Starting to Pee in our Living Space :(

[megmonger]

We are relatively new here, still working on getting our Abby's BG regulated after 5 months with no success with our vet. We're making slow progress (finally!) now thanks to everyone's help here.

A new issue has come up, and it is majorly stressing me out. Abby is 11 years old and has never had an issue with not using her litter box until about a month after her diabetes diagnosis this year. Since then she has been consistently peeing outside her box (still pooping in the box), at least limiting herself to the basement. We added a second litter box, clean them both every other day, bought Nature's Miracle to help make sure every basement spot gets thoroughly cleaned, and even switched to Attract litter about two weeks ago. As of just this week, she is now also peeing upstairs in our living space. Repeatedly now in our bathroom and the kids' playroom. This is a VERY big deal for our family. With two young kids, lots of carpets, and no extra minutes in the days already, I am just utterly at a loss about what to do. She was tested repeatedly for UTIs back when she was first diagnosed with GD in Jan-Mar and was given the all clear.

I am so afraid of what this behavioral change could mean. Is there any hope of resolving? I'm looking for help, and hope. Losing sleep over this one...

 

[Squeakycats]

So sorry you are going through this! Is the second box also in the basement? If so, is there somewhere you could add one in your upstairs living space? Is it possible to clean the boxes every day (or to alternate days, so there's always one that has been very recently cleaned)? How large are the boxes? Are they covered or uncovered? There may not be any magical configuration of litter boxes that will solve the problem, but making sure that they are very easy to get to, clean, big enough, etc. is a place to start.

Has she picked one place in the bathroom and one in the playroom to return to, or is she peeing in different spots every time? Is she still going up and down the stairs regularly, or is she spending more of her time upstairs?

How is her behavior otherwise? If you think she's stressed, you might try the Feliway diffusers. I'm sure others will have more ideas; that's just where I'd start. I hope Miss Abby will help you make progress on this issue quickly--it sounds like you have more than enough things to manage in your life already! It's great that her BG regulation is improving!

 

[JeffJ]

Good suggestion from Squeakycats. Maybe try different litter in each one. If the litter boxes are old, consider replacing...as they get stinky over time with urine.

I keep our litter boxes pretty clean.

If Miss Abby sees another cat outside, this could be misplaced territory marking. We have had territory marking inside...and cat pee is just the worst.

 

[Squeakycats]

Just thinking about your situation again this morning...obviously something has changed recently. The general peeing outside the box may have started because of the diabetes--with the amount of urine she was probably producing (assuming her BG was high), she may have been unhappy with the state of the box. Or she may just have felt uncomfortable and associated it with the box--perhaps continuing to poop in it because she felt she needed to dig but deciding she could pee elsewhere.

And then something else shifted to make her unwilling to go to the basement consistently. I wondered whether she might be feeling uncomfortable with climbing up and down them--my diabetic kitty has started to act a little arthritic. He's been less willing to jump onto and off of things and doesn't like to squat in the litter box now--just pees straight back (so I'm using a big plastic tote instead of a regular box)--I think that position may feel uncomfortable for him. I've got him on Cosequin, and it does seem to be helping.

The other thought that occurred to me about the upstairs change was this: is it possible that she just didn't make it to the box on one occasion and is now revisiting the area where that happened (like "oh, I didn't mean to pee there really, but it was kind of convenient...maybe I'll keep that up")? Putting boxes in the areas where she has peed might help you understand whether it's more about avoiding the box or about convenience. I know it's no fun to have litter boxes everywhere, but it beats random pools of pee. If you use a big tote (with a door cut into it) as I've been doing, less litter tends to get kicked around.

Anyway--just brainstorming. I know this isn't a wildly uncommon problem; I'll bet if you put "outside the box" in the search box, you might find more posts about it.

 

[megmonger]

Just thinking about your situation again this morning...obviously something has changed recently. The general peeing outside the box may have started because of the diabetes--with the amount of urine she was probably producing (assuming her BG was high), she may have been unhappy with the state of the box. Or she may just have felt uncomfortable and associated it with the box--perhaps continuing to poop in it because she felt she needed to dig but deciding she could pee elsewhere.

And then something else shifted to make her unwilling to go to the basement consistently. I wondered whether she might be feeling uncomfortable with climbing up and down them--my diabetic kitty has started to act a little arthritic. He's been less willing to jump onto and off of things and doesn't like to squat in the litter box now--just pees straight back (so I'm using a big plastic tote instead of a regular box)--I think that position may feel uncomfortable for him. I've got him on Cosequin, and it does seem to be helping.

The other thought that occurred to me about the upstairs change was this: is it possible that she just didn't make it to the box on one occasion and is now revisiting the area where that happened (like "oh, I didn't mean to pee there really, but it was kind of convenient...maybe I'll keep that up")? Putting boxes in the areas where she has peed might help you understand whether it's more about avoiding the box or about convenience. I know it's no fun to have litter boxes everywhere, but it beats random pools of pee. If you use a big tote (with a door cut into it) as I've been doing, less litter tends to get kicked around.

Anyway--just brainstorming. I know this isn't a wildly uncommon problem; I'll bet if you put "outside the box" in the search box, you might find more posts about it.

Thank you! To answer your earlier questions - both boxes are in the basement, although I'll be moving one upstairs to the bathroom now based on these suggestions. I just have to get a gate first that I can use to keep my toddler out of it while still allowing kitty to walk under the gate so she doesn't have to jump. One box is covered, one uncovered, both medium sized. We could clean the more often but honestly they are usually not even dirty by the time we clean every other day because she uses them so infrequently at this point. Usually there's like one poop in it and nothing else. They still smell like fresh litter. She has peed twice in each of two locations upstairs. So there is some consistency there. Also I noticed that it's only during the night that she's been doing this.

Your note about the stairs struck a good nerve - I think you're on to something. She is on B12 due to some signs of neuropathy in her hind legs and I watched her go down the stairs last night and her gait did seem off. She uses the stairs multiple times per day but I wonderful if she might indeed be uncomfortable and so looking for more convenient spots upstairs. Hopefully moving this second litter box will answer that. The only other item I noticed is that the two places she has peed upstairs are both associated with our kids - their playroom, and in the bathroom she always pees on my daughter's toddler potty. At first I thought maybe the potty smelled and that's why she's doing it, but I bleach that thing thoroughly so I'd be surprised if that's what it was.

So we'll move the second litter box. I've also started restricting her to the basement during the night and ::fingers crossed:: there's been no pee upstairs in two days (I'm almost afraid to say it out loud!) The big thing for us is whether there is any hope that she will ever return to using her litter box once her BG is under control. I sincerely, sincerely hope so. Just don't know how common that is that it resolves. :-/

THANK YOU again!

 

[megmonger]

Good suggestion from Squeakycats. Maybe try different litter in each one. If the litter boxes are old, consider replacing...as they get stinky over time with urine.

I keep our litter boxes pretty clean.

If Miss Abby sees another cat outside, this could be misplaced territory marking. We have had territory marking inside...and cat pee is just the worst.

I agree, cat pee is the worst! Quite a distinctive smell. :-X Thank you for your suggestions as well. Abby is an indoor-only kitty so I'm hopeful that territory marking is not at the root of it for us.

 

[Squeakycats]

It sounds like you are making progress with Abby--that's great!

It's indeed interesting that the upstairs peeing is only happening at night. In addition to not wanting to go up and down, she may also just be wanting to feel close to you. Sometimes peeing on things that smell like a favorite person is a (totally ineffective) affirmation of the relationship between the person and the cat--the cat may be marking the object with his/her own scent. They seem to be more prone to this kind of behavior if they're feeling ill or stressed, so it may improve as the BG situation does (even if the diabetes isn't making a kitty feel super-sick, they pick up on our stress about it--and although most of them tolerate testing and injections pretty well, they're not necessarily 100% thrilled about that becoming part of daily life). People often think their cat is seeking some kind of vengeance by, say, pooping in the bed when the person gets home after a vacation, but it's much more likely to be an expression of anxiety or weird, misguided kitty love.

It seems like a great idea to restrict her to the basement at night for a while; it'll reduce your stress level, which is good for all concerned, and may help prevent the upstairs peeing from becoming an ingrained habit! (This is really obvious but I feel like I have to say it anyway: be sure she has plenty of water and a cozy spot to sleep, so that the basement is a pleasant place for her--if you have a power outlet, you could try plugging in one of those Feliway diffusers near where she hangs out. I used to think those things were a scam, but I tried them out of desperation at one point when one of my cats was constantly beating on the other, and there was an immediate improvement.)

It doesn't sound like the litter is a problem, especially since it sounds like you're using a good quality one without a bunch of perfumes. You could try removing the cover from the covered box; many cats aren't nuts about covers. When I first read that on a vet's website, I tried to put myself in the cat's shoes, and the first thing I thought of was a particular tiny, airless outhouse/bathroom at a national park--it was so unpleasant that I thought "I would far, far rather pee in the woods than even set foot in here." And then I thought of port-a-potties. A clean box used by just one cat has got to be WAY less awful than either of those examples, but thinking about them made me decide to switch to a high-sided, uncovered box instead of the two covered ones I had--a cute domed thing, and a sort of cabinet with a hole in the door that looked like a normal piece of furniture.

I hope that things continue to improve for you and Abby! I admire you very much for being able to take such great care of a sick kitty while also raising young children and working! Maybe soon you'll be seeing more green boxes on the spreadsheet and less out-of-bounds cat pee. (I had to laugh when I saw the note in your spreadsheet about her sneaking a potato wedge from the dinner table--she sounds like quite a character. Her picture is adorable.)

 

[megmonger]

It sounds like you are making progress with Abby--that's great!
(I had to laugh when I saw the note in your spreadsheet about her sneaking a potato wedge from the dinner table--she sounds like quite a character. Her picture is adorable.)

LOL yes she is a character. And I never thought I'd experience the day when I had to wrestle a meatball out of my sweet little furball's mouth, but whaddya know, I can now check that box. She is fast! But she also is my baby - I've had her through my first home, first professional job, marriage, and both kids. So I can forgive her the shenanigans, once in a while...

I am looking into the Feliway now as several people have mentioned positive experiences with it.

Lastly, thank you so very much for your kind words. They really mean a lot, and have helped give me that extra boost I needed during some late-night cat-wrangling for BG checks recently.