starting dose

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George&Bert

Member Since 2009
I tried to reverse my cats BGs with diet, but no luck. She has been hovering around the low to middle threes.

I was thinking of a 0.5 units u100 BID starting dose.
 
hi george!

i didn't realize you weren't giving Andre any insulin yet. i think we were suggesting that you use the Start Low Go Slow protocol because of your circumstances. If you click on that link in blue, it will take you to the page. i'm also copying it here. you'll want to print it out so you can refer to it.

When you say you tried to regulate him by diet, does that mean you've been able to switch him to canned low-carb food?

5 Steps to Regulating Your Diabetic Cat
(the "Start Low - Go Slow" approach)

Developed by the Feline Diabetes Message Board community
written by Susan & Shadow

Equipment:
One cat with a confirmed diagnosis of diabetes (without complications such as diabetic ketoacidosis)
One bottle of long-acting insulin
.3 cc syringes with 30- or 31-gauge needles (with half-unit markings if you can get them)
Instruments for measuring blood glucose, such as a home glucometer and test strips
Lancets

One bottle of Karo or other glucose syrup
A printed copy of Melissa & Popcorn's Treating Hypoglycemia document

One bottle of Ketostix or Ketodiastix, for monitoring urine for ketones

Low-carbohydrate treats to reward the kitty
One very large bar of chocolate to reward the human (bottle of wine or carton of ice cream may be substituted or added as needed)
Before you start -- How Diet Affects Regulation:

This document is a description of a safe and conservative procedure for determining the proper dose of insulin for your cat. However, what and how you feed your cat are very important to this process. Some important dietary principles are:
Always be consistent in what you feed your cat in terms of protein, fat, carbohydrate, and fiber content of the diet, and when you feed your cat relative to the insulin dose.
Make sure that the type of insulin matches how you feed your cat. A shorter-acting insulin such as Vetsulin/Caninsulin often requires meal-feeding (or at least not feeding your cat after about 6 hours post-dose); longer-acting insulins such as PZI, Lantus, or Levemir may be more suitable for a cat who free-feeds.
Consider the content of the diet. Cats on diets which are low in carbohydrates (around 5-10% of total calories) usually require less insulin than cats on high-carbohydrate diets. In addition, a substantial minority (around 1/3) of cats who were previously on a high-carbohydrate diet may end up not needing insulin injections if carbohydrates are restricted. There is now research indicating that Lantus (insulin glargine) may improve your cat's chances of being diet-controlled. Caution: a low-carbohydrate diet may not be appropriate for some cats with health conditions such as chronic renal failure or pancreatitis; check with your vet to see if this diet is appropriate.
Five Steps to Regulation:

Step 1. Start at a low dose of PZI, Lantus, or Levemir insulin, as recommended by your vet. (Note: Humulin and Novolin Lente and Ultralente, two insulins with good track records in cats, have been discontinued by the manufacturers.) A conservative starting dose is 1.0-2.0 units, twice per day. If your cat’s blood glucose was less than 400 mg/dl (22.1 mmol/L) at diagnosis, or if your cat is on a low-carbohydrate diet, the starting dose should be only 0.5-1.0 units twice per day. Fast-acting insulins such as Humulin Regular, Humulin 70/30, and Humulin N (NPH) are not suitable starting insulins for cats, in the experience of FDMB members because of the high risk of hypoglycemia; Humulin N may be appropriate later on if you discover that longer-acting insulins cause problems for your cat. Vetsulin, also known as Caninsulin, is less harsh than Humulin N, but still appears to carry a risk of hypoglycemia, particularly for cats who are not meal-fed high-carbohydrate food, so please be aware of the risks.

Step 2. Don’t increase the dose until your cat has been on it for at least a week. If you have reason to be concerned about hypoglycemia, or if your cat won’t eat, do decrease the dose and contact your vet. Do test your cat’s urine frequently during the regulation process using Ketostix or Ketodiastix, and contact your vet immediately if the cat tests positive for ketones. Do be consistent in the timing and type of food. Do give the shots at about the same time every day.

Step 3. After 1-2 weeks at a given dose, you or your vet should perform a serial blood glucose curve (blood glucose tests every 2 hours, starting at shot time and continuing until the next shot). Follow the cat’s normal feeding schedule during the curve. The curve should be evaluated by someone experienced at interpreting feline blood glucose curves, in order to check for signs of rebound and other possible problems. If no rebound is present, follow these guidelines for dose adjustment (smaller adjustments may be appropriate for cats on PZI or Lantus):
a) If the lowest point of the curve is above 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), increase the dose by 0.5 unit.
b) If the lowest point of the curve is between 90 and 149 mg/dl (5.0 and 8.2 mmol/L), keep the dose the same.
c) If the lowest point of the curve is below 90 mg/dl (5.0 mmol/L), decrease the dose by 0.5 unit.
Step 4. Repeat the cycle of curving and waiting 1-2 weeks. As your cat’s blood glucose begins to fall mostly in the desired range [lowest point of the curve approaching 100 mg/dl (5.5 mmol/L) and pre-shot value around or below 300 mg/dl (16.6 mmol/L)], do lengthen the waiting time between dose increases. If you decide to change another factor (e.g., diet or other medications), don’t increase the insulin dose until the other change is complete (but do decrease the dose if your cat's glucose numbers consistently fall below 90 mg/dl (5.0 mmol/L) as a result of the change). Don’t be tempted to rush the process along by increasing the dose more quickly or in larger increments-- no matter how high your cat’s blood glucose is! Rushing towards regulation will cost you time in the long run, because you may shoot past the right dose.

Step 5. Once you can no longer increase the dose without the cat dropping below 90 mg/dl (5.0 mmol/L) at the lowest point, evaluate the duration of the insulin’s action. If your cat’s preshot blood glucose values are still consistently above 350 mg/dl (19.3 mmol/L), or if your cat’s blood glucose usually returns to preshot values more than an hour before the next shot is due, ask your vet about longer-duration insulins or possible adjustments to your cat’s food or feeding schedule.

That’s it — 5 steps! These steps are general guidelines that work for the majority of cats. Because every cat is different and exceptional situations may arise, your cat’s progress should be closely monitored by someone with experience regulating feline diabetics.
 
Hi Julie :)

I know this is a bit confusing....

Andre' is on Lantus and I just bumped his dose to 1.75 u BID from 1.25u BID

This is Matilda a very furry and chubby Maine coon. She is the one I tried to diet control. I am starting her tomorrow on Lantus..but unfortunately there is no skin to grab to tent anywhere. She is tight as a drum.
 
you want to make sure and only do increases of .25u at a time, george. especially when you're not testing much it becomes extra important to follow the most conservative choices.

so now you have 2 diabetic cats? but mathilda is calm enough to test? do you know what her BG at diagnosis was? is she eating only low carb or is there dry food in her diet as well? those answers (BG at diagnosis and dietary carbs) factor into the decision on starting dose.

Step 1. Start at a low dose of PZI, Lantus, or Levemir insulin, as recommended by your vet. (Note: Humulin and Novolin Lente and Ultralente, two insulins with good track records in cats, have been discontinued by the manufacturers.) A conservative starting dose is 1.0-2.0 units, twice per day. If your cat’s blood glucose was less than 400 mg/dl (22.1 mmol/L) at diagnosis, or if your cat is on a low-carbohydrate diet, the starting dose should be only 0.5-1.0 units twice per day. Fast-acting insulins such as Humulin Regular, Humulin 70/30, and Humulin N (NPH) are not suitable starting insulins for cats, in the experience of FDMB members because of the high risk of hypoglycemia; Humulin N may be appropriate later on if you discover that longer-acting insulins cause problems for your cat. Vetsulin, also known as Caninsulin, is less harsh than Humulin N, but still appears to carry a risk of hypoglycemia, particularly for cats who are not meal-fed high-carbohydrate food, so please be aware of the risks.

i think for both cats, the SLGS is going to be the approach that'll work best for your situation.
 
Hi Julie

All 20 some cats were on a high quality dry food with daily canned food as a treat. I did not realize one of the foods had insanely high carbs. Before I was only interested in what was or was not in the food and used Taste of the Wild and Natura Natural Balance which is Mega Carb as I found out too late. I had very healthy cats all former ferals.

In December I noticed a couple of my guys getting chunky. i had taken them off EVO dry because I thought that was making them fat.

Late December, Andre my newest feral came down with a very serious viral infection which took twelve weeks, hospital stays, tons of med and a multitude of vet visits to beat. It was during this time it was discovered he had DM. Prior to this there were no signs of anything with him.

I immediately researched the food and slowly changed to 6% carb EVO dry and started adding low carb canned at increasing rates to four med canned meals a day along with allowing him to graze Low carb dry.

Two weeks ago I took him to a vet for a BG check at midrange. Seeing the high number vet I'll call "B" said to double Andre's dose to 2.0 u BID. Seeing that his techs terrified him getting blood till he freaked and recalling the words here I increased the dose by .25 to 1.25 u BID

Noticing the still overly wet litter boxes and his glassy eyed stares I took him to the vet this time to a vet I'll call "A".
After keeping Andre' for a day and getting atmospheric reading he told me to in crease his dose again this time by 0.5 units
to a dose of 1.75 u BID.

I shoot him within a couple of minutes each dose and maintain a certain feeding procedure which I am modifying today to.
A canned food meal at injection. A heavier second canned food meal 3 to 4 hours after injection and if I can an additional canned food meal at between +6 to +8 if I am home. He seems happy enough, has a good appetite and purrs a lot and seems content. However, at certain times he seems a bit out of it and sometimes his eyes are a bit glassy.

Andre is a charming and affectionate cat who loves to rub noses and rubs his face against mine.

That's where I am with him.

Now on to Matilda...next post
 
Matilda is a big Maine Coon and gets constant grooming care from a vet tech at my home to keep her pretty.

A few weeks ago i noticed wet litter boxes in her area of the house. I could not tell who was doing it even after watching for a week and never catching. I took a guess she was the guilty party and pulled a test and read 340. I took her to the vet and he got about the same. We both decided it would be best to try and diet regulate her first if we could. So out came the high carb dry and in went EVO low carb dry(gradually) and now she gets three low carb meals a day. Her numbers are not dropping so I am going to start her at 0.5 u 100 BID if I can find loose skin..anywhere. So far she is too tight skinned.

That's we we are with Matilda..easy to test, hard to shoot.
 
Hi George,

Racci is also fat, super thick long furry haired and sometimes hard to shoot because her skin can be hard to grab. I've found that if she is very hydrated, it's much easier. Try and get Matilda to drink a lot of water before her shots, mix it in her food, get some water fountains and keep offering water. It makes a tremendous difference with Racci and probably will with Matilda also.

Melanie & Racci
 
Does she drink more with the fountain over a bowl? I can get one easily enough.

If it works I'll try it. :)

BTW I am having a vet tech come over and we are going to shave he bald for shooting and the warm weather.
 
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