Stalling with "angry" cat...shoot?

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MollynSkooter

MollynSkooter

Member Since 2014
I am not sure if Skooter's body is just now catching up from his fur shot on Saturday night....

I have been sick since Sunday so I have only been able to get pre shot readings....I have his spreadsheet updated, but here on the last few days (he has been getting 5U after each shot):

06-30-14
AM: 318
PM: 357

07-01-14
AM: 324
PM: 533

07-02-14
AM: 169


While I am THRILLED his numbers FINALLY came down, this is new territory for me...I have not fed him and plan to test him again in about 20 minutes....I am not sure if there has been enough data collected on my spreadsheet to determine if I can give him a lower dose or if I should skip....or if his numbers are up in 20 minutes am I ok to shoot?

The other weird thing, is this morning was the first time he got really upset with me testing...I have not been able to get his right ear to bleed, so I am not sure if it is just his left ear is sore or what, but he hissed at me while I was trying to do it.....
 
his + 1/2 was 225....


1. How do I add that to his spreadsheet as they are in 1 hour increments? Or do I replace the 169 with 225? As of right now I have the 169 as the AMPS and a note in listing the 225 1/2 later

2. I am going to assume I guess it is ok to shoot him since he is at 225, I am just not sure if I should be giving the full 5U or if I should be giving less as I do not think I will be able to come home at lunch to test him. I will wait for another 15 mins or so before I leave for work in hopes someone might be able to give me some direction....
 
I like stalling and testing to see if you get a rising number. I don't have experience with Lantus but I cross posted to try and get some eyes here for you.
 
Thanks Rachel....

I guess I will shoot him, maybe with 4U as I am not sure I can come home and test him at lunch.....

Just worried because the last time I decreased his dose he started going high again on numbers, but I need to either inject or not inject and not injecting at all worries me....


so here is to hoping 4U will work!
 
Oh...also I'd test again before leaving. If he is still rising, I'd probably shoot. Not sure about dose though...
 
I am leaving in a few minutes and was running out of my window time to shoot....

Since he was trending up and was at 225, I ended up giving him 4U and we shall see what happens....If I can swing home during lunch to test him I will, fingers crossed I did the right thing!
 
So I was able to come home over lunch....

He tested at 387 at +5.5

I am not sure if I am doing the right thing when he is testing low by giving him less or if I am screwing up his system trying to get used to the 5U....

Any advice would be greatly appreciated...I did update his spreadsheet.....

Back to work I go!
 
Hi Rachel. Skooter started on a rather high dose. My Max started with 1 unit and went up from there .25 at a time. I'm ot a dosing expert but there are lots of them on the tight regulation support forum. You don't need to be following that protocol to report there. You want to find a dose that you can comfortably give every 12 hours and not keep switching if you want to get him regulated. I suggest two things. Read the sticky on the protocol for lantus and join our forum. We report our numbers every day and get help from the dosing pros.

Elise
 
He actually started at 1U a day back in May. We have slowly been working him up to the 5U per day.

I have been updating his spreadsheet each night with his numbers....I am just still so new at all of this and he was in such high numbers that now that he is starting to fall into a more normal range, I am not sure I know what to do with him lol

I will definitely take a look more in depth when I get home tonight....
 
Hi Rachel!

Actually, if you started at 1 unit back in May, it still looks like you went up too quickly. Did you go up in whole units? Like from 1 unit to 2 units to 3 units? Or how did you increase?

On your question about which number to post and where...you always post the ACTUAL number you get when you shoot...no matter what time it is...so if at your "usual" AMPS time, he was 169 and you "stalled" until he was at 225, and then you actually gave him his shot, his AMPS for today is going to be 225

What a lot of us do is put the +12 into the +11 cell in the cycle before...so in the +11 cell from last night, you could put +12 169 (and in the "Remarks", you can say "stalled for 2 1/2 hours")

Now for posting numbers in half hours (like if you test at +5.5) what you can do is put ### SPACE @ SPACE 5.5 (if you look at China's spreadsheet on 6/29, you'll see at +3.5, she tested at 124)

Remember tonight...since you stalled, you have to move back your PMPS shot time to 12 hours after shooting this morning. You can move the time back 15 minutes per cycle until you are back on the schedule you want to be on

I really think what might very well be going on is Skooter is bouncing from getting too much insulin....You don't have a lot of tests on the PM cycle, and most cats do go lower at night, and if he's going lower than his body is "used to", his liver is thinking there's something wrong and releasing lots of stored sugar and hormones to bring him back up quickly (bounce!)

Can you start getting PM tests every night? At least a "before bed" test? Looking at spreadsheets is like looking at a puzzle....if you don't have lots of pieces filled in, you can't really tell what the picture is.
 
I can start doing more PM testing...I am planning on doing an overnight curve this weekend as I want to get some numbers from that as well....


I just gave him his insulin, which is at about the 12 hour mark from this morning....We just got back from the vet and his weight is holding steady and he got a B12 injection....he was pretty stressed there and the car ride home, still his numbers were low (for him) at 289.....

Should I start decreasing his insulin now or wait until I can get some more PM numbers?
 
So just shot Skooter after he ate part of his dinner....he has now pretty much thrown everything up......

I think it is because he did not get his IBD medicine last night as I was in bed sick and slept through the alarm I set to give it to him....


I will keep an eye on him and test him a couple of times tonight.....I will also try to get him to eat the rest of his dinner.......

Before his shot, he tested at 289....how much should I be freaking out right now?
 
I would plan on getting a +2 tonight and see where he's at

If the +2 is lower than the Pre-shot test, it's a good indication that he may be going much lower

If it's about the same, then it's usually a "normal" cycle

If it's higher, it can indicate the beginning of a bounce.

Since you're home testing and have your spreadsheet set up, please come on over to the Lantus Tight Regulation forum

Everyone there uses Lantus, and you'll get the most experienced eyes to guide you.

(I forgot to tell you that when you put the numbers in yourself, like you did at +5.5 today, you have to "color" the cell yourself. Just click on the little icon at the top of the page that looks like a tiny paint can starting to tip over and choose the correct color for the number...in this case, that awful pink color for the 300's)

Please go back to your FIRST post (the one with the 911 on it) and "edit" the subject line. Just choose "No icon" instead of the 911. When we see that, our hearts race because it means there's a medical emergency. If you have a question, you can choose the ? icon. Only that first subject line shows up when people are scanning the board for problems, so once your emergency is over or your question answered, we ask that you remove the special icons
 
To recap:

PMPS = 289
given 5U, but threw up his dinner soon after shot

+.5 = 258
+1= 259
+1.5= 218
=2= 235

1. Is this an indication that his numbers are moving in the right direction and he should be ok from throwing up? His +2 is lower than his PMPS, but is higher than the +1.5

2. What additional testing should I do tonight?

3, If he is bouncing, should I be reducing his insulin in the morning, and if so to what dose?

Thanks....I am sorry, I am still a bit freaked and overwhelmed by everything.....
 
His +2.5 is 190....


I am really starting to freak out....is there something I should be doing to try and make his numbers go up?
 
No..he's doing fine!

We don't worry until they drop below 50 and he's got a ways to go

I think it's very possible the 5 units is too much, but the only choices are to either kind of start over from a lower dose or stay with it awhile longer and see if he earns and holds reductions

When he threw up, was it a "scarf and barf" (where he ate fast and threw up almost immediately?) If so, I'd go ahead and give him a teaspoon or so of food and see if he holds it down...if he does, another teaspoon in about 20-30 minutes until he's eaten his usual meal

The nice thing about getting that +2 is that it's kind of a "crystal ball"...it gives you warning that you need to test later in the cycle (if the number is lower than the Pre-shot)

190 is still a very safe number but since he's come down so much, you'll want to keep testing. I'd probably get a +4 next
 
I am planning on doing hourly checks on him because he just isn't himself.

I think he threw up because I have been sick for the last few days (on antibotics myself) and I slept through my alarm to give him his IBD medication. He also got a B12 injection from the vet's office today, and now from reading other posts, perhaps he got the wrong one as I do not think it was the methyl whatever one (at least I don't think it was).....

I put out some more food for him and he is eating it bits and pieces and then going for water....he has not thrown up since his dinner....

Sorry for being so freakish and paranoid, I am just so used to Skooter's numbers being so high that even the 200s are scary to me at this point.

I work tomorrow and then I have Friday, Saturday and Sunday off, so I am thinking I would like to stay at 5 units at least through breakfast tomorrow as I will not be able to come home at lunch to test him tomorrow. I am not sure if I screwed up this morning when I originally tested him he was 169, I waited 30 minutes and he was 225, so I gave him 4U instead of 5U....I am hoping I didn't screw up....I just feel so bad for him because he deserves someone who knows what the heck they are doing....

Perhaps lowering his dose over the weekend when I can continually test would be best? If so, what do I want to go down to?
 
I forgot to take into account Skooter's desire to be tested when I was going to test hourly :)

I think he has had about enough of me poking at his ear as he is now hiding from me, hopefully the numbers below are sufficient...If I have to put him through more testing I certainly will, but if I can stop for the night, I think he would appreciate that. I have put some of the neosporain with pain reliever on his ear, but I don't think he really appreciates that at this point lol

HOWEVER, I am feeling a little better as here is his recap from tonight:

PMPS = 289
+.5 = 258
+1 = 259
+1.5 = 218
+2= 235
+2.5 = 190
+3.75 = 253

I am still a little nervous about tomorrow morning and what my plan should be as far as if his numbers are low or not. I did remember to give him his IBD medication tonight, so I am not forseeing anymore throwing up. I have left a little food out for him so if he wants to pick through the night he can.
 
You can't do any permanent damage by shooting a lower dose. The only thing that happens if they need more is that their numbers will go up.

As long as you're checking for ketones (especially at higher numbers) you don't need to worry about a lower dose

Now you don't want to keep jumping around either. Lantus needs to be dosed consistently...the same dose, each cycle, every 12 hours unless the numbers tell you to increase or decrease.

Please come on over to the Tight Regulation Protocol forum and start posting there.

Each day, we start a new thread (we call them condo's). In the subject line, you put the date, cats name and the AMPS number...as you get more tests in, you go back to that FIRST subject line and "edit" to add them
So today's for you it would have looked like: 7/2 Skooter AMPS 225,+5.5 387,PMPS 289...etc..etc..

Then in the body of the message, first put the link to the prior post. "Copy" the address from the prior post, click on the URL tab and then "paste" the link...It will look like YOUR LINK HERE[url] That way we ... of us that watch for questions and problems.
 
If you can, you might want to set an alarm and see if you can get a test somewhere between +5 and +8 just to start filling in some of those "blanks" in your spreadsheet.

In the morning, if you can get a +11, that will give you something to compare to at AMPS time. If the number is climbing, it's almost always fine to shoot (if kitty is eating and otherwise doing OK)
 
I posted in the other forum as you suggested, hopefully I got everything I need. The copy and pasting of the URL thing still is a bit confusing for me....


I am happy to report he voluntarily came over to me and is currently sleeping on my pillow as I type....

I have set my alarm for 12:20 and 3:20, so let's hope I wake up for them, am able to find him and test :P

He did get his insulin a bit later than normal this morning due to the stalling, however I am hoping to get him back to his 645-7 shot time....I am guessing it should only take a few days as he shot at 07:25 this morning, so if I am going down in 15 increments, it shouldn't be that bad....

Thanks for all the help today!
 
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