SOOO Confused, HELP!!!!!

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My Clyde has been on Humulin N insulin for about 2 months now. He is on an all wet diet[Fancy feast classic's] he has lost about 2 lbs in those 2 months. He weighs 18 lbs. His BG numbers have been bouncing up & down. He gets tested at our vet about every 2 weeks. I'll take him in at the 6 hour window for testing. His appetite is crazy, he wants to eat everything. He is fed 6oz of wet food per day[3 oz in the morning, 12hrs later, 3 more oz]. Is the Humulin N not helping? I've read on this site how Lantus is much better Insulin for cats. My Vet swears by the Humulin N. I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. Switch to Lantus? My Vet said he'd give me the scrip for it if I want to switch. Clyde is on 4units twice a day on Humulin N. C an anyone reach out to me & give me some sound advice. I hear the Lantus is very expensive.
 
Welcome!

I would definitely switch to Lantus. While Humulin N works well in dogs, it does not work very well in cats. Lantus is a wonderful insulin that has a very high remission rate for cats and in my opinion is much safer.

It is a bit more expensive, but you can spread the cost out by getting a prescription for a pack of the pens instead of the vial. If handled correctly, the Lantus usually lasts much longer than its 28 day guarantee, and a pack of 5 pens (about $230-$250 in the US) will last you at least 6 months, but more likely a year. Some people also order it from Canada where it is much cheaper.

However, you can help defray the cost of the insulin by testing Clyde yourself at home. Home testing is far safer and more accurate than taking your cat to the vet, and it is much cheaper. You can use any human glucometer--Walmart's Relion Micro is really inexpensive and takes a very small sample of blood. Daily testing is only safe way to administer insulin to a cat, and it allows you to practice tighter control over your cat's blood sugar. Plus, testing at home means you no longer need to pay for testing at the vet.

We have tons of tips and tricks here to help with home testing if you want to get started right away. It seems hard at first, but with enough treats nearly every cat will come around and tolerate the testing without a problem after a little while. With Lantus, you want to get at least three tests in a day--before each shot, and then another test approximately halfway through a cycle.
 
Hi guys and welcome to the board!

You'll find a ton of helpful information around here, so feel free to check out the whole site ..

We used lantus with mocha, so I have no experience with your insulin .. with mocha, we used the 5 pack of pens .. it comes with 5 pens, and each pen lasted us roughly a month .. We ordered it online (need a vet's script for it) And I think it was $110.00 shipped .. so divided by 5 months, it was actually kinda cheap .. just more up front at once ..

I know others are going to be by soon to help answer your questions, I just wanted to stop in and welcome you!
 
Welcome to you and Clyde,

As others have suggested, one of the best things you can do for Clyde is to test him at home. We use human glucometers and test our kitties' ears before each shot (to make sure it is safe to give the amount we are planning) and midcycle (so we can see how the insulin is working). Here is a video that shows how it is done: Video for hometesting We have taught hundreds of people how to do it over the internet and would be happy to teach you.

Humulin is a more difficult insulin to regulate with, as it is shorter lasting and tends to send the cat's numbers down early in the cycle. It can be done, but hometesting would make it a better possibility. The problem with having your vet do the testing is (besides the expense) that many kitties are stressed at the vet (strange noises, smells and sounds) and stress raises bg levels. So a number gotten at the vet can be artificially high once the cat gets home and relaxes. Then the dosage based on that number can be too high.

If you would like to know more about hometesting, just ask. It has made a difference in the lives of many cats on this site and helped them into regulation and remission.
 
Welcome Extra sweet Clyde and your Bean too!

Ah Humulin N - we just switched from that to Lantus a little over 2 weeks ago. KT was diagnosed in June, 2011. My vet only knew Humulin N also so we did our best trying to use it. It was a roller coaster ride to say the least. We're still trying to get KT regulated on Lantus but it's getting closer now.

I've got a comment about the vet testing and Humulin N. From KT'S experience only, Humulin N caused fairly fast drops and then shot back up but this varied in time the whole time we were using it. Some days he'd be at his lowest after 3 hours, other days it was 5 hours but it couldn't hold him over about 7 hours per injection. Shooting twice a day, this left 10 hours of the day that insulin wasn't working. Our vet had us come in 4 hours after FASTING shot - but I've since learned insulin must be given with food. That was the first issue. Coming in weekly at 4 hours or even 6 hours to test, there's no way to be sure that the Humulin N is working correctly at that time on that day. We did that first too...SO not the way to do it.

Lantus - it works for 12 hours and stops the roller coaster ride. That ride ain't fun for Clyde. Our numbers have stayed in the 300's but notice how steady they are as opposed to those WAY ups and WAY downs with the N. It's more strict in the injection times but it works SO much better.

Below my signature you'll see a link to KT's spreadsheet. The first almost month is part of our Humulin N walk - you'll see the difference in the Lantus there also. Keep in mind that we started low with the Lantus and are working up to the correct dose.

IMHO, Home testing is the key to controlling this. It isn't nearly as bad as the imagined horror before you jump in. KT purrs thru them most of the time...we can do test and injection from start to finish in less than 2 minutes now.

Again, welcome to the Dance!
 
Wow, you folks are awesome. I talked to our vet about doing the home testing. He's concerned about Clyde developing infections, especially if drawing from his paw pads. I have paid only $10 for all my testing visits, he's been really good with Clydey. His numbers ranged from 266/305/425/ & our last visit was back down to 266 again[was going every 2 weeks]. Can I get a website or two were I can order Lantus? I called my local Sam's club, they are about the cheapest, $214 for the 5 pens. She says it should probably last me the year.
About Clyde's "always hungry" issue, according to my vet, Clyde shouldn't be having this issue, being on 4 units of Humulin N twice a day. Has anyone had this issue with their kitty? I asked him maybe this insulin[N] is not for him, he just stated he always had good results with it. I'm going to get the scrip for Lantus, it's just a matter where I can find it at an affordable price.
Again, thanks so much for the advice.
 
Ears...not pads. No it does NOT tear up their ears nor, with normal care and cleanliness, will it get infected. Pads are a different story altho' there ARE some that do it. Their ears really DO learn to bleed easier too making it even easier. KT purrs thru the whole thing.

Can't help with place to order but someone will be along shortly with links. DCIN was kind enough to provide us with Lantus or we would still be having to use Humulin N.
 
When a cat is unregulated on insulin, their body is literally starving .. once the insulin levels out his sugar readings, the food cravings should definitely calm down .. Right now his body is using all his food and wanting more .. It's going to get better for you and for Clyde, you just have to hang in there ..

I know 10.00 seems cheap enough for sugar readings at the vets, but you have to understand that a cat can easily stress out on the way to the vets and at the vets .. stress can raise a cat's sugar readings by 100 points or more .. that is why home testing is so important .. You can test in the comfort of your own home, with all his favorite toys and blankets around .. it will be a much calmer environment, and you'll get a more accurate reading ..

I think you should check out the website candadrugsonline dot com .. I believe that is where we ordered from ..

Mocha was on lantus for 20 months before becoming a diet controlled diabetic .. Not saying it's a miracle drug, but it worked for us ...
 
If you post your city/state there may even be members on here that would be more then willing to come and show you how to home test .. I had a fellow board member come from over an hour away to show us when mocha was diagnosed ...
 
Bandit never once had an infection from home testing in 2 years, and before he went to remission I did it multiple times a day. I just dabbed a tiny bit of neosporin ointment on his ear after each test.
 
We live in Freehold, NJ. So if there is anyone in the area to walk me thru the home testing, that would be great! With the Lantus, I've read the shelf life is only 28 days, Now Clyde would be only getting 4 units per day. At the end of that 28 days, I'm going to have alot of that insulin left over. Can it be used past the 28 days? My God, that's alot of waste if I can't use it, never mind the hit in the wallet each month.
 
goalieherk said:
We live in Freehold, NJ. So if there is anyone in the area to walk me thru the home testing, that would be great! With the Lantus, I've read the shelf life is only 28 days, Now Clyde would be only getting 4 units per day. At the end of that 28 days, I'm going to have alot of that insulin left over. Can it be used past the 28 days? My God, that's alot of waste if I can't use it, never mind the hit in the wallet each month.

If it's handled properly, it can last much longer than 28 days. That means keeping it refrigerated (but not someplace where it will freeze or get jostled around, e.g. the door), handling it very gently (no shaking or rolling it), and not shooting insulin from the syringe back into the vial. That last part is the trickiest, but you eventually get the hang of it. In order to prevent air bubbles, depress the syringe all the way so that no air is in it, and then insert it into the pen. Slowly draw insulin into the syringe, drawing more than you actually need. If there are bubbles (and with me there usually are, you gently tap or flick them to the top of the syringe, under the needle, and then slowly release the excess insulin into the air (I do it over a paper towel) until you reach the correct dose. If the bubble is under the needle, it should be released with the excess insulin (I say should because sometimes it takes me more than one try).

When I wasn't handling the insulin properly, it lasted about 35-45 days. Once I took care of it better, it lasted about 2-3 months (or until the pen was gone). Don't worry about wasting insulin. If you get the pens and handle them right you'll have a year or more's worth of insulin.

Most cats on a low carb, canned diet do not need much more than 1 u of insulin, so you can also expect that unless Clyde has a secondary medical condition going on, that he likely won't need 4u of Lantus when you make the switch.
 
Thanks Cindy, that would be great if I could get some help. My wife is freaking out at the moment. We can see Clyde is not regulated. My next move will be ordering the Lantus. My vet stated he wants to start him off with 2 units twice daily.
 
Well guys, I went out & bought all the supplies for home monitoring. Yesterday morning I had only given Clyde 2 units instead of his 4, because it seemed to us that Clydey wasn't improving. We thought maybe, from reading Dr.Piersons article about the high protein diet, maybe Clyde was getting to much Insulin. When I got home from work,[been 12hrs since his last shot] I tried to corral him to test his BG. But he was unmanageable cuz he wanted to eat. After he ate his wet food, about an hour later, I was able to get a sample from his ear. His reading was 480. I have ordered the Lantus from Northwest Pharmacy up in Canada. I'm gonna continue giving him his 4 units, & try to test him before dinner today. Thoughts anyone?
 
Richie said:
Well guys, I went out & bought all the supplies for home monitoring. Yesterday morning I had only given Clyde 2 units instead of his 4, because it seemed to us that Clydey wasn't improving. We thought maybe, from reading Dr.Piersons article about the high protein diet, maybe Clyde was getting to much Insulin. When I got home from work,[been 12hrs since his last shot] I tried to corral him to test his BG. But he was unmanageable cuz he wanted to eat. After he ate his wet food, about an hour later, I was able to get a sample from his ear. His reading was 480. I have ordered the Lantus from Northwest Pharmacy up in Canada. I'm gonna continue giving him his 4 units, & try to test him before dinner today. Thoughts anyone?


WAY TO GO CLYDE AND RICHIE! Got that testing already started! We just got our first 100's numbers yesterday with the Lantus!
 
So it took less then a month on Lantus to bring those numbers down? Congratulations! I pray we get the same results. I'm stressing because it takes so long to get the meds from Canada. What dose do you give your kitty?
 
Well, the testing isn't going very well. I think I may back off a bit till I get him on the Lantus. Clyde just see's the test kit & runs. This is not easy.
 
Richie said:
Well, the testing isn't going very well. I think I may back off a bit till I get him on the Lantus. Clyde just see's the test kit & runs. This is not easy.

Richie - treats! and MORE treats! Try some of the freeze dried treats from dog treat section of pet store. Try flaked tuna, chicken pieces, something that he only gets at test time. DON'T GIVE UP!

I can identify with your waiting until you get the Lantus - I'm glad I didn't stop testing as I now have a lot more info on how the Humulin N worked for him. May not help you but may help someone else down the road!

BIG HUGS! You both will learn the dance steps....
 
Try testing Clyde when he's actually eating his meal. Usually, they're so hungry they don't even lift their head up to notice what you're doing. For treats, you can give him freeze dried chicken breast or salmon (found at pet stores), fresh chicken breast cut into small pieces (raw or just nuke it for about ten seconds), or canned tuna. Make sure you go easy on the treats, though, cuz they do have calories in them, though the foods I've mentioned are no-carb foods. Clyde will get used to the testing. Champ actually will purr his way through it with no treats in sight!!! When he sees the meter, he just lies down and lets me do the test (which only takes about 5 seconds from start to finish these days). I usually give him a piece of freeze dried salmon afterward as a thank you!!
 
OK, treats it is. This Lantus can't come fast enough. I can see he is drinking alot more now. He's already on 4 units twice daily. I had spoke w/ our vet & he wants to do more blood testing. He feels there may be other problems, but I'm having some doubt about his decisions. It seems to go the opposite of what Dr. Pierson has been stateing in her articles. She had answered my e-mail in the very beginning, wanting me to immediately get Clyde off the Glyberide pills. I kinda mentioned to my vet about my research on this site as well as Dr.Piersons articles, & his reply was he's never had any problems w/Glyberide. He says the same thing about Humulin N. Which is beginning to make me wonder. I think it may be time for a second opinion. There is a feline only vet about a half hour away my friend uses so......What do you guys think? I'm thinking getting Clyde on the Lantus first, waiting a week, & seeing how he reacts. Then take him for the second opinion. I don't want to put his life at risk waiting for this Lantus tho.
 
I think a second opinion is exactly what is needed. The vet you're seeing now is obviously behind the times when it comes to his knowledge of feline diabetes. Unfortunately, all vets are taught very little, but his knowledge just seems antiquated. There's really no need to wait for the Lantus in order to see the new vet. Since Lantus is a shed type insulin, you're probably not going to see an amazing reaction right away...it will be a slow and steady improvement. Once you do get the Lantus, make sure you head over to the Lantus part of this message board so you can read all the stickies about how to handle and store the insulin, what starting dose to go with, how to increase the dose and when, etc. There are a LOT of people over there with years of experience to guide you.
 
Thanks Patty. This website is a God send. Bless everyone that has taken the time to respond to my posts. Will update Clydeys condition in the near future. I'm trying to get his pic up but having some issues.
 
I am new at all this too and still don't like pricking the ears for blood. My cat was fussing about it as I was too slow.

I find I am a tad bit better with the ears lately as I got a flashlight and put the light through the ear so that I could study where the veins are (to avoid them) and where on the rim of the ear gives me a bit more space. With the light I can also avoid spots that seemed to be inflamed from recent pokes.

I DON'T do this while I am trying to use the lancet . I just studied her ears with the light while stroking her and she was relaxing. It did help me figure out where I was going to test so that I could do it quickly and it showed me how little room I have along the rim. Once you know what you are doing you can forego all this but it is helping me now.

The other thing that I really like is a medium size leather thimble from the any sewing/fabric store. Fits on my index finger - I kept poking myself with a folded kleenex , etc. now I never do THE HARD PLASTIC THIMBLES DONT WORK WELL but the leather one is great. Fits tight on the finger and stays put.

Hope you don't mind if I ask a question on your thread that pertains to this? Hopefully someone in group can answer.

Can you test on the very tip of the ear on the interior side of the vein? Not on the rim side but the other side. Still on the very tip of the ear but just slightly to the left of the vein. That would be easier than the narrow rim.

Good luck with Clyde. from Elaine and Pinky
 
I just want to bump this back up to the top in case you didn't see my PM to you!!.

Richie - please note, just because you are on your current insulin at 4 units DOES NOT MEAN YOU WILL START LANTUS AT THAT SAME DOSE.....unless Clyde weights 50 lbs (I'm exaggerating a bit...) you wouldn't!

Check out the message I sent so you can post accordingly over on Lantus and the wise ones over there can guide you on how to begin with this new insulin safely and effectively!
 
Thanks Jess, my Vet advised 2 units twice a day. I'm still on the fence about taking Clyde to another Vet for a second opinion. I don't want to put him thru anymore stress. Poor Lil dude shakes in his carrier. I may look into someone who comes to the home.
 
Hi Richie, and, of course, you too, sweet Clyde,

When Giz and I bounced on The Board, we were grasped and held and hugged. Giz danced with me another four years. She was 18 when she decided her work here was done. Diabetes didn't take her. She was like 90 and simply decided she was done. I will always miss dancing with Giz...

She was on increasing doses of N. She was tested every Sunday at the ER vet's at +6.

It took me one month and 28 days to take control. It took me one month and 28 days to home test. This is why Giz danced for four more years.

I am not a vet basher, nor will I ever be. I have taught two vets about the distance we will go. I have taught two vets volumes about feline diabetes...

When you get Lantus from Canada, please consider starting Clyde at 1.0 unit. Please understand this is a completely different, and much more cat-friendly insulin. Please understand and prepare yourself for receiving a box that pretty much looks like you're receiving a human organ. But, inside will be Lantus.

I'm in NJ too. It's just that my car probably can't get to Freehold...



The one thing I learned dancing with Giz was faith. And, apparently Giz agreed. She sent me Nikki...

Welcome to the place you never, ever wanted to be; but, will be blessed for having found.

Love and as many encouraging hugs as you and Clyde can handle,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, forever dancing in my heart...
 
Hi Deb, so you recommend starting 1unit twice daily? My vet wanted 2units twice daily. So I'll go with your recommendation. How long should I stay w/ the 1 unit? I still haven't got the home testing down pat yet. When I come home around 4:30, Clydey is really really ready to eat, as well as his brother & sister. I've tried while he started eating but he runs away. I'll keep trying, maybe over the next weekend settling in & really trying to get him to cooperate. Checking him every 2 hrs, is that a little extreme? His ears will look like chopmeat. How should I start out as far as how many times per day? Right now he's on the Humulin N, 4 units twice daily. I can see he's not regulated cuz he's beginning to drink alot again. I afraid to increase the Humulin dose, my vet wants to do more bloodwork. But I want to see how he does w/ the Lantus before I take him back to the vet. He seems fine, purring & chasing his sister around so....... your thoughts, oh, the Lantus has not arrived yet.
 
Agree with Deb - one unit is a good starting dose. Be sure to read up on how Lantus works. The Lantus forum has great info for you. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581

One method that works for some "difficult cats" is the kitty burrito. We set down a towel on the couch next to the arm and set Oliver on top. Then we wrapped him up until only his head was showing. I could lightly press him into the arm and he couldn't move away while I tested. After a couple weeks, we no longer had to burrito him but it helped at first. And then, of course, THE TREATS!
 
Hi Richie, and, of course, you too, sweet Clyde,

Richie & Clyde said:
Hi Deb, so you recommend starting 1unit twice daily? My vet wanted 2units twice daily. So I'll go with your recommendation. How long should I stay w/ the 1 unit?
I was trained with the Start Low, Go Slow FDMB approach. And, the good people have never once steered me wrong! They also suggest one should give any dose at least a week to "settle." Since Lantus is an entirely different insulin from N, Clyde may need a bit longer for his body to adjust. You'll know for sure by home testing... Well, and looking at the whole Clyde. Is he acting normal for him? Doing the 5 Ps: peeing, pooping, playing, purring, and preening (in a manly way, of course). Clyde stuff...

Richie & Clyde said:
I still haven't got the home testing down pat yet. When I come home around 4:30, Clydey is really really ready to eat, as well as his brother & sister. I've tried while he started eating but he runs away. I'll keep trying, maybe over the next weekend settling in & really trying to get him to cooperate.
Rome wasn't built in a day. Patience, grasshopper... Try low-carb treats for all three when you come home, so you can buy yourself a little time to test Clyde before you actually feed them all dinner. You give the treats to all of them so no one gets jealous... Remember, it's Test, Feed, Shoot, okay?

Richie & Clyde said:
Checking him every 2 hrs, is that a little extreme? His ears will look like chopmeat. How should I start out as far as how many times per day?
Checking every two hours between shots is called a Curve. You do that to find his peak/nadir, when he's at his lowest during a shot cycle. Always test Pre-Shot morning and night, so that's twice a day. In the beginning, since it's such a new insulin, and you'll both be getting used to ear pokes, Pre-Shot tests only will be fine. Pre-Shot tests tell you It's Safe To Shoot. After a few days/nights, try for a +6, meaning test him 6 hours after his shot. This will give you a ball park number as to how he's doing mid-cycle. Peak/Nadir tests (and Curves) tell you his dose is working or needs to be adjusted. But you're not dancing there yet. Although, you could start testing while he's still on N... Just a hint... A humble suggestion... Knowledge is power, Richie. And, if you can master testing Master Clyde while he's on N, you'll have a bit of data to see the difference when he starts the Lantus.

And, no, his ears won't look like chopped meat. Your hands might look a little dinged at first... A little Neosporin can go a long way for both of you...

Richie & Clyde said:
I afraid to increase the Humulin dose, my vet wants to do more bloodwork. But I want to see how he does w/ the Lantus before I take him back to the vet. He seems fine, purring & chasing his sister around so.......
Seems like a good plan! You've got the makings of a great sugar dad, Richie!

Richie & Clyde said:
oh, the Lantus has not arrived yet.
Still?!?! Darn those international shipments... Sigh...

So, start with the treats for the furry chorus of three, and start testing. Be a Nike commercial. Just Do It!

Oh, and one more thing, sugar parents deserve treats, too...

Good luck dancing! And, please keep us posted. We were all newbies once...

Love and encouraging hugs for the entire family as everyone learns to dance,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, forever dancing in my heart...
 
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