make do with the u40 syringes, in this particular case i doubt it is wise to do so unless someone did the math and the drawing up of the insulin for her. plus, that 29 gauge u40 is gonna feel a bit different to her than what she's used to i bet.
Karen & Angus(GA)
Active Member
Yes, human doses of insulin can be that high. Remember, an average human is 15 - 20 times the size of the average cat!
As for your 102 reading, it depends on when you took it and if that is a one time reading or an average reading. I have seen normal ranges for humans listed as 70 -110, 80 - 120, and <100. Your fasting BG should average less than 100. If you are worried, decrease your refined carb intake and increase your exercise.
As for your 102 reading, it depends on when you took it and if that is a one time reading or an average reading. I have seen normal ranges for humans listed as 70 -110, 80 - 120, and <100. Your fasting BG should average less than 100. If you are worried, decrease your refined carb intake and increase your exercise.
Deb415andNikki
Active Member
Hi Carl, and, of course, you too, sweet Bob,
Here's a link to Lisa and Gorb's U40/U100 conversion chart/calculator. You know, just in case that lady decides to visit heaven on earth again...
http://gorbzilla.com/conversion_calculator.htm
I've been sadly blessed to know a few human diabetics. I say sadly, because no on wants this disease. Blessed because, unlike cats, they do speak English. They are often amazed at my knowledge and understanding of this disease. I'm constantly amazed and grateful that they speak English!
Nikki and I are working on English. She definitely knows the word, NOW! I remember the day I strolled into the kitchen and found Giz on the table. We were both pretty stunned. She had that oh crap/caught look on her face, looked me straight in the eye and said, "mommy". I asked, what did you just say? She held her gaze and said, "mommy". Maybe there's a reason cats shouldn't speak English...
Love and hugs for you Bob,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, forever dancing in my heart...
Here's a link to Lisa and Gorb's U40/U100 conversion chart/calculator. You know, just in case that lady decides to visit heaven on earth again...
http://gorbzilla.com/conversion_calculator.htm
I've been sadly blessed to know a few human diabetics. I say sadly, because no on wants this disease. Blessed because, unlike cats, they do speak English. They are often amazed at my knowledge and understanding of this disease. I'm constantly amazed and grateful that they speak English!
Nikki and I are working on English. She definitely knows the word, NOW! I remember the day I strolled into the kitchen and found Giz on the table. We were both pretty stunned. She had that oh crap/caught look on her face, looked me straight in the eye and said, "mommy". I asked, what did you just say? She held her gaze and said, "mommy". Maybe there's a reason cats shouldn't speak English...
Love and hugs for you Bob,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, forever dancing in my heart...
Squeaky and KT (GA)
Very Active Member
Walmart Pharmacies carry U100 syringes. If there's a walgren's there, and she hasn't gotten her Dr. yet, she can take her insulin bottle in and they'll match needles to it.
Karen & Smokey(GA)
Very Active Member
If her dose of U100 insulin is 50 units, multiply that by .40 and draw to that
line on a U-40 syringe:
50 x .40 = 20 unit-mark on a U-40 syringe.
That's because each unit line on a U-40 syringe is 2.5 times as much liquid volume
as on a U-100 syringe.
Usually we do the conversion the other way, using U-100 syringes for U-40 insulin.
1 unit of U-40 x 2.5 = 2.5 unit-mark on a U-100 syringe.
Here's a little chart for her.
40 units of U-100 insulin x .40 = 16 unit mark on U-40 syringe.
45 units of U-100 insulin x .40 = 18 unit mark on U-40 syringe.
50 units of U-100 insulin x .40 = 20 unit mark on U-40 syringe.
55 units of U-100 insulin x .40 = 22 unit mark on U-40 syringe.
The reason they state not for human use is because ALL insulin for humans is U-100 (in the USA).
Each unit-mark on a U-40 syringe is 2.5 times more liquid volume than a single unit-mark on a U-100 syringe
and if not understood, could result in a big over-dose of insulin.
When you asked her if her Humulin was U40, she must have confused that terminology with
'40-units'....in the range of her normal dose of 40-50 units.
Thanks for trying to help the lady.
line on a U-40 syringe:
50 x .40 = 20 unit-mark on a U-40 syringe.
That's because each unit line on a U-40 syringe is 2.5 times as much liquid volume
as on a U-100 syringe.
Usually we do the conversion the other way, using U-100 syringes for U-40 insulin.
1 unit of U-40 x 2.5 = 2.5 unit-mark on a U-100 syringe.
Here's a little chart for her.
40 units of U-100 insulin x .40 = 16 unit mark on U-40 syringe.
45 units of U-100 insulin x .40 = 18 unit mark on U-40 syringe.
50 units of U-100 insulin x .40 = 20 unit mark on U-40 syringe.
55 units of U-100 insulin x .40 = 22 unit mark on U-40 syringe.
The reason they state not for human use is because ALL insulin for humans is U-100 (in the USA).
Each unit-mark on a U-40 syringe is 2.5 times more liquid volume than a single unit-mark on a U-100 syringe
and if not understood, could result in a big over-dose of insulin.
When you asked her if her Humulin was U40, she must have confused that terminology with
'40-units'....in the range of her normal dose of 40-50 units.
Thanks for trying to help the lady.
C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Guest
Follow up.
First, thanks for the chart!
I did speak one last time to her, and right after that, she did speak with her doctor. I don't know what course they chose (either adjusting the dose down and using my syringes or going to get U100 syringes) but at least I was able to make sure that she did one or the other.
I realize now that human diabetics have no need to know that there are two different types of insulin concentration, since they'd never use U40. It's only us who need to know that!
Carl
First, thanks for the chart!
I did speak one last time to her, and right after that, she did speak with her doctor. I don't know what course they chose (either adjusting the dose down and using my syringes or going to get U100 syringes) but at least I was able to make sure that she did one or the other.
I realize now that human diabetics have no need to know that there are two different types of insulin concentration, since they'd never use U40. It's only us who need to know that!
Carl
Karen & Smokey(GA)
Very Active Member
carlinsc said:
Yup...we cat people know a bunch of that "trivia" !
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