Sophie and I are new members

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spopar

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Hi everyone,

Our pastel tortie, Sophie, was diagnosed with diabetes in June after we found blood in her urine and she had a sudden and severe case of impacted anal glands. She is now on 5 units of Prozinc twice a day. In addition, while working with the vet to resolve the urinary tract infection, help her anal glands, and regulate her glucose, she tested positive for hyperthyroidism. She has recently been upped to 2.5 mg Menthimazole twice a day. We put her on a Natures Variety Instinct raw diet after reading several excellent articles on the subject and also leave out Royal Canin Diabetic DS44 dry food for her to munch on between meals. The issue with her anal glands resolved after we began giving her a teaspoon of pureed organic pumpkin with each meal.

During October, Sophie was medically boarded with our vet and during this time she upped her Prozinc to 6 units twice a day. We did a home glucose curve on her 2 weeks later and she bottomed out at 41. We immediately reduced her insulin to the current 5 units 2Xs per day, which is where we are now.

Yesterday the vet suggested that we change Sophie's diet to Hill's YD T....saying that endocrinologists feel this may cure the hyperthyroidism and thereby improve her insulin response. I have already checked several threads on the subject but am still ambivalent. Also, I am wondering if her Menthimazole dosage may be too high...she seems more lethargic than usual...perhaps depressed.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thank you!
 
First thing I checked was the carb content on all the foods you listed.

Royal Canin DS 44 - 24% carbs
Nature's Variety Raw Instinct 7% carbs

Hill's YD - could not find it on any of binky's charts... is it canned or dry? The lowest Hill's canned is 13% carbs (every letter of the alphabet on the chart except "Y"!). The lowest dry Hill's is m/d at 13% carbs. All other varieties of dry are lots higher.

I know that a hyperT kitty requires a lot more consideration than one that is "just a diabetic", and I don't know the specific nutritional needs for a hyperT. But, since Sophie is diabetic, is appears that her carb intake is too high. Normally (and again, don't know how possible it is to go real low-carb with a hT kitty), we recommend the lowest carb content possible, for sure under 10%, and lower than 7% if possible.
Carbs and diabetes are like oil and water. Don't mix at all. Unless she absolutely requires the RC dry food, just eliminating that from her menu will lower her BG, and enable you to lower her insulin dose as well.

I am hoping some other folks dealing with hT kitties stop by and let you know what they think.

Welcome to FDMB!

Carl
 
Thank you Hope. That was an "eye-opener" for me!
Yet another "bookmark" in my ever-growing list. And another vet voice to listen to, with a ton of useful and good information on the web.

Carl
 
Carl and Hope,

I did read both links Hope mentions and therefore my concerns re my vets recommendation on changing Sophie's diet. Carl, Hope had the right name for the new diet:Prescription Diet y/d Feline Thyroid Health. My apologies for getting it wrong, but it is by Hill and I'm not seeing anything good about the Hill products.

Carl, my husband and I are going to try removing the (again) vet recommended dry Diabetes44 by Royal Canine to see if it helps with her numbers...or more importantly with her well being. Her numbers have settled into a range between 140 and 260. I don't know from anyone for sure, but it seems to be a vast improvement over the large swings of the summer. Her back legs seem to be getting weaker. She has been experiencing some neuropathy and doesn't walk more than necessary. When she does move around, she stops frequently. Mostly sleeps between the room with the litter box and the room with her food so she can move in either direction.

I still wonder about what we can do holistically about the thyroid. Or should we consider radioactive iodine treatment?
 
OK, you've said that you are able to hometest Sophie's BG, which is great news.

One work of caution when removing the dry food. Because it is so high in carbs, it has inflated her BG numbers, especially over time. When you remove that, you could see a large (100+ points) drop in her BG, which is awesome! BUT, with that 5u dose of insulin per shot, all of a sudden that might be too much.
So, wean her off of the dry, and keep a close eye on your test numbers. You want to catch the drop in BG before a shot, not notice it after the insulin is "in". It's easy to reduce and shoot less, but once the insulin is in, you can't get it back out.

The y/d is not on the list, and I am sure it is because it is a brand new product according to the info that Hope linked us to. So no surprise there. I didn't realize that till I did the reading.


Numbers between 140 and 260? A lot of people here would be tickled pink by getting those numbers! They are not terrible, and not a wide swing, like you said.
When was the last time the vet ran a blood panel on Sophie? If you can get a copy of the results, there might be a number or two on there that makes it more obvious as to why she seems to be getting weaker. For instance, low potassium can cause muscle weakness. For that matter, HyperT can cause muscle wasting too. See if you can get some specific data out of her vet file maybe?
Carl
 
Thank you, Carl!

Vet just called to say she hadn't been able to get up with the Hill consultant (we had asked that she check on the diets effect on diabetic cats!). While she was on the phone, I asked about the thyroid meds and whether they could be causing lethargy, depression, diarrhea (all of which we are seeing today). She said, indeed it is possible and that if she doesn't get better we should come in for a cvc (?) panel (I assume that is the blood work that costs sooooo much). Didn't get into a debate with her about the Hill diet, but am very appreciative about your "weaning" suggestion. Tonight we will give her a larger dose of her raw diet, pick up the dry food for an hour or so, an then check her BG level before we do insulin. Will follow a similar pattern in the morning and continue to work into this slowly with constant monitoring.

Still looking for feedback on radioactive iodine, if anyone has any.....
 
oh, oh, oh,
one thing about the routine at dinnertime. (or breakfast time)

You want to do things in this order, always -
Make sure she hasn't had food for the 2 hour period before test and shoot time, both in the morning and the evening.

Then, test her BG. It will be non-food boosted, which is most accurate.
After testing, feed her, and make sure she eats well.
THEN shoot her with the insulin, assuming she's eaten. You don't want to shoot on an empty tummy if you can avoid doing so.

You don't want food in her system messing up the test number, and you don't want insulin going in unless there is food already in there.
 
Hyper-T can also affect the heart. I would check the potassium level, her blood pressure and if possible, get a cardiologist to look at her heart. Just makes me wonder when you said she doesn't walk far before lying down again.
 
Hi friends,

An update on Sophie:

Since we last talked we have transitioned Sophie to a high protein raw diet from Natures Variety. We've worked with Venison - reject, chicken/turkey - reject, beef - success! We continue to include organic pumpkin puree for her anal glands. Her BG has gone down, had actually stabilize in the low to mid 100's, but is back to fluctuating between 60 at her low and 250 at her high. We had a T4 test run today since she also has hyperthyroidism. We occasionally give her Royal Canine Diabetic dry food when she seems very, very hungry; but are thinking that we will curtail that all together because of it's carb level. Today's vet visit shows that when this all started in July she weighed 12.4 lbs...she remained around that range through early October when she gained a pound. Since October (on high protein diet) she has gained another pound and is at 14.6 lbs. We have been able to reduce her insulin from a high of 6 units twice a day in October, to 3 units twice a day right now.

My concern is the weight gain, and the BG fluctuation. Hopefully the T4 will give us some clues. Her potassium is great as are her other labs.

A side note: during this period our other cat, Dooley, has been diagnosed as going in to renal failure. His behavior and clinical signs are good, just the labs are creeping up. Today I picked up a renal diet for him (dry Royal Canine LP) at vets recommendation. Will need to definitely keep it away from Sophie since it is high carb low protein. Dooley had grown to like the high protein raw food. We are not going to deprive him of it at his age (15) but would like to keep him as healthy as we can.

Any suggestions or insight are always appreciated!
 
Glad things are looking up! As far as the Renal disease, you might start a new topic and ask for specific advice. I know there is a change in thinking on diet. Here is a thread with some great resources:

CRF sites
 
Things were really looking up, until today.... Sophie hasn't eaten anything. Won't even look at food that we bring to her. No water either. I am worried. BG has not been terribly off the chart ... 250 this morning; 214 at noon. I'm worried. Hope this is just a blip on the screen. Will take her to vet in morning if she hasn't bounced back.......
 
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