Summer earned her first Reduction!!

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Summers Mom

Summers Mom

Member Since 2017
Well she did it!! Summer had her first hypo last night and earned her first reduction!! We both were up ALL night! I have had only about 2 hrs sleep! lol Drinking coffee and running on adrenaline! lol It was a little scary with her dropping to 39!!! But thank God for this group and me reading the great info on here and i also want to Thank Chris & China for helping me through it!!! Thank you Chris!! So.. Summer is on high dose as alot of you know and she was on 13 units 2 x a day. So since she earned this reduction i lowered her to a FAt 12. More like 12.5 i guess you could say. I have been increasing by whole units and i was going to decrease her by a whole unit but i wasn't really sure so i did the Fat 12 instead. I am hoping to see more greens from Summer!! WOO HOO Summer!!! :D:D:D:D :p:coffee::coffee:
 
Not sure if I've ever visited Summer's condo's but I do frequently lurk/read them. First, congrats on the reduction and handling low numbers :) My Doodles was IAA and a high-doser but not Acro. IMHO with high dose kitties it's best to take the full reduction especially with numbers in the 30's ( in this case the 1u) and it keeps you on the line for easier/consistent dosing. With the large depot and not knowing if Summer is Acro or IAA, caution in my experience is a good thing. Worse case you go back up but it's easier then fighting a possible over full depot. Since it's the first reduction you'll learn if the full unit was a good choice or if you should adjust to something smaller or larger. Unfortunately they usually change their mind regardless of what our decisions are. Just my 2 cents.
 
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Doodles & Karen said:
Not sure if I've ever visited Summer's condo's but I do frequently lurk/read them. First, congrats on the reduction and handling low numbers :) My Doodles was IAA and a high-doser but not Acro. IMHO with high dose kitties it's best to take the full reduction especially with numbers in the 30's ( in this case the 1u) and it keeps you on the line for easier/consistent dosing. With the large depot and not knowing if Summer is Acro or IAA, caution in my experience is a good thing. Worse case you go back up but it's easier then fighting a possible over full depot. Since it's the first reduction you'll learn if the full unit was a good choice or if you should adjust to something smaller larger. Unfortunately they usually change their mind regardless of what our decisions are. Just my 2 cents.
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Thank you Karen.
 
Just curious. How is a low number considered a “hypo”? Did Summer have symptoms of hypo? Or just low number? I believe there is a difference.
 
Juliet said:
How is a low number considered a “hypo
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http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

My understanding is some cats don't show symptoms. Here is the link to the hypo information.

Jones never showed signs of hypo like seizures, walking drunk, disoriented etc when he dropped into the 1.9 - 2.2 range when I went into the ER last fall. He just seemed very cold when I finally got home. His appy wasn't really huge either. It was scary and I was due back to the ER for further testing. Just feed some HC constantly and kept him warm under a blanket. Until he came back up to 3. That was my first NS since starting with the board.


Numbers that low with insulin on board that can further bring them down is dangerous. Those lime greens are there to help keep the kitty safe so they don't go into seizures or worse.

We don't want an ER Vet required hypo situation we are running to the ER Vet to help save them.
 
Summers Mom said:
Well she did it!! Summer had her first hypo last night and earned her first reduction!! We both were up ALL night! I have had only about 2 hrs sleep!
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Congrats on keeping Summer safe & on your reduction :)

Juliet said:
Just curious. How is a low number considered a “hypo”?
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Any numbers in lime green are considered Hypo & in the low dark greens (less than 3.3/60) . When Merry hits lime green that's when I pull out the HC food & Corn Syrup. If I see Merry is heading towards low dark green & I know I have to go out for a few hours, I will feed HC food to boost him up just to keep him safe while I'm out but usually if I think he`s heading to low dark greens I`ll just feed him his regular food to see if that will boost him up a bit. The only signs Merry has ever shown of being Hypo is meowing for food because when their blood sugar is low they're instincts kick in that tells them to eat. He`s never shown any of the other more serious symptoms & the lowest I`ve caught Merry at is 1.6(29).
 
Tracey&Jones said:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

My understanding is some cats don't show symptoms. Here is the link to the hypo information.

Jones never showed signs of hypo like seizures, walking drunk, disoriented etc when he dropped into the 1.9 - 2.2 range when I went into the ER last fall. He just seemed very cold when I finally got home. His appy wasn't really huge either. It was scary and I was due back to the ER for further testing. Just feed some HC constantly and kept him warm under a blanket. Until he came back up to 3. That was my first NS since starting with the board.


Numbers that low with insulin on board that can further bring them down is dangerous. Those lime greens are there to help keep the kitty safe so they don't go into seizures or worse.

We don't want an ER Vet required hypo situation we are running to the ER Vet to help save them.
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Thank you Tracey. Summer acted normal just like your Jones. She just was meowing for food which isn't out of the ordinary. Yes those lime greens are scary but thank God for this forum and the great info and people here! :cat:
 
Summers Mom said:
Well she did it!! Summer had her first hypo last night and earned her first reduction!! We both were up ALL night! I have had only about 2 hrs sleep! lol Drinking coffee and running on adrenaline! lol It was a little scary with her dropping to 39!!! But thank God for this group and me reading the great info on here and i also want to Thank Chris & China for helping me through it!!! Thank you Chris!! So.. Summer is on high dose as alot of you know and she was on 13 units 2 x a day. So since she earned this reduction i lowered her to a FAt 12. More like 12.5 i guess you could say. I have been increasing by whole units and i was going to decrease her by a whole unit but i wasn't really sure so i did the Fat 12 instead. I am hoping to see more greens from Summer!! WOO HOO Summer!!! :D:D:D:D :p:coffee::coffee:
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Congratulations. You both deserve this after all the work.
:coffee:

Chris is a bit of a treasure , not to spare her blushes
 
LuanneP said:
Congrats on keeping Summer safe & on your reduction :)



Any numbers in lime green are considered Hypo & in the low dark greens (less than 3.3/60) . When Merry hits lime green that's when I pull out the HC food & Corn Syrup. If I see Merry is heading towards low dark green & I know I have to go out for a few hours, I will feed HC food to boost him up just to keep him safe while I'm out but usually if I think he`s heading to low dark greens I`ll just feed him his regular food to see if that will boost him up a bit. The only signs Merry has ever shown of being Hypo is meowing for food because when their blood sugar is low they're instincts kick in that tells them to eat. He`s never shown any of the other more serious symptoms & the lowest I`ve caught Merry at is 1.6(29).
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Yes! Lime greens are hypo and scary! Summer never showed any signs except meowing to let me know she was hungry which she does anyways. She just laid on kitchen floor the whole time i was trying to get her numbers up. She seemed normal. Wow! 29!! Summer was at 39 and that was scary enough but thank God with the hc gravy and honey she came up after being up all night!! I finally got to bed at 5:45 am just to get back up at 6am!! We have to do what we have to do for our kitties! :D
 
Juliet said:
Just curious. How is a low number considered a “hypo”? Did Summer have symptoms of hypo? Or just low number? I believe there is a difference.
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Anytime one of our kitties go below 50, not to mention 39 because that is how low summer went, it most certainly is hypo. There is a saying, Every cat is different (ECID). No summer didn't have symptoms other than meowing for food which she does anyways. The chart on our SS is most valuable in letting us know when they get into the greens especially the lime greens that it is surely time to take action. :cat:
 
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PussCatPrince said:
Not to derail at all but Tyler showed no symptoms at all when sliding from green to lime green as he has done. He also still ate his food.

Back on track -
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Agreed. Given huge meter variance lime green may not necessarily be hypo. Silver was 50 a couple days ago. But testing same drop of blood on a different meter showed him at 94 so I figure he was somewhere in the middle. Freestyle notoriously reads on the low side.
 
First of all, here is the link to the day before's post where Summer had those low numbers: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/help-summer-is-39.191487/ We call things a hypo, when there are hypo symptoms, otherwise it's just a low numbers event, which is anything below 50 on the human meter (not 60). Other than hunger or hanging around the kitchen, Neko never showed symptoms either. Good job handling those numbers though. Since there isn't a post today, I'll continue on this one, though we typically suggest starting a new post each day.

I am glad you did the 1 unit reduction as Karen suggested. Now you have to hold the dose long enough for the bounce to be over. Once the bounce is resolved, you can see if this dose is getting her into green numbers and if she is holding the reduction. It can take up to six cycles for a bounce to resolve, so that's how long I would hold to see what sort of numbers she is getting on the 12 unit dose. The larger 13 unit depot can also influence 4-6 cycles after a reduction.

As for how long you hold a dose that is giving green, TR suggests evaluating the dose every 6-10 cycles. I would always look at what sort of green I was getting and if I was happy with the nadirs. With experimentation, I found that for Neko, a good dose was one that was getting nadirs in the 70's. That would keep her mostly under renal threshold. As with all cats, and even more so with high dose cats, you have to learn what works for Summer. That "happy nadir" number might be different for her. And of course, be cautious that whatever underlying condition is causing Summer's need for more insulin can change. Whether it be Cushings or acromegaly, the underlying tumours can go up and down, changing the amount of insulin needed. But they can also be steady - I once held Neko's dose for 3 months cause it kept giving me good nadirs.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
First of all, here is the link to the day before's post where Summer had those low numbers: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/help-summer-is-39.191487/ We call things a hypo, when there are hypo symptoms, otherwise it's just a low numbers event, which is anything below 50 on the human meter (not 60). Other than hunger or hanging around the kitchen, Neko never showed symptoms either. Good job handling those numbers though. Since there isn't a post today, I'll continue on this one, though we typically suggest starting a new post each day.

I am glad you did the 1 unit reduction as Karen suggested. Now you have to hold the dose long enough for the bounce to be over. Once the bounce is resolved, you can see if this dose is getting her into green numbers and if she is holding the reduction. It can take up to six cycles for a bounce to resolve, so that's how long I would hold to see what sort of numbers she is getting on the 12 unit dose. The larger 13 unit depot can also influence 4-6 cycles after a reduction.

As for how long you hold a dose that is giving green, TR suggests evaluating the dose every 6-10 cycles. I would always look at what sort of green I was getting and if I was happy with the nadirs. With experimentation, I found that for Neko, a good dose was one that was getting nadirs in the 70's. That would keep her mostly under renal threshold. As with all cats, and even more so with high dose cats, you have to learn what works for Summer. That "happy nadir" number might be different for her. And of course, be cautious that whatever underlying condition is causing Summer's need for more insulin can change. Whether it be Cushings or acromegaly, the underlying tumours can go up and down, changing the amount of insulin needed. But they can also be steady - I once held Neko's dose for 3 months cause it kept giving me good nadirs.
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Thanks so much Wendy for replying and for the great advice. But i just feel like whether Summer or any cat has symptoms or not that when they go low it is hypo. I read here on the board where it says " how to treat hypos because they can kill," it says on there are cats that have no symptoms and it shows the mild, moderate and severe symptoms. It is calling them all hypoglycemic or low blood sugars and they need to be treated immediately. Although summer had no symptoms other than being hungry which is one of the mild symptoms, i still look at it as her being hypo. Sorry. But i disagree here. But i do appreciate your great advice here for sure!!:)
 
Summers Mom said:
Thanks so much Wendy for replying and for the great advice. But i just feel like whether Summer or any cat has symptoms or not that when they go low it is hypo. I read here on the board where it says " how to treat hypos because they can kill," it says on there are cats that have no symptoms and it shows the mild, moderate and severe symptoms. It is calling them all hypoglycemic or low blood sugars and they need to be treated immediately. Although summer had no symptoms other than being hungry which is one of the mild symptoms, i still look at it as her being hypo. Sorry. But i disagree here. But i do appreciate your great advice here for sure!!:)
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It depends on your definition of low - 50 is NOT hypo although it may be lower than you are used to. Many still give a full dose on a 50 at preshot. ECID.
 
Juliet said:
It depends on your definition of low - 50 is NOT hypo although it may be lower than you are used to. Many still give a full dose on a 50 at preshot. ECID.
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Well why does it say here on the "hypos can kill page that it is hypo?" IMO it is. I have shot summer 54 before also so it is not her first time being low. But it is her first time being HYPO. Just my opinion...
 
Summers Mom said:
Well why does it say here on the "hypos can kill page that it is hypo?" IMO it is. I have shot summer 54 before also so it is not her first time being low. But it is her first time being HYPO. Just my opinion...
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Hypos can kill. 50 is not a hypo.
 
Summers Mom said:
Summer was not 50. Summer was 39 on my prime meter and she was 31 on my confirm meter. To me, yes that is hypo and she was meowing for food and that is one of the symptoms.
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I have read other posts where there have been cats with symptoms of "hypo" in the 60s, remember ECID, and that lovely phenomenon called meter variance. Just MHO, I don't fuss using the term when I see symptoms that need action. You did well Debra to bring Summer back up..that's what is important.
 
I think it's good to be cautious, and to think of any below-50 number as a hypo or a potential hypo. Not every cat shows external symptoms at all the waypoints before seizures, that doesn't mean that there aren't physiological and biochemical events happening before that point. It doesn't mean that those events always happen every time a cat dips below 50-- varies from cat to cat and day to day, the point is there is no way to know for sure on any given day. The downside for guessing wrong and adding too many carbs is minor compared to the downside of guessing wrong in the other direction.

That said, yes, around here if there aren't visible symptoms, we'd tend to just refer to the event as "low numbers". But it sounds like Summer was showing some signs, in any case. Glad she came back up for you, and congrats on earning the reduction!
 
Cats not on insulin can test in the 40's. We have even seen a couple OTJ cats in high 30's. But we don't want cats on insulin to go there as there is no room for error. Hence 50 is our take action number. 31 on the Confirm is low. The first time Neko saw greens she was howling for food. Not hypo, just lower than she was used to. And we have seen kitties above 50 staggering which is hypo. Know thy cat, know what is low for them and react accordingly.
 
Christie & Maverick said:
I have read other posts where there have been cats with symptoms of "hypo" in the 60s, remember ECID, and that lovely phenomenon called meter variance. Just MHO, I don't fuss using the term when I see symptoms that need action. You did well Debra to bring Summer back up..that's what is important.
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Thank you so much! :)
 
Nan & Amber said:
I think it's good to be cautious, and to think of any below-50 number as a hypo or a potential hypo. Not every cat shows external symptoms at all the waypoints before seizures, that doesn't mean that there aren't physiological and biochemical events happening before that point. It doesn't mean that those events always happen every time a cat dips below 50-- varies from cat to cat and day to day, the point is there is no way to know for sure on any given day. The downside for guessing wrong and adding too many carbs is minor compared to the downside of guessing wrong in the other direction.

That said, yes, around here if there aren't visible symptoms, we'd tend to just refer to the event as "low numbers". But it sounds like Summer was showing some signs, in any case. Glad she came back up for you, and congrats on earning the reduction!
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Thank you! :)
 
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