survived our first brush with hypo

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CandyH & Catcat

CandyH & Catcat

Member Since 2019
don't know why I checked at +3 this morning, had initially planned not to check til +4, good thing I did

+3 = 52 .. EEEK :eek:

okay, immediately put more food out (had fed a snack at +1.5), got ready to recheck right away since it *could* have been an error, meter, strip, or not enough blood

nope == 15 minutes later = 38 :arghh:

out came a Temptations treat, plus a helping of MeowMix (slightly higher carb) while I ran downstairs for the Karo syrup

:mad::mad::mad: -- could not get the cap off the Karo (of course I was fumble fingered) -- luckily I had gotten a squeeze bottle of huckleberry honey last week, ran upstairs and tried to smear a fingerful of honey on his mouth -- not very successfully

he was still licking the bowl so I threw some of his sardine treats in it, dripped the honey on top, then added a little water .. and he lapped away at that -- threw another Temptations in the bowl for good measure

then put out the rest of the can of 4Health, plus half of the can of MeowMix -- he was still eating

+3.75 = 100 -- big sigh all around

it's now coming up +5 == will see if there's anything left of his ear to get blood from ... by now he will have hit time for usual nadir, plus all that food should be kicking in by now :cat::p

we'll see (crossing fingers, toes, eyes, whole self
 
Wow! Now that was a surprise! Definitely lower your dose to 0.75u so you don't have that scare again. Chances are good he may be a bit higher tonight but that's normal. Some cats are a little more sensitive to insulin after a low like that so monitor him closely through the next cycle or 2 to make sure he's not dropping too low.
 
okay, will do, thanks for the heads-up -- that red PS last night shocked me too

+5 = 79 .. and he's eating again --

good news today however, he has the long-awaited dental appt at the vet on Monday morning -- at which time I'll confirm with her that we'll switch to Lantus as soon as he recovers from whatever dental procedures he needs
 
Looks like the honey is disspating. Keep an eye on him as you don't want him dropping again and that's a lower BG than we recommend with Vetsulin. Give him a little snack of LC to keep him propped up.
 
since I don't have half unit markings on my U-40 syringes, what do you think about using U-100 syringe, drawing to the 2 mark on that which = .8 u of U-40 insulin? probably more accurate than guesstimating .75 by noting where the plunger is, on a U-40 (have heard that the plunger is close to .25 u thickness)
 
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oh, Catcat has pretty much been eating all this time, I've been dishing up about 1/3 of a 5.5 oz can of his usual LC food, every 15-20 minutes, luckily he is ALWAYS hungry

not sure what happened, could be all that no-carb scrambled egg white he ate yesterday, or could be that his pancreas finally let a good dose out .. since he tends to run in the 300s after insulin wears off, I suspect the pancreas is at least occasionally releasing some insulin itself

could be that unusually high PMPS BG triggered something off .. if that's true, it's a good sign
 
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A tip for the Karo, if it’s been opened before the lid can get stuck on from the dried syrup. I’ve had that happen to me before, went to panickedly open it and the dang lid was cemented on from the last time I’d used it. And of course you only realize it when you need it! So I’ve started wiping it down with a wet paper towel after each time. I also am never successful at getting it into her mouth but she’ll eat it right up if I mix it in her food
 
CandyH and Catcat said:
don't know why I checked at +3 this morning, had initially planned not to check til +4, good thing I did

+3 = 52 .. EEEK :eek:

okay, immediately put more food out (had fed a snack at +1.5), got ready to recheck right away since it *could* have been an error, meter, strip, or not enough blood

nope == 15 minutes later = 38 :arghh:

out came a Temptations treat, plus a helping of MeowMix (slightly higher carb) while I ran downstairs for the Karo syrup

:mad::mad::mad: -- could not get the cap off the Karo (of course I was fumble fingered) -- luckily I had gotten a squeeze bottle of huckleberry honey last week, ran upstairs and tried to smear a fingerful of honey on his mouth -- not very successfully

he was still licking the bowl so I threw some of his sardine treats in it, dripped the honey on top, then added a little water .. and he lapped away at that -- threw another Temptations in the bowl for good measure

then put out the rest of the can of 4Health, plus half of the can of MeowMix -- he was still eating

+3.75 = 100 -- big sigh all around

it's now coming up +5 == will see if there's anything left of his ear to get blood from ... by now he will have hit time for usual nadir, plus all that food should be kicking in by now :cat::p

we'll see (crossing fingers, toes, eyes, whole self
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Hey Candy, That must have been very scary, so sorry this happened, how is Catcat now? I hope everything is ok keep us posted. You did a good job
 
If the lid gets stuck on the Karo bottle, just hold it under running hot water for a minute or two and it will loosen the hardened syrup. Good catch today you may want to consider having some FF gravy in his hypo kit for episodes like this. The HC food kicks in pretty fast.
 
I do have some HC gravy type -- Friskies turkey & cheese in gravy, also some TwinPet -- am assuming that is medium-carb since it includes brewers rice -- but was holding those in reserve in case honey + more LC food than usual, didn't do the trick

I probably should get some smaller cans of the stuff -- to mix in if ever needed again

+6 = 176 .. appears he is well out of the hypo woods
 
Hi, good catch :)

Just as an FYI, you can add more blood test values to the SS blocks ; for example in your +3 block I'd put 52/ 38 @ +3.25 / 100 @ +3.75

Then you manually color in the block lime green, and can see at a glance when his numbers were too low. You can change the text back to white, too

In the remarks/comments you can note what you gave when, food wise (%carb, karo etc) and you'll learn what works, how long it takes to kick in, and how much /often you need to give. Helps you not to panic too, eventually:)

Hth, with love, Nikki
 
I had something very similar today with Poppy. She had been moved up from 1 unit to 1.5 units after 6 days of results. There was one blood check of 5.6 (101), but nothing below 240 for 5 days and she was still getting some high numbers (including 36.2/652 last night), so the vet said we could move up to 1.5 units. This morning she had come down from the previous night's high to a more steady 17.2/310 and she was given 1.5 units.

Looking back now, I should have checked her 3 hours after the increased dose. I actually checked mid-cycle and by that point she was 3.3/59 (I checked twice to be sure and it was that low). She was stumbling around, dragging her back feet and looking very confused. I rubbed some honey on her gums and watched her for an hour to make sure she was ok. Checked after an hour and she was back up 7.2/130. Four hours later she was 11.2/202. I spoke with the vet because she was due her evening shot (which was to be amended down to 1.25 units). Because she has not eaten at all, he advised to not give her insulin tonight. I was really unsure whether to go back to 1 unit, 1.25 units or miss it completely. It's all a bit confusing and scary.

She's very weak at the moment. Obviously, she's an elderly cat at 18yo, but has anyone else had experience of hypo with an older cat? Is it usual that they will be the worse for wear after it and take some time to recover?

The plan is to check her bloods in the morning, give her an appetite stimulant and resume with the insulin. But I agree with CandyH, it's a very scary experience and one I do not want to repeat!
 
I feel for you, I got lucky, or else Catcat was in better condition -- never saw the least symptom of hypo, he was alert, moving well, washing, bounding up and down stairs, even at that low point he was searching for food, scratching at the cabinets, jumping up and down on the bed, licking the very last goodies out of the cans and dishes, pawing at the suspended sack holding his treat bonito flakes, walking half a block back to the building where I feed the barn cats -- I know how *I* feel when my BG gets too low -- if he had an inkling, he hid it well
 
nslade001 said:
Hi, good catch :)

Just as an FYI, you can add more blood test values to the SS blocks ; for example in your +3 block I'd put 52/ 38 @ +3.25 / 100 @ +3.75

Then you manually color in the block lime green, and can see at a glance when his numbers were too low. You can change the text back to white, too

In the remarks/comments you can note what you gave when, food wise (%carb, karo etc) and you'll learn what works, how long it takes to kick in, and how much /often you need to give. Helps you not to panic too, eventually:)

Hth, with love, Nikki
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I have all that info written down in my little journal book -- can always look it up if someone needs the addl info to advise me; I'm not likely to forget either, but always better to write it down anyway

found the reason the Karo didn't open easily -- apparently it had been knocked down or banged up some time after I'd checked it last (never use it, stopped baking sweet stuff when DH was diagnosed diabetic, I was pronounced prediabetic, and adult son said he was "off sugar") -- so cap was dented, quite a procedure to round it out again once all the panic was over -- I have apricot syrup and real maple syrup too, brown sugar and powdered sugar available, and local organic honey from a neighbor in an unopened Mason jar -- the huckleberry honey was just easier -- drip drip, squirt squirt ... didn't have to dig it out nor fight with cap to open
 
CandyH and Catcat said:
I have all that info written down in my little journal book -- can always look it up if someone needs the addl info to advise me; I'm not likely to forget either, but always better to write it down anyway

found the reason the Karo didn't open easily -- apparently it had been knocked down or banged up some time after I'd checked it last (never use it, stopped baking sweet stuff when DH was diagnosed diabetic, I was pronounced prediabetic, and adult son said he was "off sugar") -- so cap was dented, quite a procedure to round it out again once all the panic was over -- I have apricot syrup and real maple syrup too, brown sugar and powdered sugar available, and local organic honey from a neighbor in an unopened Mason jar -- the huckleberry honey was just easier -- drip drip, squirt squirt ... didn't have to dig it out nor fight with cap to open
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Lol I started out with the journal book too.. still use it for BG numbers and keeping track of pees and poops, but all BG monitoring info has migrated to the SS over time. No way I could remember all the trials, brands of food and types, %carb, amount of food, etc and the SS is much faster for me to reference in emergency situation; and I've definitely needed it! Helps to have people be able to see it without me needing to add info when I'm flustered or worried too.
With love, nikki
 
maybe it's easier if you're as cheap as I am -- only four brands I feel I can afford, two of them come in 3 flavors, 2 come in two flavors, one brand I've been feeding only at night since it seems to cause his BG to run slightly higher; I've run out of Fancy Feast which would be the fifth brand, haven't had any for several weeks (may order from Chewy if it goes on sale) --

since Catcat is always hungry, doesn't seem to matter much which brand I open for him, nor which flavor -- and three of the brands have the same carb % within 1% of each other .. far as I can tell, they're interchangeable for THIS cat

says Catcat, rolling onto his back, stretching his stomach out, wanting me to get his fishing pole out so he can bat the mousie
 
Goodness, what a drop from 300! Man your cat mom instincts really kicked in to want to get that +3, thats crazy. So glad that everything went well for you and Catcat!! I am no stranger to the lows as my cat decided she wanted to have 3 PJ parties in the span of 6 days going from 1u of Prozinc to .1u... Luckily shes a walking stomach just like your Catcat :cat: really helps at times like this!
 
cleanprophet said:
I had something very similar today with Poppy. She had been moved up from 1 unit to 1.5 units after 6 days of results. There was one blood check of 5.6 (101), but nothing below 240 for 5 days and she was still getting some high numbers (including 36.2/652 last night), so the vet said we could move up to 1.5 units. This morning she had come down from the previous night's high to a more steady 17.2/310 and she was given 1.5 units.

Looking back now, I should have checked her 3 hours after the increased dose. I actually checked mid-cycle and by that point she was 3.3/59 (I checked twice to be sure and it was that low). She was stumbling around, dragging her back feet and looking very confused. I rubbed some honey on her gums and watched her for an hour to make sure she was ok. Checked after an hour and she was back up 7.2/130. Four hours later she was 11.2/202. I spoke with the vet because she was due her evening shot (which was to be amended down to 1.25 units). Because she has not eaten at all, he advised to not give her insulin tonight. I was really unsure whether to go back to 1 unit, 1.25 units or miss it completely. It's all a bit confusing and scary.

She's very weak at the moment. Obviously, she's an elderly cat at 18yo, but has anyone else had experience of hypo with an older cat? Is it usual that they will be the worse for wear after it and take some time to recover?

The plan is to check her bloods in the morning, give her an appetite stimulant and resume with the insulin. But I agree with CandyH, it's a very scary experience and one I do not want to repeat!
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I hope Poppy is ok, please let us know how she is in the morning
 
Mamakin said:
I hope Poppy is ok, please let us know how she is in the morning
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She's a bit better this morning. Still quite weak (she's an elderly cat and has dropped from 3.8kg to 3.45kg in the last 3 months, after dropping from 4.2kg to 3.8kg in the 3 months prior to that). Struggling to stand up and move. But she has started drinking again.

I suspect the hypo was a combination of increasing the dose and her not eating enough food. Because of her other situations (mostly age related difficulty chewing etc), she doesn't have a great appetite and that makes it difficult to give a regular dose. But I'm working on that. She's on mirtazapine (she had a 2mg dose 90mins ago) and has eaten a little food. I need to get her on a food that she finds much easier to eat and I have one in mind, amongst some other ideas. Hopefully, with the use of the mirtazapine and more suitable food I can get her appetite back, put some weight back on her and make the insulin dosage much less precarious.
 
cleanprophet said:
She's a bit better this morning. Still quite weak (she's an elderly cat and has dropped from 3.8kg to 3.45kg in the last 3 months, after dropping from 4.2kg to 3.8kg in the 3 months prior to that). Struggling to stand up and move. But she has started drinking again.

I suspect the hypo was a combination of increasing the dose and her not eating enough food. Because of her other situations (mostly age related difficulty chewing etc), she doesn't have a great appetite and that makes it difficult to give a regular dose. But I'm working on that. She's on mirtazapine (she had a 2mg dose 90mins ago) and has eaten a little food. I need to get her on a food that she finds much easier to eat and I have one in mind, amongst some other ideas. Hopefully, with the use of the mirtazapine and more suitable food I can get her appetite back, put some weight back on her and make the insulin dosage much less precarious.
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Do you have a current post going about Poppy’s hypo? I hope she is recovered well tomorrow. If she has trouble picking up food or difficulty chewing, there are some “soups” you can get, or you can take a fork and mix water in with the pate and make it a mush (or a soup)..... I wonder if this would help her eat? Cats are also motivated by smell to eat, perhaps at her age she cannot smell as well, so particularly pungent foods might be helpful for her appetite too. :)
 
Catcat don’t scare mommy like that!!!!
I can’t be mad at you because you’re one of those ginger boys I love so much, but still, take it easy on your mama. :cat:
 
CandyH and Catcat said:
maybe it's easier if you're as cheap as I am -- only four brands I feel I can afford, two of them come in 3 flavors, 2 come in two flavors, one brand I've been feeding only at night since it seems to cause his BG to run slightly higher; I've run out of Fancy Feast which would be the fifth brand, haven't had any for several weeks (may order from Chewy if it goes on sale) --

since Catcat is always hungry, doesn't seem to matter much which brand I open for him, nor which flavor -- and three of the brands have the same carb % within 1% of each other .. far as I can tell, they're interchangeable for THIS cat

says Catcat, rolling onto his back, stretching his stomach out, wanting me to get his fishing pole out so he can bat the mousie
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Oh, you're so lucky lol. Willow is pretty much always inappetent, frequently on antinausea drugs, need to watch phosphorus levels in food as we've got hers under control, can only eat pates although now we're puréeing all types into a slurry, plus she may have issues with chicken so we're trying to avoid it, which seems almost impossible lol. Can only dream of a cat that's easy to feed!
 
cleanprophet said:
She's a bit better this morning. Still quite weak (she's an elderly cat and has dropped from 3.8kg to 3.45kg in the last 3 months, after dropping from 4.2kg to 3.8kg in the 3 months prior to that). Struggling to stand up and move. But she has started drinking again.

I suspect the hypo was a combination of increasing the dose and her not eating enough food. Because of her other situations (mostly age related difficulty chewing etc), she doesn't have a great appetite and that makes it difficult to give a regular dose. But I'm working on that. She's on mirtazapine (she had a 2mg dose 90mins ago) and has eaten a little food. I need to get her on a food that she finds much easier to eat and I have one in mind, amongst some other ideas. Hopefully, with the use of the mirtazapine and more suitable food I can get her appetite back, put some weight back on her and make the insulin dosage much less precarious.
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Glad to hear she's a bit better this morning, that poor baby, please let us know how she is tonight
 
AliceMeowliss&Cassandra said:
Do you have a current post going about Poppy’s hypo? I hope she is recovered well tomorrow. If she has trouble picking up food or difficulty chewing, there are some “soups” you can get, or you can take a fork and mix water in with the pate and make it a mush (or a soup)..... I wonder if this would help her eat? Cats are also motivated by smell to eat, perhaps at her age she cannot smell as well, so particularly pungent foods might be helpful for her appetite too. :)
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I think her sense of smell is ok, but she does prefer strong smelling foods like tuna or sardines.

Mamakin said:
Glad to hear she's a bit better this morning, that poor baby, please let us know how she is tonight
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Her bloods were very high this morning and she is still quite unwell. Mainly she is weak, although she is still managing to walk around and jump a little (but she is wobbling around and stumbling a bit too).

I'm just hugely concerned that she isn't eating enough. It's a vicious circle because she is a bit too weak and poorly to eat and she's a bit too weak and poorly because she isn't eating.

I gave her a mirtz this morning, but nslade001 (nikki) made a good point about maybe trying antinausea meds because she could be a bit nauseous due to the stimulant or just generally a bit nauseous. Maybe a higher dose of 2mg mirtz would be an option.

Sorry, I've hijacked this thread haven't I. My post about Poppy is here:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/18-year-old-poppy-renal-diabetes.216003/
 
nslade001 said:
Oh, you're so lucky lol. Willow is pretty much always inappetent, frequently on antinausea drugs, need to watch phosphorus levels in food as we've got hers under control, can only eat pates although now we're puréeing all types into a slurry, plus she may have issues with chicken so we're trying to avoid it, which seems almost impossible lol. Can only dream of a cat that's easy to feed!
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How do you avoid chicken? What have you found that is chicken-free? Eventually I plan to do some dietary trials of different foods to see if I can isolate what might bother Alice a bit.... she’s surviving mostly on chicken because the fish is worse, etc., but I don’t think it’s pwrfect for her. Will not feed rabbit though as we have house bunny/ies too. It feels wrong.

Also apologies for the thread hijack too, Candy. Lol.
 
AliceMeowliss&Cassandra said:
How do you avoid chicken? What have you found that is chicken-free? ...
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Hi @AliceMeowliss&Cassandra ,

With great difficulty and not too much, lol.

I find the limited ingredient diets are best as far as easy to find chicken free. .It's a fairly new trial we're doing, so not a whole lot so far. We're also looking for low carb and lower phosphorus, and we like higher calorie and grain free, prefer less veggies and no gums lol which makes it a bit harder...So we try our best but don't always get everything we want. Most have been fishy (weruva and bff) but the main mixes that go with the fish so far are: weruva truluxe glam n punk and whole earth farms l.i. duck pate.
Just this week we tried wellness core turkey & duck grain free classic pate, and nature's variety instinct grain free lamb formula (both also contain pork liver). Going to pick up Merrick l.i. turkey to try later tonight (thanks for the reminder that it's in, lol).
Alice is so cute :)
Hth, with love, nikki
 
nslade001 said:

Hi @AliceMeowliss&Cassandra ,

With great difficulty and not too much, lol.

I find the limited ingredient diets are best as far as easy to find chicken free. .It's a fairly new trial we're doing, so not a whole lot so far. We're also looking for low carb and lower phosphorus, and we like higher calorie and grain free, prefer less veggies and no gums lol which makes it a bit harder...So we try our best but don't always get everything we want. Most have been fishy (weruva and bff) but the main mixes that go with the fish so far are: weruva truluxe glam n punk and whole earth farms l.i. duck pate.
Just this week we tried wellness core turkey & duck grain free classic pate, and nature's variety instinct grain free lamb formula (both also contain pork liver). Going to pick up Merrick l.i. turkey to try later tonight (thanks for the reminder that it's in, lol).
Alice is so cute :)
Hth, with love, nikki
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Tricky! And I would have to be avoiding fish, myself!! :p how difficult.
 
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