I had my cat stabilized at around 250 @ 2.0 units LANTUS for weeks, on a strict diet of Friskies classic pate--yesterday he posted a noon reading of 54, the first day I skipped noon insulin and gave 1.5 at midnite for a reading of 275-315, but then he posted 54 again noon today, gave Karo and skipped insulin....is he going onto remission? Help?
Sudden crash
- Thread starter valbecker
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Do you have any blood glucose test data that you can post? Most of us keep spreadsheets but even if you can list out several days worth of data it will give us a better sense of your cat's numbers.
And just so you know, we don't necessarily look at 54 as a dangerous number. It's in the normal BG range.
And just so you know, we don't necessarily look at 54 as a dangerous number. It's in the normal BG range.
Sarah and Simba
Member Since 2011
That's a scary ride! Sienne & the other experts here will be able to help you when she's seen a little numba history 
BJM
Member Since 2010
valbecker said:
If "I skipped noon insulin " means you were going to shoot at noon and he was a 54 at noon ... yeah, he's running low .. and who knows how low he went.
You need to be testing around +6, that is, 6 hours after the insulin shot, in order to know how low he is going during the 12 hours. It wasn't clear from your post if that was when you were testing.
Maybe he's dropping his requirement for insulin and working towards remission.
We'll need a bit more data to assist you.
What is your schedule for giving the Lantus and for getting blood glucose tests?
Have you read over the sticky notes here about dose changes and do you understand them?
Do you have a spreadsheet members can review? (info in the sticky notes on how to create one)
If he is less than 50 at +6, rather than skipping doses, he earns a dose reduction at the next shot time. You need to stay at the new dose for a minimum of 6 cycles for the levels to become stable, unless he is < 50 again.
Christie & Willie (GA)
Member Since 2010
Quick question...are you doing a double check reading when getting those 54s? With some meters, if you don't get enough blood on the strip, it will still give you a reading, but the number will be very low. Happens with my meter quite often, so thought I'd ask!
I moved him to noon testing only once I had him relatively stabilized, here are noon readings from Mon Feb 7, starting a new bottle of LANTUS
308----262--- Feb 10-- 60 (skipped insulin, then 492 at midnite, resumed 2.0 units)----282---265---190----173---253---273---225--333---Feb 22---179--266---312---258---Wed Mar 2-194----238--269--134---270---298---258--263---195--282--then Tues 54 , Wed 300, today Mar 17 noon 54
308----262--- Feb 10-- 60 (skipped insulin, then 492 at midnite, resumed 2.0 units)----282---265---190----173---253---273---225--333---Feb 22---179--266---312---258---Wed Mar 2-194----238--269--134---270---298---258--263---195--282--then Tues 54 , Wed 300, today Mar 17 noon 54
Yeah, I'm using Bayer contour and double checked the low readings, plus he was exhibiting crashing symptoms, vocalization, etc---
I've been dosing at noon right after the reading because I thought LANTUS was much more stabile than Humulin-N, or so my vet told me......
I've been dosing at noon right after the reading because I thought LANTUS was much more stabile than Humulin-N, or so my vet told me......
Sarah and Simba
Member Since 2011
Hi Val, These other ladies will be able to go into how Lantus works, but I'm having trouble understanding your readings and what time they were taken (which I do know is important with Lantus!)
Are you techy at all? would you be able to set up a spreadsheet real quick?
The instructions for setting it up and sharing it with us are here
Sorry I can't help more right away :sad:
Are you techy at all? would you be able to set up a spreadsheet real quick?
The instructions for setting it up and sharing it with us are here
Sorry I can't help more right away :sad:
Sarah and Simba
Member Since 2011
Oh I see...
Feb 7, 12pm: 308
Feb 8, 12pm: 262
Feb 10, 12pm: 60 / NO SHOT
Feb 11, 12am: 492/ Gave 2u
Feb 12, 12pm: 282
... that kind of thing? It's just hard to read all in a long line, nothing correlates so it's hard for anyone to advise. That's why we do a spreadsheet so that it's easy to see patterns and recognize what changes need to happen to regain balance in your kitty.
Also, maybe unlike the insulin you were using prior, Lantus doesn't depend on the preshot value to determine dosage. The value that indicates what dosage you should give is the value that is lowest in the cycle. Did your vet do a curve with your kitty?
Feb 7, 12pm: 308
Feb 8, 12pm: 262
Feb 10, 12pm: 60 / NO SHOT
Feb 11, 12am: 492/ Gave 2u
Feb 12, 12pm: 282
... that kind of thing? It's just hard to read all in a long line, nothing correlates so it's hard for anyone to advise. That's why we do a spreadsheet so that it's easy to see patterns and recognize what changes need to happen to regain balance in your kitty.
Also, maybe unlike the insulin you were using prior, Lantus doesn't depend on the preshot value to determine dosage. The value that indicates what dosage you should give is the value that is lowest in the cycle. Did your vet do a curve with your kitty?
Sorry to ask for more of an explanation are these numbers for a given day?
We look at the AM and PM pre-shot test as the starting point for a 12-hour clock. The hour after the shot is +1, 2 hours after is +2. We also get a test at every shot time. Since Lantus dosing is based on the nadir, spot checks are also important data. If you look at Gabby's spreadsheet (it's attached to my signature), you'll get a sense of how we accumulate our test data.
- Feb 10-- 60 (skipped insulin, then 492 at midnite, resumed 2.0 units)----282---265---190----173---253---273---225--333
- Wed Mar 2-194----238--269--134---270---298---258--263---195--282
We look at the AM and PM pre-shot test as the starting point for a 12-hour clock. The hour after the shot is +1, 2 hours after is +2. We also get a test at every shot time. Since Lantus dosing is based on the nadir, spot checks are also important data. If you look at Gabby's spreadsheet (it's attached to my signature), you'll get a sense of how we accumulate our test data.
Sorry about the confusion, those numbers are each noon readings on subsequent days, I threw the dates in there to give a sense of where I'm at in the month.............they range from Feb 7 to the present, some days I didn't take a reading but still gave the shot......
The readings were all at noon, then shot given right after. I wasn't aware of the nadir testing requirement, I was still testing like he was on Humulin N
The readings were all at noon, then shot given right after. I wasn't aware of the nadir testing requirement, I was still testing like he was on Humulin N
Sorry to ask for more of an explanation are these numbers for a given day?
* Feb 10-- 60 (skipped insulin, then 492 at midnite, resumed 2.0 units)----282---265---190----173---253---273---225--333
* Wed Mar 2-194----238--269--134---270---298---258--263---195--282
Feb 10---60
Feb 11 ---282
Feb 12--265
Feb 13--190
Wed Mar 2 the noon reading was 194.....
the next day the noon reading was 238, and so on....as I said in the first post, he was averaging about 250 for the noon reading
* Feb 10-- 60 (skipped insulin, then 492 at midnite, resumed 2.0 units)----282---265---190----173---253---273---225--333
* Wed Mar 2-194----238--269--134---270---298---258--263---195--282
Feb 10---60
Feb 11 ---282
Feb 12--265
Feb 13--190
Wed Mar 2 the noon reading was 194.....
the next day the noon reading was 238, and so on....as I said in the first post, he was averaging about 250 for the noon reading
BJM
Member Since 2010
This?
If this is what you mean, please, please, please read the Lantus stickies! The pattern of several high-ish preshots with a sudden low preshot, suggests you may be giving too much insulin in each shot.
And, as Sienne indicated, the dose is based on the lowest value in a curve (a series of glucose tests taken either every 2 hours or every 3 hours).
Sarah and Simba said:
If this is what you mean, please, please, please read the Lantus stickies! The pattern of several high-ish preshots with a sudden low preshot, suggests you may be giving too much insulin in each shot.
And, as Sienne indicated, the dose is based on the lowest value in a curve (a series of glucose tests taken either every 2 hours or every 3 hours).
Sarah and Simba
Member Since 2011
Hi Val,
I know it's frustrating at first, especially when you're worried and need fast answers!
Sienne will be able to help you, but you need to help her help you. Can you continue the list you started and also indicate which days you didn't get a reading before the shot.
Only you have the information required to make a (possible) change, and the better you're able to communicate that information, the better these experts can make decisions and give you advice.
I'm really sorry it's so difficult, but it WILL get easier and we WILL get you cat back on track with a little hard work and perseverance.
BIG HUGS!
Sarah.
I know it's frustrating at first, especially when you're worried and need fast answers!
Sienne will be able to help you, but you need to help her help you. Can you continue the list you started and also indicate which days you didn't get a reading before the shot.
Only you have the information required to make a (possible) change, and the better you're able to communicate that information, the better these experts can make decisions and give you advice.
I'm really sorry it's so difficult, but it WILL get easier and we WILL get you cat back on track with a little hard work and perseverance.
BIG HUGS!
Sarah.
Nina and KB
Member Since 2009
At a minimum, I would suggest a test before each shot, and one right at bedtime. If you don't know what's happening in-between shots and you've gotten a few low readings, he might be going even lower when the insulin really kicks in.
Sarah and Simba
Member Since 2011
OK Val, see you later :smile:
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