Stupid Move - 283AMPS

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RobbiesMom

RobbiesMom

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OK so I was afraid this would happen - I made 2 changes and now not sure which is having the bigger effect or if it's both or what. Fed Robbie 1/2 a can with lots of water at 3am - he still cried at 5am but only a bit I held him and put him in my bed and he sat for a bit than went and cleaned himself, pooped and went to sleep. I over slept the 6:30 alarm and woke up to it at 7am - jumped up cause AMPS for him is 6:30 - checked him and he was 283??? 283? Haven't seen yellow in the morning since our second day - I have to leave for work no later than 9:30 - nobody will be around here till late in the afternoon - I just couldn't shoot 4.00 on a 283 I know it's with him not having eaten since 3am (4 hours prior) but before I wasn't shooting on the post food numbers really - I'd wake up at 5am test him get a high 300 or a 400 and feed him - wait till his shot time at 6:30 and test again and it would usually be higher but I'd really be focused on that pmps +11 number more than the amps number. Now I'm looking at AMPS of 283. So I shot 3.00 and will test him before I leave for work at 9:30 and see where he is - he had a full can of FF with his Metimucil in it right after his shot. Hope I did a decent thing - if I was going to be home or could get home I'd have shot 4..00 THOUGHTS please??
OH DAMN and now we may never know, till next cycle what is going on - as I'm typing this he pushed the door into the other room open and I didn't notice so now he's had either a lick or a few bites or more of his sisters food which is gravey FF - and shoots his numbers up (we are finishing off the case of this food with her and not having it in the house again although it's her favorite and she hates the other stuff)
 
I am not one to give dosing advice.
I do know a little about nutrion & some supplements. One word popped out in your post....Metamucil. Are you talking about the daily fiber supplement for humans?
Which one are you using?

Please beware many of the Metamucils have sucrose in them. That is sugar. Also, the sugar free Metamucil has a additive ingredient called Aspartame. Which is a artificial sweetener.
Aspartame is used in diet sodas along with other many sugar-free products on the market. It causes water retention & tons of other side effects in humans. If you want to know about other side effects do a quick google search on Aspartame. It is actually not a very good ingredient. Since it causes so many side effects in humans just think what it could do to a animals body.
When you are trying to give more fiber remember that its like a carb. The Metamucils have carbs in them. Even the Clear & Natrual Metamucils.

Just thought I would share just in case you didnt know.
 
Oh, good call on the metamucil Jenn, I totally missed it. You're right about the sweetener and carbs, is Robbie on it for constipation? If so then mirilax may be a better option, daily therapy with psyllium husks is raising the carb input quite a bit if you're using it. Also psyllium can cause blockage if the cat is not getting enough water with the dose. I have a civvie with big pooping issues at the moment, he's a big Maine Coon too, and he's been doing really well on 1/4 tsp mirilax 2x a day. I'm trying to ween him down to a once a day dose without having him get stopped up again, because the manual poo removal and enemas are no fun for either of us.
 
WOW - another angry call to the vet coming up I think. yes, he's on daily breakfast and dinner Metimucil - he has what is called MEGA COLON and has had some really bad constipation issues in the past few years including being at the ER VET at 3/4am with him foaming at the mouth and writhing in pain because he hadn't pooped in 3-4 days - both times were when we were on vacation and we arrived home to him in really bad shape. Right now he's drinking so much water I've cut back a bit on the metamucil cause he's pooping pretty well. The Met. is sugar free, gluten free but does have Psyllium husk in it. I'll go google it - it does not appear to have aspertame in it. Is mirilax prescription? I'll have to check that out too I think my mom took that once when she was in the hospital.
That's helpful ladies and thank you
 
I think the Miralax would be a lot safer to use. You can purchase it at Walmart or Target, Walgreens etc. no script needed. Dr. Pierson recommends it. About 2 months ago I was on a thread talking about constipated because I had just had Baxter in the vet for severe constipation that required a manual clean. I also almost need medical attention because it was horrible for me to stand there & watch Baxter go though the procedure. Dr. Pierson came on to the thread & commented & recommend the Miralax mixed with water then mixed into the food. She recommended to start with 1/8 or 1/4 tsp 2x day. Make sure you mix it with the water. It pulls water from the body. So it's easy for the cat to become dehydrated.

All the Metamucils I saw that were sugar free had the ingredient Aspartame in them. I would discountinue use it admittedly. It also has unneeded carbs in it.

I think you will be happy with the Miralax. It isn't that expensive either. I think I paid almost $10 for the big bottle. I saw it at Walmart for under $9.
 
Same problem with my Maine Coon, vomiting, looked like he was dying cause he was in so much pain, 1am visit to the ER for a manual clean out and enema. My husband asked if he could have the poo ball bronzed so he could show everyone what a $275 turd looked like! The miralax is awesome, tasteless and dissolves easy. The generic is like $5 at walmart, will last you a very long time.
 
hi ellen,

i've asked cathy/cini mini to come and talk to you about robbie and the asthma. only, hahahaha it looks like the issue for today is poo! :lol: so she's going to think i'm crazy!

can you rehash what you told me earlier about the steroid, asthma story with robbie? cathy recently switched cini mini to something new. maybe her experience will help robbie.

hope you're having a super evening!
 
:-D

Hi Ellen, nice to meet you.

Cini Mini wants Robbie to lay down on the couch here and just say what ever comes to his mind. :lol:
 
Wow - this is super informative - Robbie's had about 5 enemas in the last few years - I swear I want to learn how to give him one because at the ER Vet it costs us about $800 for the xray (they won't just give him the enema on my say so - have to confirm he's blocked) and the enema. Sadly the enemas from our regular vet are the only ones that seem to work - I tell him "you've got the golden touch" . I don't even want to think about a "manual cleanse" I do not believe we've been thru that and I pray we never will. He was on lactulose for a while too - and that does have sugar in it so we discontinued that except in real emergencies (which knock on wood we haven't had recently).

OK the ASTHMA issue - he was DX and got a shot of pred when he was about 3 (8 years ago) - we did inhaled meds for about a year - he hated it started getting nasty when he saw the aerokat - so we ended up using pills for about a week when he had a really bad bout than weaning off for 3/4 days and that would be about once every 6 weeks to 12 weeks - we did that for about 4-5 years (I'd have to check all our paperwork for real accuracy) and the asthma appears to be allergy related as it gets worse in Spring etc. and his eyes get red-rimmed and his nose gets stuffy. He was on some allergy pills but there isn't much that works with cats and he didn't respond to it in any tangible way. Finally about 2 years ago he's having a really hard time, not able to clear the wheezing easily and I was using the albuterol on him a lot and the pills weren't really working - we go in and the vet says he can give him another shot but it's risky since he's been on the pills so much, the pred. isn't great for his body etc. etc. but we were going away and I was really nervous about leaving him that wheezy sounding so we opted for the shot (which would always clear him right up). Our vet and I both agree that last shot really pushed him over the edge and we both have been kicking ourselves ever since - within 2 months or so he was DX with diabetes first time around (this was 18 months ago) when I noticed him drinking tons of water, and he lost weight. Now all we use is albuterol if he gets bad - this time of year that normally starts but so far he's been OK. Oddly the wheezing really only shows up when he purrs - and his lungs have almost always been perfectly clear when we bring him in - it's really upper resp. but our last trip his lungs were a tad effected so he might be getting a bit worse.
 
Hi Ellen,

What I have found that works for Cini Mini is Terbutaline syrup. I get it compounded at a veterinary pharmacy in to a sugar free liquid. Terbutaline works like Albuterol in that it's a bronchial dilator but you can use it long term.

An important thing to keep in mind is that the Albuterol is keeping the airways open but it's not going to help with inflammation. You still have to keep up with an inhaler like Flovent or Flixotide to keep the inflammation down as well.
 
thank you Cathy -I truly appreciate you taking the time to address this issue here I was awaare that the Albuterol is doing nothing for the inflammation but it does help him "clear" his airways - It's odd I've watched dozen of clips of asthmatic cats during "attacks" and he doesn't really look much at all like that - his issue seems to be further up more bronchial if that makes sense and is somehow "activated" by his purring- while he can and does purr without wheezing he never wheezes without having started out purring. Don't get me wrong I'd like to be giving him something for the inflammation but from what I've experienced both as someone with allergy induced asthma myself and thru the Fritz the Brave site and the Yahoo FAIM site the inhalers that help with inflammation involve steroids and while I know it doesn't pass into the blood stream in the way the pills or shots do I've stayed away from the flovent since he was DX with diabetes and also frankly because after a year+ of using it he wasn't a bit better. Now, I can see how he's worse and I would consider going back to the flovent (although he HATE, HATE, HATES the aerokat and even with treats before and after every treatment he got nasty at just the site of the aerokat) if I felt secure it wouldn't effect the diabetes which at this point is really more life threatening for him.
I will now have to look into this terbutaline syrup and see if this is something to pursue - does it strictly do what the albuterol does but lasts longer? What, if you don't mind and have a chance, is the main advantage to the syrup and how is it administered?
 
Hey Ellen,

I know exactly where you are coming from. Cini doesn't have textbook asthma either. Typically he wheezes once during the change in weather season and I never hear from him again. But, since I have maintained him on the Terbutaline syrup and Flixotide inhaler the last two weather change episodes have not even resulted in Cini clearing his throat.

How many puffs and how often were you giving the Flovent? When you say you were using it for a year, was that a continuous non-stop year or just off and on when Robbie was actively wheezing?

Although Albuterol and Terbutaline may help to expand Robbie's airways and ease the wheezing it will not help with the inflammation occurring in his lungs. So, in essence you are making his airways expand to accommodate more inflammation when you don't use the steroids to ease the inflammation.

If his asthma or wheezing is getting worse then breathing and getting air will outweigh any risks associated with diabetes. Remember, insulin is your friend. Giving more insulin at a time Robbie may need it and reducing it later is much easier than trying to get more air in him to breath.

Has Robbie ever had an ultrasound done of his heart? Purring comes from the circulatory system. Maybe his purring and then wheezing is more heart related than lungs?

And Cini is the same way with the AeroKat spacer! Of all the poking and prodding and injections he gets you would think a mask over the face would be a piece of cake! But he runs every time! :lol: I do have to scruff him when I give his inhaler and then after the 3 rd breath he relaxes and I can ease up on my grip.
 
Cini Mini's Mom said:
How many puffs and how often were you giving the Flovent? When you say you were using it for a year, was that a continuous non-stop year or just off and on when Robbie was actively wheezing?
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It was once originally twice a day - one shot of albuterol - one shot of flovent than I reduced it to once a day when he started literally ripping at my hand while I held him - did that for a solid year maybe a tad longer and nothing changed. The pills would keep him from having ANY episodes for weeks and weeks after he was on it for 10 days but it made him nasty and he ate like a lunatic, hungry all the time - I knew it wasn't good for him. The shots also worked really well but worse for him still. His actual breathing has not been an issue - he's been at the vet in full wheeze form and they are listening to his lungs and all is clear. What's starting to get worse is he used to wheeze, wheeze and you would be saying "just COUGH it up Robbie" and eventually he would and it would all clear up and he'd be fine - but now he just sometimes can't seem to clear it up that easily. Our last visit to the vet was the FIRST time he said "his lungs sound a tad effected but not too badly" at that point we assessed where he was with the asthma, arthritis and diabetes and both felt that at that MOMENT the diabetes was making him feel the worst and doing the most harm to his body. So we are focused on that for a bit - not letting the rest slip by the wayside but just one thing at a time. However I will be going over the new info I've gotten here with my vet very soon as we are heading in to Robbie's worst time of year allergy wise.
Cini Mini's Mom said:
Has Robbie ever had an ultrasound done of his heart? Purring comes from the circulatory system. Maybe his purring and then wheezing is more heart related than lungs?
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Interesting you say that. No he has not. However having lost a cant to HCM I've always made sure the vet listens to his heart very carefully - and we both had agreed that when he hit 10/11 we'd do an ultra sound - however all this other stuff came crashing down and finances just haven't allowed for a test that wasn't strictly or obviously called for. All the research I've done indicates that they really don't know HOW cats purr - so while it's not wrong to say it comes from the circulatory system the purring may also be made by the laryngeal muscles and many believe it's all triggered by the brain some say central nervous system and even others say it's vibrating blood vessels and not the voice box at all - while trying to figure out his purring/wheezing problem I've done a bit of reading. To me it sounds like he has GUNK in his throat - like we all would if we had allergies and didn't know how to or couldn't figure out how to clear our throats easily - it's got a real liquid sound to it when it's at it's worst and yet at that moment there is apparently no sound in his LUNGS of congestion. Go figure.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful advice and comments - it's so wonderful to find people with similar concerns and questions here - it's a huge relief to not feel alone in all this.
 
You are very welcome :-D

One other suggestion - Has he been tested for toxoplasmosis? This is what Cini Mini had. We thought it was asthma all these years. The original Vet that started him on the steroid injections never thought to test him for that and for several years we just shot him up with steroids because we thought the wheezing was due to asthma. :cry:

When I switched Vets years later and explained to her what Cini's symptoms were she said it sounded more like Toxo. And sure enough, he came back positive.
 
Cini Mini's Mom said:
One other suggestion - Has he been tested for toxoplasmosis?
Click to expand...

I don't believe so - although he's had numerous blood tests and I could have forgotten that this was one of the things he was tested for. He was on an antibiotic for a few weeks early on in case this was a sinus infection (since his nose tends to get stuffed up a lot) not sure that alone would have cleared up toxoplasmosis. He's a pure bred cat from a VERY reputable breeder who worked as a lab technician in a lab that performed diagnostic tests - she was ridiculously clean and careful with her cattery. He's never been outside, caught a mouse or a bird nor has he had raw meat of any kind. However, asking about the test can't hurt and I certainly will.
Now to go find your PM that never arrived...
 
Toxoplasmosis is transmitted through the air. Especially in low moisture, dry dusty climates. This is why pregnant women are not supposed to clean litter boxes, the fecal material can become dry and Toxo spores can get breathed in and transmitted to the fetus.

Toxo isn't treated with antibiotics, it's not a bacterial infection or a virus, it's a parasite.It can lay dormant in the dirt, grass, area around your house for up to a year. And then kitty walks in the area, licks a paw and then becomes infected. I don't know if you noticed from Cini's picture, but he doesn't have any eyes. So there's no catching birds or mice for him.

It can also go dormant in the infected animal for years and they not show any symptoms. Dogs also carry Toxo but it is rare that it gets transmitted from a dog to a cat. From what I understand the dog version is not the same as the cat version.

Toxo parasites can live in any part of the body. For Cini Mini, it was in his chest. It was showing up as asthma scarring in the lungs and the reason why he was given steroids all these years. He had a small mass right at the point of his sternum and we suspect that was where the toxo infection set in because after he was treated, the mass wasn't there any more.

Toxo treatment is very rough on a cat. It has to be given 30 continuous days and if you miss a day you have to start all over again. It can also make the cat nauseated and produce stomach acid that backs up in to the esophagus. The esophageal erosion is what landed Cini in the emergency hospital and I almost lost him. So be very careful if Robbie does test positive and you have to treat for it. You'll want to make sure you have as much anti-nausea, ant-acid meds on hand as possible.
 
Interesting before writing anything I read about 3 websites with info on Toxo - they all said NOTHING about it being transmitted to cats via airborne - they actually said from catching mice, birds etc. - they ALL did mention the caution for pregnant women cleaning litter boxes but since some things can be transmitted to humans in different manners than animals I thought that wasn't the case with cats (catching it airborne) - they also mentioned antibiotics as PART of the treatment. This could be something to consider with Robbie - I hope not as the treatment sounds horrendous although having this be OVER for him would be a blessing too. I'm still not sure where he would have picked it up as he literally has never set foot outdoors in his entire life - BUT it sounds curious enough that I'll be getting him tested for sure.
Thank you.
 
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