Starburst update - day 7 of OTJ trial and lowest BG yet? Too low?

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StarburstMom

StarburstMom

Member Since 2021
When Starburst was diagnosed July 6th she weighed 10.3 lbs. A week ago it was up to 11.8. Today she weighed 12.2 lbs at the vet. She's in trial OTJ run while also starting subQs for ckd (vet wants 200-250ml/day for a week and recheck renal and cbc values). Is that a huge weight gain? Her appetite has been real good.

I did tell my vet I wasn't comfortable doing such a high amount (he initially wanted 300mls) and he swore hospitalized cats get twice that and reiterated we want to flush the kidneys. In the end, during training today we did 100 mls of saline (no idea why he wants saline instead of LRS but here we are).
Starburst seems fine but is super talkative since fluids, more active than usual, so I think she feels better. Since she is 12 lbs now I may go up to 150 mls tomorrow (he is such a highly respected vet here) and see how she does. It looks to me like the 100 mls is already absorbed 2 hours later.
 
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Good luck with starting the Trial, :cat: Is today 3?
You might want to ask some members about doing 100 mls of Saline per day instead of LRS
I used to give LRS to Tyler's brother who had kidney disease 100 ml per day
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Good luck with starting the Trial, :cat: Is today 3?
You might want to ask some members about doing 100 mls of Saline per day instead of LRS
I used to give LRS to Tyler's brother who had kidney disease 100 ml per day
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Today is day 3....crossing fingers.
I've reached out in several places asking about fluids and pretty much everyone says it shouldn't be more than 100 mls/day, but I am torn because he hasn't steered me wrong before, I do trust him and he is considered one of the best vets in my 500,000 population city. I did mention that i was going to give D-mannose and he said he wasn't familiar with it. I did get Starburst's resting respiratory rate today in case I wonder how she is over the next few days.
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
That's an awful lot of fluids. It can lead to pleural effusion and pulmonary edema.
Here is the link from Tanya's CKD page regarding fluids:
https://felinecrf.org/subcutaneous_fluids.htm

And about the dangers of overhydration:
https://felinecrf.org/symptoms_regulation_body_fluid.htm#overhydration
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I know, thanks. I've read them both, multiple times. I'm really torn because currently her creatinine jumped from 2.0 to 3.2 in a month though and I fear if I don't get enough fluids in her it won't go down. So I'm worried on one hand of overhydration and on the other hand continuing rapid progression of ckd.
 
StarburstMom said:
Today is day 3....crossing fingers.
I've reached out in several places asking about fluids and pretty much everyone says it shouldn't be more than 100 mls/day, but I am torn because he hasn't steered me wrong before, I do trust him and he is considered one of the best vets in my 500,000 population city. I did mention that i was going to give D-mannose and he said he wasn't familiar with it. I did get Starburst's resting respiratory rate today in case I wonder how she is over the next few days.
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Happy Day 3!
 
SubQs didn't go well. Getting needle in was easier than I thought, and she seemed fine with it. But once I let the fluids flow she fought me....hard...growling and pulling away (fluids were warmed to 95 degrees) and in the end she maybe got 20 mls and my finger got stabbed.
So for the Rest of the week my lunch break will be spent getting her to the vet for fluids.
I'm feeling defeated. But we are on day 4 of no insulin. Her BG is staying under 150 but with the daily drive to the vet with fluids we will see where she lands.
 
Burrito? Top loading carrier? Boxed into a corner? A second person?
Have had the needle life out of the cat with the fluids arcing across the room many times.

In the summer when it's hot, I've always done room temp or only slightly warmer fluids. Perhaps she was objecting to the warmth?
 
Had a second person, still managed to wiggle free.
Don't have a top loading carrier.
Never been able to burrito her.
She was in the corner, but on an ottoman (figured it was more comfortable for her).
I won't try and warm the fluids next time but she did react at the vet yesterday to room-temp fluids (also when they flowed) so I thought warmer would be better.
I don't want to stress her too much as I don't want her BG to rise too much (day 4 of OTJ trial). She does also react to my stress.
Ideally I may want a smaller gauge needle, maybe too much fluids too quickly and it's freaking her out? Maybe she just is weirded out by it....I would be. Hopefully she will get used to it over the next few days since the vet is closed Sunday.
This was my first time trying and didn't want to stab her again. I was able to get the needle in easier than I thought I would, so that's good. I also need to move where I put the bag (had to really reach to open the ball valve thing and couldn't see the reservoir as it was behind and above me). It's air conditioned here, so typically 78 degrees, so not hot for her as she is an indoor only cat.
I will try room temp next time, thanks
 
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Yes you could try getting a smaller needle, it will just take a little longer to finish giving the fluids. I had the larger ones and the smaller ones.
My kitchen table was against a wall so I would just stick one of this command hooks on the wall ,or just put a screw in the wall , I would hang it on that and put Perry on a towel on the kitchen table. I was lucky enough that he didn't mind it st all ,he would even purr. , good luck :cat:
 
Starburst is on day 7 of her OTJ trial, which has been complicated by daily trips to the vet for fluids until my needles come in and I try again to do it myself on Sunday. During the trial I have compared her Libre with ReliOn readings just to see if there is a pattern and the Libre reads consistently lower by about 20 points or so, so when it has read that she was under 60 before I figured she was likely around 90. Her Libre will reach the end of the 14 day run in a few hours and I feel we can get 2x day BG readings to see if she truly is OTJ. Just now her reading on the Libre was LO, we haven't had that before. I tested her BG via the ReliOn and it reads 60. Her numbers have been continuing to come down (besides a moderate spike when going to the vet) since we stopped insulin. This is good, right? She won't continue down to hypo territory without insulin, right? Basically, does this make sense or could it be a sign of something else?
 
StarburstMom said:
Starburst is on day 7 of her OTJ trial, which has been complicated by daily trips to the vet for fluids until my needles come in and I try again to do it myself on Sunday. During the trial I have compared her Libre with ReliOn readings just to see if there is a pattern and the Libre reads consistently lower by about 20 points or so, so when it has read that she was under 60 before I figured she was likely around 90. Her Libre will reach the end of the 14 day run in a few hours and I feel we can get 2x day BG readings to see if she truly is OTJ. Just now her reading on the Libre was LO, we haven't had that before. I tested her BG via the ReliOn and it reads 60. Her numbers have been continuing to come down (besides a moderate spike when going to the vet) since we stopped insulin. This is good, right? She won't continue down to hypo territory without insulin, right? Basically, does this make sense or could it be a sign of something else?
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As long as you are not giving any insulin they say no chance of hypo
Happy Day 7
 
StarburstMom said:
Starburst is on day 7 of her OTJ trial, which has been complicated by daily trips to the vet for fluids until my needles come in and I try again to do it myself on Sunday. During the trial I have compared her Libre with ReliOn readings just to see if there is a pattern and the Libre reads consistently lower by about 20 points or so, so when it has read that she was under 60 before I figured she was likely around 90. Her Libre will reach the end of the 14 day run in a few hours and I feel we can get 2x day BG readings to see if she truly is OTJ. Just now her reading on the Libre was LO, we haven't had that before. I tested her BG via the ReliOn and it reads 60. Her numbers have been continuing to come down (besides a moderate spike when going to the vet) since we stopped insulin. This is good, right? She won't continue down to hypo territory without insulin, right? Basically, does this make sense or could it be a sign of something else?
Click to expand...
Just for the heck of it, I randomly tested one of my non diabetic kitties (a civvie) and got a BG of 56. Without insulin, BG can safely go low. Congtats on day 7!
 
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