Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
You got lots of good data. I have paws crossed for good answers.
Somogyi effect?
- Thread starter Cara and Wynken (GA)
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Cara and Wynken (GA)
Active Member
Thanks! I wrote to my vet FIRST THING this morning to remind her she had promised to consult on this data with the specialist. I think BJ was correct and it is Chen Gilor at OSU. I hope so anyway! Will let you all know when I hear something.
Cara and Wynken (GA)
Active Member
EDID - every day is different
lots ofto you
Carol, I think of you and Murphy often... You have such a battle with his inappetance and not knowing what to shoot. I can't imagine that complexity.
It's confusing enough with cat that reliably Hoovers up his breakfast and dinner!
Yet even with the same amount of the SAME MEAL given twice daily, EDID.
Hugs, my friend!
Cara and Wynken (GA)
Active Member
Carl - Hopefully any bouncing and/or fur shot glucose-skyrocketing have cleared.
I feel like I am doing about 10 things to "even him out" that I never used to do...
Feeding him separately from his sister, feeding him the same food for every meal, weighing his food, injecting only into a shaved patch so I can see the needle stays under the skin, not rubbing the injection site… And the amount of testing has become onerous. Mostly for him!! Hopefully the data will yield some answers.
I'm ready to switch insulins or whatever it takes. EXCEPT I will be gone on a business trip all next week. So we have to keep him safe in on an even keel until then. ( until I get back).
Libby and Lucy
Very Active Member
Hi Cara,
I do have some experience with PZI with Lucy, and a little bit with KK, as well as helping with some Siamese Rescue foster cats with PZI or Prozinc. There are some things that tend to be true with any insulin that might help you here. And I apologize in advance, I know you don't know me but I tend to be long-winded.
Looking at Wynk's SS, I do think late nadir is a possibility. If he has a late nadir, then you'll want to get used to the idea of shooting at a lower number than others might, because he still has so many hours left in the cycle before the insulin kicks in. We have a saying that you're not shooting the number he is at now, but you are shooting the number he will be at hours later when the insulin kicks in. That is true for any insulin but of course you need to know your cat well enough to predict where he will be at onset.
You might want to concentrate your testing on figuring out when his onset and nadir tend to be in a normal, non-bouncing cycle. For now, disregard the cycles when he is just high and flat and focus on the ones that show some movement, and try to spot the patterns in those cycles. You might also want to disregard the ones where he is zooming down fast (more on that below). Base your decisions on the "normal" cycles, then work around the ones that aren't as typical.
Another possibility that I've seen before (again, on any insulin) is that sometimes the cycles when a bounce is clearing out have a lot of downward momentum. If those counterregulatory hormones decide to clear out, the numbers can drop quickly and might drop lower than they otherwise would, no matter what time it is. Someone here once used the analogy of a ball rolling down a hill, getting faster and faster as it drops. If you're just pushing the ball on flat land, it won't go as far or as fast. See how most of your lower blue and green numbers have a super high number just before them? But the more normal cycles don't go anywhere near that low.
I'm not going to give specific dosing advice here, but if he were my cat, here's what I would be thinking. Disregarding the atypically high cycles, and disregarding the atypically low cycles, generally Wynk is not getting much lower than 190 in a normal cycle, no matter what dose you give or where he starts. If that's where you want him, great. If not, what might help him get there? Are his doses enough? What happens when I skip a shot? Is that ok with me? What information do I need to gather on which to base that decision, and what would be needed to keep him safe?
Since I'm talking too much anyway, here's one more thought to put out there for everybody. It's easy to look at what we say are "typical" patterns for an insulin. What actually matters is not what results other people's cats get on an insulin, but what results YOUR cat gets. When KK was on PZI he had an early nadir and his insulin pooped out early. If I got home at +10 and he was already rising, I went ahead and gave his next dose because I knew the old one was done and I didn't need him to keep getting higher. I think I even put a note on his spreadsheet that I wished I could shoot early every day. If I could have, I might have kept him on PZI because it worked well for him. When he switched to Levemir, which is supposed to be extremely long acting, he still had early nadirs and I still sometimes shot early. Wynk is probably the opposite of that. Free yourself from what you think is supposed to happen, and look at what really is happening. It's more work but can bring great results.
I do have some experience with PZI with Lucy, and a little bit with KK, as well as helping with some Siamese Rescue foster cats with PZI or Prozinc. There are some things that tend to be true with any insulin that might help you here. And I apologize in advance, I know you don't know me but I tend to be long-winded.
Looking at Wynk's SS, I do think late nadir is a possibility. If he has a late nadir, then you'll want to get used to the idea of shooting at a lower number than others might, because he still has so many hours left in the cycle before the insulin kicks in. We have a saying that you're not shooting the number he is at now, but you are shooting the number he will be at hours later when the insulin kicks in. That is true for any insulin but of course you need to know your cat well enough to predict where he will be at onset.
You might want to concentrate your testing on figuring out when his onset and nadir tend to be in a normal, non-bouncing cycle. For now, disregard the cycles when he is just high and flat and focus on the ones that show some movement, and try to spot the patterns in those cycles. You might also want to disregard the ones where he is zooming down fast (more on that below). Base your decisions on the "normal" cycles, then work around the ones that aren't as typical.
Another possibility that I've seen before (again, on any insulin) is that sometimes the cycles when a bounce is clearing out have a lot of downward momentum. If those counterregulatory hormones decide to clear out, the numbers can drop quickly and might drop lower than they otherwise would, no matter what time it is. Someone here once used the analogy of a ball rolling down a hill, getting faster and faster as it drops. If you're just pushing the ball on flat land, it won't go as far or as fast. See how most of your lower blue and green numbers have a super high number just before them? But the more normal cycles don't go anywhere near that low.
I'm not going to give specific dosing advice here, but if he were my cat, here's what I would be thinking. Disregarding the atypically high cycles, and disregarding the atypically low cycles, generally Wynk is not getting much lower than 190 in a normal cycle, no matter what dose you give or where he starts. If that's where you want him, great. If not, what might help him get there? Are his doses enough? What happens when I skip a shot? Is that ok with me? What information do I need to gather on which to base that decision, and what would be needed to keep him safe?
Since I'm talking too much anyway, here's one more thought to put out there for everybody. It's easy to look at what we say are "typical" patterns for an insulin. What actually matters is not what results other people's cats get on an insulin, but what results YOUR cat gets. When KK was on PZI he had an early nadir and his insulin pooped out early. If I got home at +10 and he was already rising, I went ahead and gave his next dose because I knew the old one was done and I didn't need him to keep getting higher. I think I even put a note on his spreadsheet that I wished I could shoot early every day. If I could have, I might have kept him on PZI because it worked well for him. When he switched to Levemir, which is supposed to be extremely long acting, he still had early nadirs and I still sometimes shot early. Wynk is probably the opposite of that. Free yourself from what you think is supposed to happen, and look at what really is happening. It's more work but can bring great results.
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C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Guest
Cara,
Time to step back and regroup.
Please don't take this as criticism, but you're trying too hard and driving yourself crazy.
I've said often that we as a caregivers can only control a few facets in treatment of FD.
Amount of insulin given
Timing of shots
Amount of food given
Timing of feedings.
Those 4 are just about all we can control. Sounds like you are doing a good job with all of them.
What we have absolutely no control over is "what the cat does with all that" after they are in the cat.
You can feed the exact same food at the exact same time, in the exact amounts for several days in a row. At the same time you can give the exact same dose down to the molecule, at the exact same times for days in a row.
But you will see different results every single cycle. Seems you should be able to control the numbers when you do things with such precision, doesn't it? But you can't, because every day, all day, Wynk's body is going to process food and insulin differently.
The big thing to keep in mind is "food". No two cans are "equal". A can of FF classics listed as "4%" carbs is going to be different from one can to another. Might be 2%, might be 5%. There's no way for Purina to be that precise with a big huge vat of cat food.
Think of it this way...
You make a big huge pot of chili, with all sorts of good stuff in it. Let's say you look up all the ingredients and find that "chili" is going to be "5%" carbs. Now, fill six bowls of chili, set it out, and you figure everybody at the table is getting a 5% carbs meal. But they aren't. A couple bowls are heavy on the beans, a couple heavy on tomatoes, a couple have lots of meat in them. The carb content of all six bowls is different.
Same thing with cat food. One vat might contain more or less of each ingredient. In theory, it averages out to 4% carbs, but in reality, each vat, and each can, is going to be a bit higher or lower than 4%. Close, but not quite. So while you might weigh servings down to the gram, each serving is not going to be exactly the same in calories, carbs, fats or proteins. Beyond that, what Wynk does with it once the plate is clean is going to change every cycle.
At some point, we just have to step back and observe what happens, and not try to force things that we have little to no control over. Make sense?
Time to step back and regroup.
Please don't take this as criticism, but you're trying too hard and driving yourself crazy.
I've said often that we as a caregivers can only control a few facets in treatment of FD.
Amount of insulin given
Timing of shots
Amount of food given
Timing of feedings.
Those 4 are just about all we can control. Sounds like you are doing a good job with all of them.
What we have absolutely no control over is "what the cat does with all that" after they are in the cat.
You can feed the exact same food at the exact same time, in the exact amounts for several days in a row. At the same time you can give the exact same dose down to the molecule, at the exact same times for days in a row.
But you will see different results every single cycle. Seems you should be able to control the numbers when you do things with such precision, doesn't it? But you can't, because every day, all day, Wynk's body is going to process food and insulin differently.
The big thing to keep in mind is "food". No two cans are "equal". A can of FF classics listed as "4%" carbs is going to be different from one can to another. Might be 2%, might be 5%. There's no way for Purina to be that precise with a big huge vat of cat food.
Think of it this way...
You make a big huge pot of chili, with all sorts of good stuff in it. Let's say you look up all the ingredients and find that "chili" is going to be "5%" carbs. Now, fill six bowls of chili, set it out, and you figure everybody at the table is getting a 5% carbs meal. But they aren't. A couple bowls are heavy on the beans, a couple heavy on tomatoes, a couple have lots of meat in them. The carb content of all six bowls is different.
Same thing with cat food. One vat might contain more or less of each ingredient. In theory, it averages out to 4% carbs, but in reality, each vat, and each can, is going to be a bit higher or lower than 4%. Close, but not quite. So while you might weigh servings down to the gram, each serving is not going to be exactly the same in calories, carbs, fats or proteins. Beyond that, what Wynk does with it once the plate is clean is going to change every cycle.
At some point, we just have to step back and observe what happens, and not try to force things that we have little to no control over. Make sense?
Cara and Wynken (GA)
Active Member
Yes, Carl, all of that absolutely makes perfect sense. And on some level I DO realize that I can't control every single thing.
But there have been so many good suggestions given to me here on this board that I have tried to incorporate all of them to the degree that I can.
Your points are well taken… I tend to be a little bit of a control freak in almost everything that I do.
I've had some training in statistics and reducing variation in business systems. I keep thinking that if I reduce variation in the "system" (Wynken the Darling
Powdered-Sugar Donut!) that something will emerge that will advise me on what that correct dose should be... Some part of me realizes that when I get a better dose... (Oh please!) that there will *still* be variation.
But what I'm seeing now is high glucose and THAT makes me anxious... and anxiety makes me want to control something, anything!
I am ranting a bit, sorry... but overall I just want you to know that I do appreciate what you said. Thank you !
But there have been so many good suggestions given to me here on this board that I have tried to incorporate all of them to the degree that I can.
Your points are well taken… I tend to be a little bit of a control freak in almost everything that I do.
I've had some training in statistics and reducing variation in business systems. I keep thinking that if I reduce variation in the "system" (Wynken the Darling
Powdered-Sugar Donut!) that something will emerge that will advise me on what that correct dose should be... Some part of me realizes that when I get a better dose... (Oh please!) that there will *still* be variation. But what I'm seeing now is high glucose and THAT makes me anxious... and anxiety makes me want to control something, anything!
I am ranting a bit, sorry... but overall I just want you to know that I do appreciate what you said. Thank you !
Cara and Wynken (GA)
Active Member
Libby,
Thank you so much for ALL you wrote. I don't mind you being long-winded - there was a lot to say!
I am VERY glad to read all of your input and it helps me a lot. Wynken IS an individual, and an unusual one at that (although aren't they ALL?). There have been times that I have been advised not to shoot low numbers (like <150) and I have had a HARD time understanding why not... I've wanted to give a dose to at least mitigate the coming glucose flood that I am sure will ensue. Because I KNOW he's rising by 300-350 after he eats. I just KNOW it. I also know he's never had anyting resembling a hypo even with my "blind shooting" of 1.5 to 2 units twice a day for years (before I knew it was good to check the pre-shot value). Now I am not discounting that he COULD hypo... and I feel I am prepared for that with the printed instructions and kit, if it does occur. I feel like you just gave me permission to be a little more aggressive shooting lower preshots, which is what I want to do. Changing times around may not work for me, as my day is regimented by other things... so we are probably pretty well stuck with 0630 and 1830 (give or take 30 min or so). But I WILL start looking at what he does on his "normal" cycles, if I can figure out what those are... he USED to have pretty classic nadits at +6 or +7... then would rise before eating. That was back a year or so ago (and earlier) when I would only do occasional curves for the vet. Now he seems to have late nadirs. Now, too, he has high and flat cycles, AND he can plunge low with a lot of momentum. I will try to weed those out and think more about this, and I may trust my gut a bit more as well... Thanks!!
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
If he continues to have a lower pumps than amps, you could look at dosing 13/11. So give a shot at +13 at night and +11 in the morning. Sometimes that evens out the cycles.....
Cara and Wynken (GA)
Active Member
I may be able to try that, Sue. But he's so used to the every 12 hour thing, that it may not work. Today I had to go out of town for almost 12 hours and was home barely in time to take care of him. The problem with waiting at night… (Like I just did because I had to re-check that he was rising) is that he is so incredibly hungry so he's very antsy, and much less likely to cooperate with me poking his ear. If I delayed an entire extra hour I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to get a check on his glucose before feeding him because he would be insanely jumping down off he testing bench, looking for the plate of food.
Carol & Murphy (GA)
Very Active Member
Hi Cara I did this way back when I was having this issue with Murphy - it really does make a difference, and may really help you to give a higher dose in the evening. What I did was give him a few pieces of freeze dried chicken while I was poking his ear and that seemed to help a lot
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
Do you have an automatic feeder? Could you set it for +11 so he could have a good snack then and maybe not be so hungry at +13?
Cara and Wynken (GA)
Active Member
Sue, I had bought an automatic feeder… I had planned on using it to open halfway between his (current) every 12 hour meals...to give him a little something halfway through the day or night. I thought this would even out his blood sugar.
After I programmed it I let it run on my kitchen counter with nothing in it for a couple days to make sure that it was working as I intended. Then, in order to get him used to it, I put three or four dehydrated meat treats in each slot.
It took him a little bit over 24 hours but the second day I came home to this…
Attachments
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
Oops. Yes, we went through 3 feeders before we found the PetSafe5. We had even duct taped the others and he still got in.
Cara and Wynken (GA)
Active Member
I will try that, Carol. That might've made a difference tonight when I almost couldn't test the second preshot test. He loves those Origen dried meat treats. (See photo above).
Tonight, although he was a little on the low side, I considered what Libby had said a few days ago and followed my instincts to shoot a dose for the value that I knew he would be at in 2 to 3 hours. So he got almost his normal dose. Lower doses in the past have resulted in what looks like"not enough insulin", I *think*...
I will of course check him before bedtime and if he's high (As he almost always is) then next time he might actually get 1.8 then 2u, when he's at a value like ~160 and rising.
I heard back from my vet today, and she said she had not heard back from the doctor in Columbus. She had asked him if he would take a look at the spreadsheet and make a recommendation without seeing my cat. Perhaps he will write back to her tomorrow?
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Cara and Wynken (GA)
Active Member
I will look for that one online tomorrow, Sue, thank you very much! I just finished taking care of my other cats, and checked his blood sugar at +3.5… True to form he was up almost 300 points, even at 1.6u.
Cara and Wynken (GA)
Active Member
Bobbie And Bubba
Very Active Member
Yikes!!!!
Cara and Wynken (GA)
Active Member
@Sue and Oliver (GA) - is this the one you mean? Amazon reviews seem to indicate this one is easy for a determined cat to conquer....
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GEWHNS?keywords=Pet safe 5&qid=1454509016&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
Yes, that's it. The second review showing the cat flipping up the feeder is another feeder. We had lots of trouble with the flip up type - he just learned to flip it up. Some of the reviewers say the cat can just push the bottom tray over to the next slot. Yes, that can be done, but took some effort for me this morning. I guess a really strong determined cat could do it. The thing we like about it is the bottom moves while the top stays still so messing with the top doesn't help them.
You might look at buying it at PetSmart. I have heard they honor the prices from Amazon. If Wynken can open it, then return it?
You might look at buying it at PetSmart. I have heard they honor the prices from Amazon. If Wynken can open it, then return it?
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
Looks like the pattern at pumps is holding. What do you think about 13/11, Cara? You could feed him maybe half his meal at +11, wait the two hours, test and shoot at +13? Would that work? Wonder what the food would do at that part of the cycle? His pattern is to rise and stay up after eating - wonder if that would hold?
Just brainstorming here....
Just brainstorming here....
Cara and Wynken (GA)
Active Member
Hi Sue, I have been waiting for 4 days for the feline diabetes specialist to get back to me. So I'm glad hear your suggestions, as that might be what I go ahead and do if he doesn't return any reply to my veterinarian.
The problem with adjusting my evening is that I usually am walking into the house right at +12. At the most it might be 20 to 30 minutes before. So it would be impossible to feed at +11.
The best I could do would be to just wait until +13 to check and shoot. Otherwise I'd be feeding him about one hour before I checked him and I'm not sure that is advisable… Is it?
The problem with adjusting my evening is that I usually am walking into the house right at +12. At the most it might be 20 to 30 minutes before. So it would be impossible to feed at +11.
The best I could do would be to just wait until +13 to check and shoot. Otherwise I'd be feeding him about one hour before I checked him and I'm not sure that is advisable… Is it?
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
It'd be best to have 2 hours between food and test especially as food seems to impact his levels so much. The pet feeder would come in handy there...
We haven't had anyone try 10/14 that I know of but it might be a possibility too as his pre shots are so different. Then you could give him something to eat at 12 and test/shoot at 14.
My thinking is that you were worried he would drive you crazy if you put off his regular dinner. Are you still thinking that'd be an issue?
We haven't had anyone try 10/14 that I know of but it might be a possibility too as his pre shots are so different. Then you could give him something to eat at 12 and test/shoot at 14.
My thinking is that you were worried he would drive you crazy if you put off his regular dinner. Are you still thinking that'd be an issue?
Cara and Wynken (GA)
Active Member
Sue, I appreciate all these suggestions, and may very well start doing something along these lines in the future, if it will help regulate him.
Right now I am so focused on the fact I have to leave for 7 days this coming Monday... And I have an older kitty who is in kidney failure and heart failure...
I will be happy to settle on a twice daily dose I can tell my cat sitter to shoot while I'm gone.
Right now I am so focused on the fact I have to leave for 7 days this coming Monday... And I have an older kitty who is in kidney failure and heart failure...
I will be happy to settle on a twice daily dose I can tell my cat sitter to shoot while I'm gone.
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
Sorry, Cara, I forgot you were leaving town.
Where are you in terms of a sitter who might test?
Where are you in terms of a sitter who might test?
Carol & Murphy (GA)
Very Active Member
Cara - good luck on your trip - I know how anxiety producing it must be to have all this going on and need to be away
Cara and Wynken (GA)
Active Member
It is. I have an excellent person who loves the kitties almost as much as I do and will come in twice daily. On this trip there's a lot of additional things she'll need to be doing including counting respirations on my heart failure kitty and injecting Lasix as needed. I have a kitty with hepatic issues who is taking a new medication as well as my regular assortment of hyper thyroid and other issues.
Although I consider testing for glucose incredibly important… There is no way I can ask her to learn to do that too. Besides, I am 99% sure that if she did the glucose testing that Wynk might learn to dislike it. And I can't afford that. We have a very delicate routine where he allows me to do it.
My entire future is riding on my trip next week. While visiting our Denver office I will actively be looking for a different job. I have been with the same company 20 years. And this is the only time I can go.
I have resigned myself to the fact that when I come home Andrea (CKD and heart kitty) may not have made it.
This will kill me.
I keep having fantasies about canceling the trip at the last moment on Monday morning… I'm incredibly emotional and having crying jags. It is a business trip, however, and the company has already bought the airline ticket, so I'm pretty well committed.
It's just going to have to be OK for the sitter to inject 1.8 units twice a day. I have taken about 20 trips over the last few years and this is what she has done with no testing.
Although I consider testing for glucose incredibly important… There is no way I can ask her to learn to do that too. Besides, I am 99% sure that if she did the glucose testing that Wynk might learn to dislike it. And I can't afford that. We have a very delicate routine where he allows me to do it.
My entire future is riding on my trip next week. While visiting our Denver office I will actively be looking for a different job. I have been with the same company 20 years. And this is the only time I can go.
I have resigned myself to the fact that when I come home Andrea (CKD and heart kitty) may not have made it.
This will kill me.I keep having fantasies about canceling the trip at the last moment on Monday morning… I'm incredibly emotional and having crying jags. It is a business trip, however, and the company has already bought the airline ticket, so I'm pretty well committed.
It's just going to have to be OK for the sitter to inject 1.8 units twice a day. I have taken about 20 trips over the last few years and this is what she has done with no testing.
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
It sounds like a good plan. I understand your anxieties but it seems you have done a great job of planning ahead. I hope you can consider what a wonderful life you have given these delicate kitties, more stable and caring that they would have gotten anywhere else. Your plan for Wynken sounds good.
You are coming my way! I live north of Denver in Westminster. The weather next week is supposed to be mild (50-60) so helpfully the snow will be melted. Right now we have mountains of it in the parking lots and streets.
You are coming my way! I live north of Denver in Westminster. The weather next week is supposed to be mild (50-60) so helpfully the snow will be melted. Right now we have mountains of it in the parking lots and streets.
Cara and Wynken (GA)
Active Member
Thanks Sue... Nearly all of my family and my fiancé live near Denver… Some in Littleton and the fiancé lives in Conifer. So hopefully, this trip would yield some sort of employment for me in the area and I can finally after 25 years in the Midwest make my way back home.
Meanwhile, I finally heard back from my veterinarian, who contacted Dr. Gilor at OSU. When she hadn't heard back from him, she also posted it on a forum for veterinarians. Today I received this note below that I have copied and pasted:
Cara - Dr. Gilor finally had time to look at Wynken's spreadsheet. He says there's a lot of information to discuss. Some possibility of Somogyi effect on some days - he said there can be a lot of day to day variability with Prozinc. Both he and the specialist that responded to me on VIN recommended an initial 20% decrease in dose. So I would go down from 2u to either 1.5 or 1.6u q 12 hours. I usually wait a week to do a curve after a dose change. Dr. Gilor would love to see you and Wynken for an appointment. His schedule varies but if you speak with the internal medicine tech named Jessica she can schedule you an appointment. The main number at OSU is 614-292-3551 - they can transfer you to internal medicine. Thanks - Denise
So starting tonight I am starting a 1.6 unit dose for him. I'm glad that I received this answer before I left… But in plenty of time for me to check him a few times at this dose over the weekend and even Monday morning before departing.
Meanwhile, I finally heard back from my veterinarian, who contacted Dr. Gilor at OSU. When she hadn't heard back from him, she also posted it on a forum for veterinarians. Today I received this note below that I have copied and pasted:
Cara - Dr. Gilor finally had time to look at Wynken's spreadsheet. He says there's a lot of information to discuss. Some possibility of Somogyi effect on some days - he said there can be a lot of day to day variability with Prozinc. Both he and the specialist that responded to me on VIN recommended an initial 20% decrease in dose. So I would go down from 2u to either 1.5 or 1.6u q 12 hours. I usually wait a week to do a curve after a dose change. Dr. Gilor would love to see you and Wynken for an appointment. His schedule varies but if you speak with the internal medicine tech named Jessica she can schedule you an appointment. The main number at OSU is 614-292-3551 - they can transfer you to internal medicine. Thanks - Denise
So starting tonight I am starting a 1.6 unit dose for him. I'm glad that I received this answer before I left… But in plenty of time for me to check him a few times at this dose over the weekend and even Monday morning before departing.
Rachel
Very Active Member
Cara, I understand your anxieties all too well. We all have them. Taking care of kitties with health issues is hard. It's rewarding because we know we are doing the right thing for them, but it's hard too. As Sue said, remember what a wonderful life you've given them. A lot of people wouldn't have taken care of them like you do. You've given them a wonderful life.
I think you should go on your trip. Hopefully it will land you a great job so you can move home!
I think you should go on your trip. Hopefully it will land you a great job so you can move home!
Carol & Murphy (GA)
Very Active Member
Cara
I find it interesting that the vet endocrinologist recommended the dosage decrease. When you get back, will you make an appointment? If you do, be sure to let us know what he says about Prozinc - I'm intrigued by the comment of the day to day variability of Prozinc - that has certainly been my experience.
I am so sorry you are having such an emotional roller coaster ride over this trip- I agree with Sue and Rachel - you should go on this trip and not feel guilty
We can wait a lifetime for perfect timing to make a much needed change - I too have had a very similar experience about having to travel for work at a time when a cat I loved was in bad shape - It is not fun. I sure hope Andrea will be okay but you have done all the preparations meticulously - I lived in Denver for 4 years a few decades ago, and my love for Colorado has never waned. Please go and try not to worry
I find it interesting that the vet endocrinologist recommended the dosage decrease. When you get back, will you make an appointment? If you do, be sure to let us know what he says about Prozinc - I'm intrigued by the comment of the day to day variability of Prozinc - that has certainly been my experience.
I am so sorry you are having such an emotional roller coaster ride over this trip- I agree with Sue and Rachel - you should go on this trip and not feel guilty
We can wait a lifetime for perfect timing to make a much needed change - I too have had a very similar experience about having to travel for work at a time when a cat I loved was in bad shape - It is not fun. I sure hope Andrea will be okay but you have done all the preparations meticulously - I lived in Denver for 4 years a few decades ago, and my love for Colorado has never waned. Please go and try not to worry
Marlena
Very Active Member
Dear Cara,
I feel for you.
It is difficult enough when you're at home so when you have to leave your kitties with somebody else it is almost unbearable!
I do understand your frustration and the only thing I can tell you is that I'm suffering as much as you so I know exactly how you feel.
I don't know if that helps you but I would like to send you my best wishes and prayers that everything will be all right in the end.
It is a long and bumpy road and your devotion is exemplary.
Have a good journey.
Lots of love from Marlena&Rocky XXX
I feel for you.
It is difficult enough when you're at home so when you have to leave your kitties with somebody else it is almost unbearable!
I do understand your frustration and the only thing I can tell you is that I'm suffering as much as you so I know exactly how you feel.
I don't know if that helps you but I would like to send you my best wishes and prayers that everything will be all right in the end.
It is a long and bumpy road and your devotion is exemplary.
Have a good journey.
Lots of love from Marlena&Rocky XXX
Cara and Wynken (GA)
Active Member
You ladies are just the BEST!
@Sue and Oliver (GA)
@Rachel
@Carol & Murphy
@Marlena
Wynk has been doing OK on the reduced dose so far. We started our third cycle this morning…
Yesterday was all about getting the cats ready for me to be gone. I worked the entire day cleaning and changing litter boxes and doing loads of laundry for their blankets, towels, and setting up the food & the forks and plates that will need to be used. I also had to re-label a bunch of bottles and containers that I use for medicines, supplements and various enticements that I put on food. It's weird how you don't think about the automatic way you reach for things you need… But then you have to think about another person knowing what to do. I always leave notes and checklists, but this time it seems like there is lots more than there ever has been before.
I had the sitter stop by last night so that she could watch me go through the regular evening routine... and I showed her a few things that she will need to do that she hasn't done before. She is a truly wonderful lady who wants to do whatever I would like done. She has three cats and has been taking care of mine for almost 4 years when I have had to be gone. She knows them well, and that is so valuable. She sings to them... Isn't that cute?
So today, I finish up my preparations for the cats and I pack my professional outfits and try to make sure I have thought of everything. Andrea is actually doing pretty well, and for that I am very grateful. Although her condition could worsen rapidly, I think it's going to be ok. The sitter knows to throw her in the carrier if in any doubt and the vet hospital is 15 min away.
Thanks for your caring and support, it means a LOT!
I am going to be making that appointment to take Wynk to OSU when I get back. It's almost 2 hours away, so that won't be very fun for him… But I think he'll do fine. I will start a new thread about all of this when I get back and know more about what Dr. Gilor thinks of his condition and Pro Zinc.
@Sue and Oliver (GA)
@Rachel
@Carol & Murphy
@Marlena
Wynk has been doing OK on the reduced dose so far. We started our third cycle this morning…
Yesterday was all about getting the cats ready for me to be gone. I worked the entire day cleaning and changing litter boxes and doing loads of laundry for their blankets, towels, and setting up the food & the forks and plates that will need to be used. I also had to re-label a bunch of bottles and containers that I use for medicines, supplements and various enticements that I put on food. It's weird how you don't think about the automatic way you reach for things you need… But then you have to think about another person knowing what to do. I always leave notes and checklists, but this time it seems like there is lots more than there ever has been before.
I had the sitter stop by last night so that she could watch me go through the regular evening routine... and I showed her a few things that she will need to do that she hasn't done before. She is a truly wonderful lady who wants to do whatever I would like done. She has three cats and has been taking care of mine for almost 4 years when I have had to be gone. She knows them well, and that is so valuable. She sings to them... Isn't that cute?
So today, I finish up my preparations for the cats and I pack my professional outfits and try to make sure I have thought of everything. Andrea is actually doing pretty well, and for that I am very grateful. Although her condition could worsen rapidly, I think it's going to be ok. The sitter knows to throw her in the carrier if in any doubt and the vet hospital is 15 min away.
Thanks for your caring and support, it means a LOT!
I am going to be making that appointment to take Wynk to OSU when I get back. It's almost 2 hours away, so that won't be very fun for him… But I think he'll do fine. I will start a new thread about all of this when I get back and know more about what Dr. Gilor thinks of his condition and Pro Zinc.
Carol & Murphy (GA)
Very Active Member
Great - please let us know how it goes
as far as the 2 hour drive - I've been regularly taking Murphy with me back and forth to Chicago which is a 2 hour drive - the cat hospital in Chicago gives me Gabapentin to give him for the ride - it is to make him calm with no sedation - it's also used for vet visit anxiety - break half the contents of a 100 mg capsule into a little food, and give it 2-3 hrs prior to travel or the vet visit - its a human med and need a prescription
best of luck, Cara, and high hopes for you in Colorado
as far as the 2 hour drive - I've been regularly taking Murphy with me back and forth to Chicago which is a 2 hour drive - the cat hospital in Chicago gives me Gabapentin to give him for the ride - it is to make him calm with no sedation - it's also used for vet visit anxiety - break half the contents of a 100 mg capsule into a little food, and give it 2-3 hrs prior to travel or the vet visit - its a human med and need a prescription
best of luck, Cara, and high hopes for you in Colorado
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
It sounds like you have the best preparations and plan in place. I am so hopeful that everything will go well in Colorado and back at home with the pet sitter. We will be thinking of you!
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