Spike 10/28 PMPS 512, 0.90u Given.

Lee Renfro

Lee Renfro

Active Member
So, he is finally down to 160 this am, but he had been outside all night without food, so take that number for what it is, I guess. @FrostD
 
It's definitely still bringing him down, but by all means order a new one if it'll ease your mind.

He's coming down overall which is good. With that 160, even without food I'm hesitant to change anything about the dose.
 
FrostD said:
It's definitely still bringing him down, but by all means order a new one if it'll ease your mind.

He's coming down overall which is good. With that 160, even without food I'm hesitant to change anything about the dose.
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He stayed out on the porch all nite while I slept and fasted about 7 hours. He was at 121, so I skipped his AM dose. I hated skipping.

I'll fill in 9/20 numbers on the SS when I get home tonite. I think they were mid yellows and nothing alarmed me as I recall...lol

Well, I now trust the insulin is still good...lol
 
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Sigh

That 0.75U is too much in that 200s range now. I don't think you updated the sliding scale tab so I don't 100% remember where we're at. I think I'd still keep that 0.75U over 300, but you could always try just 0.5U over 200, plain and simple.
 
FrostD said:
Sigh

That 0.75U is too much in that 200s range now. I don't think you updated the sliding scale tab so I don't 100% remember where we're at. I think I'd still keep that 0.75U over 300, but you could always try just 0.5U over 200, plain and simple.
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Cut and pasted f.y.i. for now.

"So, I'm thinking 0.25U in the 150-225 range, 0.5U 226-275, 0.75U above that."


I'll update tab tomorrow during a break at work.

Thank you for checking on us.
 
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Ok. I keep wanting to get off this sliding scale, but doesn't necessarily look like he'll cooperate...

You could try baselining at 0.5U any time over 200 for a week or so and see how he does on a stable dose. Then below that, 0.25U in the 150-199 range.

Otherwise, I think
0.25U if 150-199, 0.5U if 200-299, 0.75U if 300+.
 
FrostD said:
Ok. I keep wanting to get off this sliding scale, but doesn't necessarily look like he'll cooperate...

You could try baselining at 0.5U any time over 200 for a week or so and see how he does on a stable dose. Then below that, 0.25U in the 150-199 range.

Otherwise, I think
0.25U if 150-199, 0.5U if 200-299, 0.75U if 300+.
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I'm trying to keep him near the 0.50u dosage and you can see 5hat I'm trying to mKe the 0.75u shots skinny (about 0.65u-ish). I hope that with some consistency, he will level out.

Any thoughts or crystal ball guess? I just hate seeing him so high so consistently.
 
Unfortunately not many thoughts...I suppose give it a week or so to see how he settles.

Like I mentioned I'd like to try getting off the sliding scale, but let's see.l how this scale does first.
 
FrostD said:
Ok. I keep wanting to get off this sliding scale, but doesn't necessarily look like he'll cooperate...

You could try baselining at 0.5U any time over 200 for a week or so and see how he does on a stable dose. Then below that, 0.25U in the 150-199 range.

Otherwise, I think
0.25U if 150-199, 0.5U if 200-299, 0.75U if 300+.
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So far, so good, I guess. No real surprises for me. I did like his 176 this afternoon though.
 
FrostD said:
Unfortunately not many thoughts...I suppose give it a week or so to see how he settles.

Like I mentioned I'd like to try getting off the sliding scale, but let's see.l how this scale does first.
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So far everything seems to be going about as expected. He doesn't seem as bouncy, but he kinda does what he does. I wish we could just stay in the high blues....lol

Hope your week has been great so far. Ours has been cooler and going well.
 
Definitely looks better! I'm going to guess this is as about as good as it'll get though on ProZinc given your schedule. The Lantus option is always out there as well.

It has been quite the week in FD-land...and it's only Tuesday. FDMB has an associated Facebook group that I try to help out with and it's basically the Wild West over there. But yes glad for the cooler weather here too! Though that does mean snow is eventually on its way...
 
FrostD said:
Definitely looks better! I'm going to guess this is as about as good as it'll get though on ProZinc given your schedule. The Lantus option is always out there as well.

It has been quite the week in FD-land...and it's only Tuesday. FDMB has an associated Facebook group that I try to help out with and it's basically the Wild West over there. But yes glad for the cooler weather here too! Though that does mean snow is eventually on its way...
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I'm semi-aware of the FDMB FB Page. I'm sure thT you've got your hands full with those folks plus us regulars over here. I think about the Lantus option daily. I'm just so scared that a depot insulin would somehow put him in a bad place going too low and going into hypo in mid-cycle. I guess it's my fear of change and the unknown combined with my Vets reluctance to switch also. I need to educate myself on it better, I guess.

I just dream of Spike getting into the mid and upper blues and cruising there regularly without his bouncing......which, seems to have mellowed out some since we started this new dosing. I'm trying to keep it on the 0.50u line either fat, skinny, or on the mark.

Thank you and bless you for all of the heavy lifting that you do on here and for caring about Spike and i.
 
I just went through some spreadsheets trying to see if there was a cat on ProZinc that switched to Lantus, that was similar to Spike. Unfortunately there aren't any that are fair comparisons, and the one that was seems to have pulled the spreadsheet after going into remission.

So in my experience it's sort of the opposite problem? Even after all these years I *still* mentally project Vetsulin/ProZinc action onto a Lantus cat. Lantus is far more gentle and consistent, but it's hard to shake the ProZinc trend when making decisions.

It does take some time to settle into Lantus, we say give it 3-6 months to really even out. More than likely you'd see somewhat similar patterns , just tamped down a bit. But Lantus doesn't really work with a sliding scale, so they'd help you find a dose consistently shootable.
 
FrostD said:
I just went through some spreadsheets trying to see if there was a cat on ProZinc that switched to Lantus, that was similar to Spike. Unfortunately there aren't any that are fair comparisons, and the one that was seems to have pulled the spreadsheet after going into remission.

So in my experience it's sort of the opposite problem? Even after all these years I *still* mentally project Vetsulin/ProZinc action onto a Lantus cat. Lantus is far more gentle and consistent, but it's hard to shake the ProZinc trend when making decisions.

It does take some time to settle into Lantus, we say give it 3-6 months to really even out. More than likely you'd see somewhat similar patterns , just tamped down a bit. But Lantus doesn't really work with a sliding scale, so they'd help you find a dose consistently shootable.
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I was hoping that by now he would have leveled out. And he has gotten more stable, but all those reds and high yellows drive me nuts. Just wanna get him low and keep him low...lol

The more you can explain Lantus on a spike-like cat, the more I'll understand. The Vet is still against it, but at least admits that she doesn't know much about diabetic cats and that I'm the first patient parent she's seen that keeps a spreadsheet on a cat...lol said y'all seem to know more about this specialty...lol

He is still a happy, laid back kitty always begging for temptation treats, but I've gotten diligent about keeping the dry barn kitty food out of his grasp. He cuddles with me at nite and wants in and out the door every time he sees me go near it. He goes back to the vet in early February unless something happens.

Keeping him close to the 0.50u mark seems to be a good thing and lessening the bouncing. A great call by you, I feel.
 
Managed to find the spreadsheet - Wolvi is most similar (I believe you want the 2021 tab and early 2022, then the Lantus switch was earlier this year)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/100Ds8kRzVasuyyhQ1oqx6-Xx_wA_8LZINb4Kb4NUpoU/htmlview

He was actually a little more extreme than Spike, and you can see after the Lantus switch he settled down very nicely.


Cleo is the other one I mentioned. She's taking a little longer to settle down, but still much better than ProZinc
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BIQ1adzsrn9UAomiSbqc0fullX1K9BK1MqNqSNjYVRk/edit?usp=sharing

Keep in mind both those caregivers follow(ed) more aggressive dosing methods, hence the lower numbers you see. You would be following the more conservative one with reductions at 90.
 
FrostD said:
Managed to find the spreadsheet - Wolvi is most similar (I believe you want the 2021 tab and early 2022, then the Lantus switch was earlier this year)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/100Ds8kRzVasuyyhQ1oqx6-Xx_wA_8LZINb4Kb4NUpoU/htmlview

He was actually a little more extreme than Spike, and you can see after the Lantus switch he settled down very nicely.


Cleo is the other one I mentioned. She's taking a little longer to settle down, but still much better than ProZinc
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BIQ1adzsrn9UAomiSbqc0fullX1K9BK1MqNqSNjYVRk/edit?usp=sharing

Keep in mind both those caregivers follow(ed) more aggressive dosing methods, hence the lower numbers you see. You would be following the more conservative one with reductions at 90.
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Thank you. I'll read over these and mull it over during the weekend.

So far, Spikes doing alright and there haven't been any surprises with him.
 
Hiwdy @FrostD I'm just checking in with ya with some updated numbers. All seems about regular for Spike and all is well. I'd love to see him a little lower than he's been running.

Hope y'all are having a great weekend.
 
Steady as he goes I guess! I'm not seeing a whole lot you can do...you can try an increase again but I suspect it'll go the same way as last time lol
 
I'm thinking the same...so I guess it's just 0.50u skinny when low side and 0.50u fat when high 200's and 0.75u skinny when above 300. Seems to be kinda a holding pattern but not really getting him into the blues much. Just took a +9@298....uuuugh!!! I wanted to see like 173ish.
 
FrostD said:
Wrong direction spike....
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The night before was what I think was my first FUR SHOT. Coupled with him POSSIBLY getting a bite of the dry I brought inside that nite also. Naturally, I spanked myself for letting both happen. Hopefully, we are getting back on track today. He moved during the shot and I felt wetness on his fur afterwards. First time for everything.
 
@FrostD it looks like Spike may be getting back to his normal 200's after that fun shot the other night. All seems ok, I guess. I'd luv to see him get into the blues again soon though.

Hope your weekend has been going great. Mine is ok.
 
@FrostD he was at about 276 @PMPS+4 last night and shot up to 488 this morning. This is getting scary. He seems fine, but I've noticed more time at the water bowl this weekend.
 
FrostD said:
Hmm. Might be some glucose toxicity setting in, I'd consider an increase across the board..
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I was wondering how that (glucose toxicity) might work. I'll update a couple of fields on SS when k get back home this afternoon. I hope for the best for Spike. He's still just a seemingly happy kitty who's always begging for contraband treats...lol
 
FrostD said:
Glad all is well though! Hopefully an increase will nudge him down a bit.
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I've been making them FAT where I've notated as such. I don't know if I'm thinking correctly or my logic is backwards on that.

Checked for ketones yesterday afternoon as he had vomited at PMPS+3 night before last and he seemed awfully lazy. Ketones were NEGATIVE and I'm guessing they are all lazy and glad to be indoors during this cold snap...
 
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Too much pink and yellow...I think he needs more than just a fat, but he always tends to be dramatic when we do that. Up to you!

But yes crappy here too, we had rain, snow, and thunderstorms all in the span of a few hours.
 
Lee Renfro said:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/spike-9-13-amps-365-pmps-442-508-0-8u-given.266371/

@FrostD , I'll take a Couple of readings tonight so you can see what Spike is doing. I just see all of the reds and can't help but think that I need to buy a new bottle of insulin tomorrow while I'm off work and the Vet is open in the AM. The bottle has been used for 6 months and 14 days as of today.

What are your thoughts on him and his numbers on the SS???

Yay! I'm actually off all weekend.
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Wait.... You said the bottle has been used for 6 months and 14 days?? Once you start using Prozinc it is only good for 60 days after the first puncture. That is what is written on the box take a look.
upload_2022-10-25_5-27-32.png
By the looks of your spreadsheet that says he was diagnosed just in March of this year so if that is when you started using Prozinc that bottle should have been replaced in May of this year.
 

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Shelly_F said:
Wait.... You said the bottle has been used for 6 months and 14 days?? Once you start using Prozinc it is only good for 60 days after the first puncture. That is what is written on the box take a look. View attachment 65564 By the looks of your spreadsheet that says he was diagnosed just in March of this year so if that is when you started using Prozinc that bottle should have been replaced in May of this year.
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Most of the time you are able to use it much longer, we say 6 months is about the max cutoff though. If it goes bad, it would either start to look funny or the BG tests would show it's losing efficacy.
 
FrostD said:
Most of the time you are able to use it much longer, we say 6 months is about the max cutoff though. If it goes bad, it would either start to look funny or the BG tests would show it's losing efficacy.
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Wow since this is an FDA approved insulin for cats and dogs you would think the instructions would say that you can use it longer than 60 days.
 
Shelly_F said:
Wow since this is an FDA approved insulin for cats and dogs you would think the instructions would say that you can use it longer than 60 days.
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I suspect they did some sort of study to come up with that number...just anecdotally here they seem to last quite a bit longer.
 
FrostD said:
I suspect they did some sort of study to come up with that number...just anecdotally here they seem to last quite a bit longer.
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My Vet said that the bottle was still fine IF it hasn't been contaminated or anything growing in the insulin.

With the above being said, he IS CLIMBING UP yesterday and was at 512 tonight. I gave him a super-fat dose of nearly 0.90u tonight. He possibly could have got into contraband, but I've been being careful of that lately. I'm more than a little worried as he is in the black right now and he usually doesn't go there. Your thoughts @FrostD ?????
 
Maybe a bounce from the night before? I don't think there's much you can do with dose at the moment without knowing how low he's actually going with each dose in the scale.
 
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