Suzie stated on Prozinc last night !@

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traceyg

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Suzie started on Prozinc last night. I was very pleased with Dr Fry. She did a nice long exam took blood tests etc. Her kidneys are okay I was relieved to find that out. She has a massive infection. They gave her an antibiotic shot for that. She was at 308 this at 3 when I gave the prozinc. Now she is at 255 5 hours later. Now a big drop but better then the humlin and she was under a lot of stress most of the night

Dr Fry put her on another blood pressure pill because she doesn't think the one she is on now is working. I need to go get that today. Suzie still feels pretty lousy but i think in a few days she will be feeling a lot better. Venetia brought some prozinc along which I am very grateful for otherwise we would have had to wait to start Suzie. Suzie took right to her which I thought was kind of cute. When they drew the blood Venetia stayed in with Suzie. I was to coward. She is my baby after all.

Suzie had a rough night last night. She was through a lot yesterday but now she has a chance.

Thanks to the Venetia and the people here. Without Venetia driving I never would have been able to get Suzie to Dr Fry. I don't think Suzie would have survived Dr J. I am sorry to say.

We are not sure what the eye thing is. Her one eye won't dilate. Her retina isn't torn. Dr fry thinks is may be a brain tumor but I don't think so. I think it may be the high blood pressure not under control.

Anyway I am looking forward to Suzie feeling better and I am so grateful and so is Suzie for all the help here. I am not used to be on the receiving end of the help but when it comes to Suzie or any of my cats. Well just thank you. I know we are not out of the woods yet but now she has got a fighting chance!
 
I'm so glad the visit with Dr. Fry went well. Do you know what the antibiotic shot was? A nice gentle drop in BGs will get her off that roller coaster!

You said the pupil won't dilate? Will it constrict? (In your post about her eyes, you said it didn't constrict.) Or does it not react at all - won't dilate or constrict?
 
Dearest Tracey, and, of course, you too, sweet Suzie, Lady of The Feathers,

Like Karen, I'm so very glad things went well with your visit with Dr. Fry! And, am beyond thrilled Suzie is finally off N!!! What dose are you starting with the PZI? And, please do remember to post on the PZI Support Group to get their input as you get more readings...

Did Dr. Fry say what kind of "massive" infection (UTI, URI...)? And, did she prescribe any antibiotics beyond the shot she gave yesterday? Did she think this may be why Suzie sometimes goes off her food? Did she offer any suggestions or give her something to perk up her appetite? I'm sorry for so many questions, Tracey, it's just that I've been on pins and needles waiting for your update...

Please know that I'm hoping and praying and thinking only good thoughts that your sweet furry girl -- and her worried mom -- will both be feeling better soon...

Much love and countless hopeful, healing, hungry hugs for you both,
Deb and Nikki -- and Giz, forever dancing in my heart...

PS: Thank you, dearest Venita...
 
Convenia I believe was the name of the antibiotic. I know there are some risks with it but Dr Fry just did her renal numbers and they were good. With the stomach problems Suzie has been having I don't think oral would have worked. Suzie has is also starting to reach her threshold of how much she is going to let me do to her. She is a pretty easy going cat but she has a lot of stuff going and to put up with. We all have our limits. Now that we have started her on the Prozinc I don't want her to get testy about home testing. I am a little nervous about the change but very glad it is happening.



Or does it not react at all - won't dilate or constrict?>> It does not do either. Dr Fry said the retina looks okay but that the blood vessels were very swollen in the eye. I believe that is related to the high blood pressure. She changed her meds for that. I pick up the new meds tomorrow. Dr fry thinks it might be a brain tumor but I don't think so. Time will tell. She said they could do an MRI. it would cost about 1500 and she did say there wouldn't be any thing they could do about a brain tumor. I think and am hoping that this cat that has outlived her nine live nine times over will again surprise everyone. That as her blood pressure gets under control, her infection and her diabetes the eye things will go away.

Her hypothyroidism btw is under control for the moment. So that is a blessing.

I am hoping she will make it to her 10th birthday. It was so nice to have her around as a kitten on 9/11 I lost a lot that day. Actually we all did. it was a very sad time It was so comforting to have her and the other kittens I rescued at that time to come home to. They were always into something and just going off of being bottle feed to solid food. I believe I feed them with the bottle a little longer then they needed to be fed that way. However they didn't mind and neither did I : ) There is something about a cat that you bottle feed. not that I don't love my others dearly. Anywaty, 10 years later I still have two of those kitten, Suzie and Angel. the others are in good homes. It is just me and my cats now but I would love to have a BIG birthday party for Suzie with all kinds of feathers : ) that she could dance in and have a ball. As bad as she felt last night she did take a few seconds to play with one of her feathers I found under a piece of furniture I feel sure she didn't see it in a long time. It was like she was seeing a long lost friend. She then of course ate part it. She usually doesn't do that but she was kind of zoned out on the zanax last night.

I really have to thank everyone here for helping us. If it wouldn't be for Ventia and this board. There would have been no chance of Suzie making it to 10.
 
Did Dr. Fry say what kind of "massive" infection (UTI, URI...)? >> She did I believe it was urinary tract. She has had them before. That is why I kept trying to get my old vet to check it. Venetia may recall more then I do. It was a bunch of nerves to say the least. Suzie was open mouth breathing and that scares me so much.




And, did she prescribe any antibiotics beyond the shot she gave yesterday?>> I have to take her or a urine specimen back in two weeks. If this anti biotic does not work they will send it away to find out what the infection is.

Did she offer any suggestions or give her something to perk up her appetite? >> She thinks it will perk up as the infection is treated and with the change in the Insulin. If it doesn't she suggested that perhaps we give Suzie a very mild amount if the Zanax because Suzie despite all the other problems she had last night ate very well.

What dose are you starting with the PZI?>> I started her on 1 unit last night. Dr Fry wanted me to start her on 2 but Suzie has such a rough time last night I didn't want to take any chances.



PZI Support Group to get their input as you get more readings...>> I will try to remember I forget they are here. Well Mr Blue my little heart patient is look at me like hey pay some attention to me so I guess I better. He is such a character. He is the one that followed me how I guess it was 6 years ago. Dr Jones didn't think he would make it 6 months well he is still going strong : ) loves to pick on my girls but not in a bad way. He is also very protective of his girls. He has his own little heram here. He isn't going anywhere.

I want go check on Suzie also she is still feeling under the weather today. She had a lot happen to her yesterday.

Thanks again, Tracey
 
Here are todays number. I just started her on 1 unit. Dr Fry wanted me to start on 2 but with the way Suzie is today I thought 1 would be better to start. Ventia thought the same thing.

Suzie numbers are


308 at 3:13 AM
255 at 8 am
282 2;48 pm about 30 minuters before I gave her the insulin this afternoon

I have to change this thing to daylight savings time.

I guess I should start a thread on Prozinc form as I will need help to get her to the right level. Dr Fry also wants me to do a mini curver in a few days so you guys will have to tell me what that is. I think I get it just test her a few times that day.
 
Dearest Tracey, and, of course, you too, sweet Suzie,

Thank you for answering our questions -- and for today's numbers! Those numbers are looking far more gentle than the N swings, right?

traceyg said:
I guess I should start a thread on Prozinc form as I will need help to get her to the right level. Dr Fry also wants me to do a mini curver in a few days so you guys will have to tell me what that is. I think I get it just test her a few times that day.
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Glad you'll be posting on the PZI Support Group. Good for you!

A curve is morning PS (pre-shot) reading, then readings every two hours, followed by the evening PS. You can post it as something like:
AM PS: 308, 1.0 units
+2, 255
+4, 205
+6, 165
+8, 190
+10, 230
PM PS: 255, 1.0 units

I'm guessing a mini curve would be maybe morning PS reading, then readings at +3 (3 hours after shot), +6, +9, followed by the evening PS. But, it might be something different to Dr. Fry. Could you either email or call her to find out exactly when she wants you to test Suzie?

I'm also glad you're starting with 1.0 unit dose, Tracey. Antibiotics and infections can create havoc with BGs, so it's best to build her dose up slowly, if need be, rather than start too high and have to reduce. Make sense?

Please know we're holding you both close in our hearts, thoughts, and prayers. You both deserve a much-needed break!

Much love and countless, hopeful, healing, hungry hugs,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz...
 
traceyg said:
I have to change this thing to daylight savings time.
Click to expand...

Go to User Control Panel (upper left under Board Index), click on the Board Preferences tab, go down to My Timezone and change it to Eastern Standard Time, then right under it where it says something like Daylight Savings Time is in effect, click the Yes button.
 
308 at 3:13 AM
255 at 8 am
282 2;48 pm about 30 minuters before I gave her the insulin this afternoon

tested around 7:30 this evenin just to see it was up to 354

It is hard to tell if I got it in here with the small amount I am now giving her. Dr fry wanted to start her at 2 units. Do you think I should or wait a few days and see how the antibiotics are doing? She is still pretty out of it today.
 
These are not bad numbers for a kitty with an infection, on antibiotics and getting used to a new insulin. Barring some really higher numbers, I would keep the one unit for a few cycles.

Have you tried our spreadsheet? It is a good way to keep track of numbers, doses and will really help when you want dose advice. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207 it does take a while to load and has not worked on some computers, so if you want help, just ask.
 
These are not bad numbers for a kitty with an infection, on antibiotics and getting used to a new insulin. Barring some really higher numbers, I would keep the one unit for a few cycles. >>

Thanks that is what I was thinking especially since she is still so out of it but I was not sure. She is still sleeping under the open window and on the enamel table. Nice and cold so she still most likely is running a fever. Poor Venetia was almost froze yesterday coming home trying to keep Suzie cool with the air in the car. She is part Maine coone I believe they do best with colder weather and tempts to start off with.

Well I am beat I was up most of the night last night watching suzie. Tonight I think I will sleep with at least one eye closed 3 am comes early.
 
Her number this morning at about 2:30 Am was 338. She seems to be doing a little better. Still kind of out of it and glassy eyed. I thought it was the zanax from the vet trip the other day but that would have worn off by now. Could it be the new insulin? I wouldn't think so but overall she seems better. I think she has a good fighting chance now. Thanks to you guys.

She seems more tired since we took her to the vet. I am thinking it is the antibiotic. . . ?
I do take notice her coat is starting to look better not so spiky and dried out. Well it is time for her thyroid meds then I am going back to be for a few hours. These 3 am doses on days I don't have to go out and set up at the markets are killers. . . but she is worth it. Can't wait to see her playing and dunking her feathers again . . God willing. . At 2 we give the Pepcid AC about 2:30-3 we test at 3 the insulin and at 4 the thyroid meds. At least we are getting a system down now.

As we are getting adjusted to this new insulin. What are the numbers I have to worry about. Like how low is low that you wouldn't give the insulin? I have read the chart here some where what the levels are suppose to be but I am still not sure how low the number would be were you wouldn't give insulin. I read here some where that you want to keep a cat bewteen 100-300?
 
Hi Tracey,

I am sorry to hear that Suzy Q is not perking right up as I hoped she would.

For new users on a ProZinc, we normally recommend a shoot/no shoot number at pre-shot of ~180. If you were to get a lower number at pre-shot, you should test every 30 minutes to make sure her numbers are going up and then shoot when she gets to your established shoot/no shoot number.

Also, you mentioned that you had to take urine back in 2 weeks. I believe Dr. Fry said to bring Suzy back, because if she still has bacteria in her urine, Dr. Fry wants to do a culture and sensitivity (C&S) on the urine to determine the best antibiotic. To do a C&S, Dr. Fry needs fresh, sterile urine captured through a cystocentesis (the draw with the needle), as she did on Thursday.

My best to you and your herd.

Venita
 
pre-shot of ~180.>>

Is that negatice 180

and then shoot when she gets to your established shoot/no shoot number.>>

Okay I am lost don't have a clue what you are talking about.

I believe Dr. Fry said to bring Suzy back, because if she still has bacteria in her urine, Dr. Fry wants to do a culture and sensitivity (C&S) on the urine to determine the best antibiotic. >>

She said later in an e-mail that it could be done with gravel as long as I would get it up their right away since travel is so hard on Suzie. I still think I would prefer to take Suzie up if she is feeling better then she is now. Right now I think another trip would be to taxing but we have plenty of time yet. talking about Suzie here she comes now. What do you think the glassy eyes are about?

Suzie and I are so grateful for your help Ventia. I have been meaning to PM you but I did not get around to it yet. I am not sure why she isn't perking up. I would image it has to do more with the infection then the diabetes at this point. As you have seen from her records she has had a host of prolbems but she always amazes me when she gets through hopefully this will be the same. I told last night she has her own little cheering team here. I think she understood.

I thought it was so cute when Suzie was sitting aside of you at the vet. She is walking around a little more then yesterday. Mon it is suppose to be 80 here so I better get the air in the window she doesn't do well in heat. . .
 
Tracey,

To explain what Venita was talking about:

If you test Susie and say the meter reads 165 don't shoot but retest in 30 min.
If that test is still below 180 don't shoot but continue to test in 30 min intervals until you get a reading higher than 180

When you are working with a new insulin, you don't want to give insulin until they are higher than your Don't Shoot Number.

Once you have lots of data on how Susie's body is using the insulin then you can start adjusting the dose and shooting those lower numbers.
And the folks in the PZI support group can help you there. But until you have a few weeks of numbers its hard to tell what a safe dose is at those lower numbers.

We would rather see her run slightly high for a day than a moment too low.

Does that help?

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang
 
traceyg said:
pre-shot of ~180.>>

Is that negatice 180

and then shoot when she gets to your established shoot/no shoot number.>>

Okay I am lost don't have a clue what you are talking about.
Click to expand...

No, that wasn't negative. I used the squiggly line that means "about."

Here are the FDMB's Frequently Asked Questions. This is Item 4.4

Q4.4. My cat's pre-shot level was way below the usual value. Should I give the injection?

A4.4. There's no hard and fast rule, but if you don't have data on how your cat responds to insulin, here are some general guidelines. Below 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), don't give insulin. Between 150 and 200 (8.3-11.1 mmol/L), you have three options: a.) give nothing; b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose); c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value. Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise. In all cases, if you are reducing or eliminating insulin, it's wise to check for ketones in the urine. Above the normal pre-shot value, give the usual dose, but if the pre-shot value is consistently elevated, it's a good idea to schedule a full glucose curve to see whether a change in dose or insulin is appropriate. In most cases, the target "peak" value should not be below 100 mg/dl (5.6 mmol/L), and for some cats it might be higher.

Keep in mind that these are general guidelines, and they should be personalized to your own cat's reactions to insulin. If your experience is that your cat does not became hypoglycemic with a dose which is close to her usual, then your experience should be your guide.

Lantus and Levemir users: Because Lantus and Levemir are gentler insulins, you may find that these guidelines are stricter than you need. If you have some data on how your cat responds to insulin, please read Jojo and Jill (Team J)'s guidelines at FDMB (http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... 22,1017956).
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That FAQ says that the point at which you should not give insulin (the shoot/no shoot line) is 150. Many of us use 180 for the shoot/no shoot line for PZI insulins (which ProZinc is). Although the FAQ says to retest in a couple of hours, some of us test earlier than that, thus my suggestion for 30 minutes. As you get more experienced with this insulin, you will come to understand how Suzie's body uses it, and how you should react to a lower-than-normal preshot number.

I believe Dr. Fry said to bring Suzy back, because if she still has bacteria in her urine, Dr. Fry wants to do a culture and sensitivity (C&S) on the urine to determine the best antibiotic. >>

She said later in an e-mail that it could be done with gravel as long as I would get it up their right away since travel is so hard on Suzie. I still think I would prefer to take Suzie up if she is feeling better then she is now. Right now I think another trip would be to taxing but we have plenty of time yet. talking about Suzie here she comes now. What do you think the glassy eyes are about?
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OK. Taking in just the urine is fine, but Dr. Fry won't be able to run a reliable C&S on that urine (it's not sterile) if one is needed. Hi there Suzie. To me, glassy eyes means Suzie isn't feeling well. It can be a symptom of hypoglycemia, but her blood glucose number shows us that she is not hypo.

Suzie and I are so grateful for your help Ventia. I have been meaning to PM you but I did not get around to it yet. I am not sure why she isn't perking up. I would image it has to do more with the infection then the diabetes at this point. As you have seen from her records she has had a host of prolbems but she always amazes me when she gets through hopefully this will be the same. I told last night she has her own little cheering team here. I think she understood.
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You are welcome, Tracey. Helping others is what we do around here. I suspect her not feeling well is a combination of things, but you and Dr. Fry are treating all known problems. It will just take some time.

I thought it was so cute when Suzie was sitting aside of you at the vet. She is walking around a little more then yesterday. Mon it is suppose to be 80 here so I better get the air in the window she doesn't do well in heat. . .
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She was saying thank you to me, and I told her she was welcome. She does want to feel better. And, yes, it does sound like time for the window air conditioning units. (Said as I sit here with the space heater on.)
 
No, that wasn't negative. I used the squiggly line that means "about."

I thought so. I just tested her it has been about 6 hours she is at 318. I think Dr Fry was right and she needs 2 units but I want to wait a bit yet to do that because if the infection. Do you agree?

It will just take some time.>> Yeap and I am not that patience when it comes to my babies. I think Suzie most of all because she has had so many challanges all her life. The other do to but not like she does.


She was saying thank you to me, and I told her she was welcome. She does want to feel better. >>

Yes I think so. Most of my friends here are still trying to talk me into putting her down. I don't think that is what she wants.
 
If you test Susie and say the meter reads 165 don't shoot but retest in 30 min.
If that test is still below 180 don't shoot but continue to test in 30 min intervals until you get a reading higher than 180>>

Yes it does. Now if she is running lets say 180 two hours after I was suppose to give the insulin would I then just wait to give the insulin until the next dose.
 
It would depend if you are going to be home with her or not, you can either (if home) wait and continue to test until you see her rising above that 180 mark, if your not going to be home, then skip that dose and wait until the time for her next shot, I think. I'm not terribly sure since Maxwell was on Lantus and went OTJ very quickly. So quickly in fact that I only gave him 2 shots.

But I'm pretty sure from everything that I have read on these boards over the months that is the correct protocol. Someone correct me if I have it wrong. I do know that PZI is more forgiving about shot times than Lantus was. Lantus likes a strict 12/12 schedule.

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang
 
Oh yeah if you are ever in doubt, just post over in PZI support group and ask them. Since they all use your insulin they can probably give you an answer pretty quickly on to either skip or lower the dose and shoot.

Of courrse Maxwell didn't have as much going on with him besides diabetes as your sweet Susie.

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang
 
Her number are stating in the 300s now not much differance from the Humlin. I had a few high 200s. Dr Fry wanted to start her on 2 units. To be safe I started her on one. I won't be home much tomorrow as I have a long work day but should I start going to 2 units now or wait. I haven't posted on the insulin boards because they say few nembies to stay here and I still feel like a newbie with diabetes and everything else Suzie has going on. I hope she has a chance of getting better. Would be a shame to put her through all this for nothing. She looks so depressed today again. Thanks for listening. Tracey
 
I would stick with one unit for a few more cycles, Tracey. It takes a while for her body to get used to the insulin. And when you increase, I would only go up to 1.5, not 2.

You can post in both places. PZI can help with dosing and you can get help with her other issues here.
 
I would stick with one unit for a few more cycles, Tracey. It takes a while for her body to get used to the insulin. And when you increase, I would only go up to 1.5, not 2. >>
okay I will. I am have been moving a lot of furniture today so I guess I am kind of tired and impatience.


I have also been thinking about something. About 3 weeks ago I had my vet Dr Jones check Suzie for crystals. I had to be pushy about it. Off and on I was also trying to get Dr Jones to check Suzie for an infection. I knew something else was going on. When Venetia and I took Suzie up to Dr Fry I saw the way Dr fry pulled the urine. I didn't think about it but until today but I would image that is the way they do it to check for crystals and urinary tract infections. If that is the case and I am not sure of that. Why in the world wouldn't my old vet do both 3 weeks ago when I was asking them to check her for infection. I have Suzie's record they did check for Crystals. She had none but the next day I took her in because she was impacted the other way. Does it make sense to any one else that 3 weeks ago they didn't check for bladder infection when I asked them to check for Crystals and was also concerned about infection or something else because I knew it just wasn't the diabetes, blood pressure and thyroid. I am making sense here. . . or am I missing something.

Could I have been this dumb to think my old vet was good. She was ten years ago when I went to her or am I judging her unfairly. . . I want to give her the benefit of the doubt. I like Dr Jones as a person I even named one of my cats after her JJ. Dr J is my old vet for Suzie. I have 4 other cats I am starting to think I need to change vets for all of them. . . ?
 
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