So Confused About Food

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SammyM

SammyM

Member Since 2014
My 13-year-old baby boy, Elvis, was recently diagnosed with diabetes. He has also been on Hill's Prescription Diet C/D for the last 10 years as prescribed by my vet after a UTI. Problem now is the C/D is way too high in carbs (which probably gave him the diabetes to begin with) and my vet has me freaking that I really shouldn't take him off it, but I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place because I can't get Elvis' #s low with no help from his food. Plus it is very difficult for me to take him in to the vet because he freaks so badly, that too contributes to his high numbers. So I'm beginning home glucose tests to avoid traumatizing him, and now I'm traumatized that I have to do this and fear I will hurt him.

I asked the vet to please come up with an alternative food regimen that can help with both the diabetes and keeping him safe against UTIs. He finally put him on HIll's Prescription W/D. Elvis has been eating it so that's good, but I notice it says "low fat" for weight management. Aren't low-fat foods typically high in carbs???? Here again, he's on a dry food with carbs I'm thinking. Plus, even though Elvis tends to weigh about 15-16 pounds....he's ALWAYS maintained the same weight throughout his life. He's a big boy and never overeats. Whatever the bag calls for for his weight is what I give him daily, and rarely does he ever finish the entire amount in a given day. He eats about 10-15 pieces and then walks away, repeating the process every few hours or so as he is a free-feeder.

I'm sorry to ramble, but I'm so perplexed and he just isn't the same playful kitty, although he is somewhat better since on the insulin. Doc put him on ProZinc, started at 3 units 2/day...after a week I brought him in for an 8-hr. curve and the doc said his #s didn't go below 450 and that he [Elvis] was very upset. When I take him home after that ordeal, it takes him 3-4 days to come out from a hiding place and show some signs of being normal. They increased his dosage to 4 units and he does seem to be a bit better, at least he was when I first started the increase, but now again he's sleeping way more than usual and just doesn't show the same playfulness as always; today I have to start taking the glucose readings at home because I told the vet I did not want to put him through going there for the day. He acquiesced. I purchased an Accu-check monitor with his approval.

Back to the food though...is it absolutely necessary for my cat to constantly be on a 'prescription' food? And why must it always be a 'dry' food?? I sometimes feel I'm not receiving all the options and am being made to feel I MUST stay on a Hill's Prescription product. Between the expense of the insulin, syringes, glucose strips, and the prescription food....I'm going broke fast. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Again, sorry for rambling on.

Thank you one and all!
 
I have no experience with UTI/bladder issues but I just red the description of c/d and it seems all it really is is a food low in phosphorus, high in omega 3, and potassium citrate. May I ask if they put Elvis on c/d after one UTI or reoccurring UTI's?
 
No you don't need the Rx food, many other foods are better quality and lower in carbs. Look at this chart to find foods lower than 10% carbs and which also have lower phosphorus. go to DR. Lisa's home page and read up on feline nutrition too.

Our Tess gets repeated UTI infections. Does Elvis get infections or inflammations from crystals? For infections we give Tess glucosamine/chondroitin (it helps to strengthen the bladder lining just as it does joints), probiotics to keep bad bacteria that can migrate in check in the colon and a cranberry/d-Mannose supplement. We use Pet Naturals of Vermont UT Support and she loves them as a treat. If it is crystals Dr. Lisa has a good page on that as well. Feeding canned food w/ supplemental water is important for both UTI and diabetes.
 
You might find this article helpful for one vets take on Urinary Tract Issues. Her main point is that water in the diet is key.

Yes, the Hill's W/d dry food is very high in carbs, around 37%. It sure didn't help my diabetic cat Wink get regulated. Once I switched him to low carb canned food, he quickly went into remission. Plus, Wink hasn't had a UTI in more than a year, ever since I switched him to the canned food.

Does your cat like wet/canned food? How about trying the Friskies Special Diet foods? They are low in phosphorus and low in carbs for a diabetic cat. This food chart lists most of the canned foods available in the US. Pick one that is <10% carbs which is more appropriate for a diabetic cat and one that is <250 mg phosphorus/100 cals.

A member here made up this list, which is all the foods from that food chart that are <8% carbs and also low phosphorus.

Shortcut shopping list <250 phosphorus. Adapted from Rhiannon & Shadow’s shortcut list
all values are from Dr. Pierson's updated list, September 2012

carbs in % . . last number is phosphorus (CKD, CRF cats need under 250 phosphorus)

5% - Friskies Special diet Beef and Liver entree 241
5% - Friskies Special diet Turkey and Giblets dinner pate 189
5% - Friskies Special diet Beef and Chicken Entree pate 242
7% - Friskies Special Diet with Salmon 228

3% Weruva Paw Lickin' chicken 196
9% Weruva Green Eggs & chicken 230
4% Weruva On the Cat Wok 163
5% Weruva Steak Frites 118
7% Weruva MidEast Feast 202

Weruva Cats in the Kitchen canned food
3% La Isla Bonita 166
8% Funk in the Trunk 250
4% Fowl Ball 180
8% Lamb Burger-ini 236
2% Chicken Frick 'A Zee 174
8% The Double Dip 248

5% - Merrick Cowboy cookout 202
8% - Merrick Grammy's pot pie 237
3% - Merrick Surf n Turf 229
9% -Merrick Turducken 219

1% - Merrick Before Grain cat 96% beef – 163
2% - Merrick Before Grain cat 96% turkey – 178

5% - Wellness Kitten 216
4% - Wellness chicken 219
4% - Wellness turkey 201
4% - Wellness Beef and chicken 226
6% - Wellness beef & salmon 207


8% - Wellness Core chicken/turkey/chicken liver 215
5% - Wellness Core Beef , Venison & Lamb 171

3% - Nature's Variety Instinct Grain free Beef – 248
1% - Nature's Variety Instinct Grain free Duck 191

2% - Natura Evo 95% chicken and turkey 155
4% - Natura Evo 95% beef – 234

2% Hounds & Gatos chicken 241
9% Hounds & Gatos Beef 250
3% Hounds & Gatos Lamb/chicken/salmon 225
3% Hounds & Gatos Lamb & Duck Liver 244

8% -Holistic Select chicken & lamb 222

3% Soulistic Polynesian Picnic 239
4% Soulistic Celestial Feast 250
7% Soulistic Upstream Dream 234
8% Soulistic Nautical Nirvana 228

9% Max Cat Chicken Supreme 173
8% Max Cat with savory duck 197
8% Max Cat with Savory Venison 214

8% Avoderm Chicken Chunks/gravy 234
2% Avoderm Tuna % chicken w/ veggies 241

9% Halo Succulent Salmon 227

1% Eukanuba adult Entree with gourmet chicken 239
8% Eukanuba adult Entree with Lamb and Rice 230
3% Eukanuba adult Entree with Pacific Salmon 241

7% Evolve -chicken 214
6% Evolve turkey 244

0% Natural Balance O'Fischally Scampi 244

5% Pinnacle Chicken and Ocean fish 175
5% Pinnacle Chicken and Tuna 221
4% Pinnacle Ocean Fish 231

3% Authority Chicken 238
7% Authority Turkey & Giblets 222
8% Authority Beef 249


BFF (Best Feline Friends ) also made by Weruva
BFF 2% Tuna and Chicken 234
BFF 2% Tuna and Salmon soulmates 236
BFF 2% Tuna and Shrimp Sweethearts 236
BFF 2% Tuna and Bonito Be Mine 240
BFF 2% Tuna & Tilapia Twosome 240
BFF 5% Tuna & Pumpkin Valentine 243
BFF 2% Tuna & Chicken Chuckles 234

8% Dr Fosters and Smiths Chicken 204

2% ZiwiPeak Lamb 224
 
dirtybirdsoaps said:
I have no experience with UTI/bladder issues but I just red the description of c/d and it seems all it really is is a food low in phosphorus, high in omega 3, and potassium citrate. May I ask if they put Elvis on c/d after one UTI or reoccurring UTI's?
Click to expand...

He had one UTI about 10 years ago and the vet told me he would have to be on this food the rest of his life. He has never had another UTI which is why I was hesitant to take him off the C/D. When a vet says "I wouldn't advise it" you tend to listen, even though I've had my doubts about him being on this food for so long, especially during the last 4 or 5 years. What drove me crazy was when Hill's drove the price of this food up from $28 a bag to $36; every time I asked the vet if there was something else out there that was just as good but maybe not so darn expensive, I would get the same dismissive answer...."No, and do you really want to take a chance with something else when this is working?"

Now I could kick myself because I'm pretty certain this food is what caused the diabetes. Now it seems they just moved me from one expensive carb-filled food to another. I want to scream...I am so careful about taking any meds from my own doctor because I feel they sometimes cause more problems than cure, and seek alternative means...so far so good....WHY didn't I use the same thinking with Elvis??!!!
 
Ann & Tess said:
No you don't need the Rx food, many other foods are better quality and lower in carbs. Look at this chart to find foods lower than 10% carbs and which also have lower phosphorus. go to DR. Lisa's home page and read up on feline nutrition too.

Our Tess gets repeated UTI infections. Does Elvis get infections or inflammations from crystals? For infections we give Tess glucosamine/chondroitin (it helps to strengthen the bladder lining just as it does joints), probiotics to keep bad bacteria that can migrate in check in the colon and a cranberry/d-Mannose supplement. We use Pet Naturals of Vermont UT Support and she loves them as a treat. If it is crystals Dr. Lisa has a good page on that as well. Feeding canned food w/ supplemental water is important for both UTI and diabetes.
Click to expand...

I am so happy to have found this website and all of you wonderfully informative people. To answer your question, Elvis had just one UTI when he was about 3 or 4, and never had one again, but the vet had me believing it was because of this one-of-a-kind special food from Hill's, C/D. Since UTIs are much more dangerous and require more immediate intervention in males than females, I've been scared to try anything else. I would have if my vet would have been a bit more forthcoming and encouraging about alternatives.

Funny you should cite "Vitacost"....I get all my own personal supplements etc. from there as well. I so wish I had used my own intuition and judgment and treated Elvis on my own, but when a vet kind of scares you into thinking I could be doing more harm then good, you tend to listen.

So bottom line....I don't even know if Elvis has any UT problems anymore...he certainly has a very healthy urination when he goes. He's never really eaten anything but this food so I hope he will eat the canned because I've put fresh salmon in from of him and he's snubbed his nose.

thank you so much....your information has really helped in many ways.
 
Deb & Wink said:
You might find this article helpful for one vets take on Urinary Tract Issues. Her main point is that water in the diet is key.

Yes, the Hill's W/d dry food is very high in carbs, around 37%. It sure didn't help my diabetic cat Wink get regulated. Once I switched him to low carb canned food, he quickly went into remission. Plus, Wink hasn't had a UTI in more than a year, ever since I switched him to the canned food.

Does your cat like wet/canned food? How about trying the Friskies Special Diet foods? They are low in phosphorus and low in carbs for a diabetic cat. This food chart lists most of the canned foods available in the US. Pick one that is <10% carbs which is more appropriate for a diabetic cat and one that is <250 mg phosphorus/100 cals.

A member here made up this list, which is all the foods from that food chart that are <8% carbs and also low phosphorus.

Shortcut shopping list <250 phosphorus. Adapted from Rhiannon & Shadow’s shortcut list
all values are from Dr. Pierson's updated list, September 2012
carbs in % . . last number is phosphorus (CKD, CRF cats need under 250 phosphorus)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Wow, so much unbelievable information. Thank you!!!!! This is great!

So my suspicions about the W/D were correct. Do vets get a kick back from companies (like Hill's) when they write prescriptions? I know M.D.s do....it wouldn't surprise me, else why so adamant for me to keep my cat on this food for 10 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Makes me angry...how many times I've asked if there are alternatives.

This last line you wrote.... "carbs in % . . last number is phosphorus (CKD, CRF cats need under 250 phosphorus)" ....what exactly does this mean (i.e. CKD, CRF??)???

I'm not sure if Elvis will eat canned food....I can try....he's not real finicky so perhaps he will, but then again, he's walked away from fresh salmon so I don't know. What would be your suggestion to try for the first time? He is a free feeder who does not like to eat a lot at once....if I also leave some dry food out for him like for during the night (because he definitely won't eat wet food that was sitting out for awhile), what would be your suggestion?

Thank you so much again, everyone has been amazing.
 
This is just anecdotal, no evidence it has ANYTHING to do with it, but within about 1 year of going on Hills CD (dry) for his recurring UTI is when my boy spider first developed his diabetes. I'm keeping him on the WD the vet recommended until we can get the monitoring routine down then transitioning him off that onto low carb.
 
nwfisher said:
This is just anecdotal, no evidence it has ANYTHING to do with it, but within about 1 year of going on Hills CD (dry) for his recurring UTI is when my boy spider first developed his diabetes. I'm keeping him on the WD the vet recommended until we can get the monitoring routine down then transitioning him off that onto low carb.
Click to expand...



When you say the "monitoring routine".....do you mean his glucose levels? How old is Spider? Do you notice any difference in his energy levels since he's been on the WD? Elvis seems less energetic since I changed his food.
 
dtbm51 said:
nwfisher said:
This is just anecdotal, no evidence it has ANYTHING to do with it, but within about 1 year of going on Hills CD (dry) for his recurring UTI is when my boy spider first developed his diabetes. I'm keeping him on the WD the vet recommended until we can get the monitoring routine down then transitioning him off that onto low carb.
Click to expand...



When you say the "monitoring routine".....do you mean his glucose levels? How old is Spider? Do you notice any difference in his energy levels since he's been on the WD? Elvis seems less energetic since I changed his food.
Click to expand...

Yes, his glucose levels. I don't want to do any food change from what the vet was feeding him when he had him as an inpatient doing regular monitoring because that's what he used to set his insulin dose. That is not until I am doing regular monitoring myself. I tried to test last night, but after 4 sticks I didn't get a big enough drop for a good test so we called it a night. Still working on it. We're going to try and test again tonight. Spider is 13 years old and slightly overweight, but not much, could stand to lose maybe 1 or 2 pounds. His energy level is MUCH better since he came home. That could be the food, but it could be the fact his glucose isn't through the roof.
 
nwfisher said:
dtbm51 said:
nwfisher said:
This is just anecdotal, no evidence it has ANYTHING to do with it, but within about 1 year of going on Hills CD (dry) for his recurring UTI is when my boy spider first developed his diabetes. I'm keeping him on the WD the vet recommended until we can get the monitoring routine down then transitioning him off that onto low carb.
Click to expand...



When you say the "monitoring routine".....do you mean his glucose levels? How old is Spider? Do you notice any difference in his energy levels since he's been on the WD? Elvis seems less energetic since I changed his food.
Click to expand...

Yes, his glucose levels. I don't want to do any food change from what the vet was feeding him when he had him as an inpatient doing regular monitoring because that's what he used to set his insulin dose. That is not until I am doing regular monitoring myself. I tried to test last night, but after 4 sticks I didn't get a big enough drop for a good test so we called it a night. Still working on it. We're going to try and test again tonight. Spider is 13 years old and slightly overweight, but not much, could stand to lose maybe 1 or 2 pounds. His energy level is MUCH better since he came home. That could be the food, but it could be the fact his glucose isn't through the roof.
Click to expand...

Elvis is 13 too, and weighs about 15 lbs. but he's had the same weight all his adult life...it never fluctuates. He doesn't appear overweight...just long and big. What was Spider's initial glucose reading when it was as you say 'through the roof'? I'm going to start testing tomorrow...did you run into any problems when you first started to test him? Do you use the ear?
 
If you absolutely, positively must.get.blood (ex, you think he may be too low), you can aim directly for the vein.
It may bleed profusely, so be prepared to get a sample quickly - you can test from a clean fingernail that scooped up the droplet - and apply direct pressure to minimize bruising and stop the bleeding.
 
"Elvis is 13 too, and weighs about 15 lbs. but he's had the same weight all his adult life...it never fluctuates. He doesn't appear overweight...just long and big. What was Spider's initial glucose reading when it was as you say 'through the roof'? I'm going to start testing tomorrow...did you run into any problems when you first started to test him? Do you use the ear?"

He was 600 on the initial vet visit.

Yes I used the ear. Got a good test just now by hitting the vein. That was good. The also good, but problematic is it's time for his shot and he just tested 109.
 
That's what is nice about ProZinc - you can shoot what you see, i.e. adjust the dose based on the pre-shot.
No spreadsheet.

What dose did you give.
Take the amount of drop vs the amount of insulin and check the ratio of a few shots - how many units dropped how much?
Be conservative in the dose.

Can you make your own post in Feline Health?
 
BJM said:
That's what is nice about ProZinc - you can shoot what you see, i.e. adjust the dose based on the pre-shot.
No spreadsheet.

What dose did you give.
Take the amount of drop vs the amount of insulin and check the ratio of a few shots - how many units dropped how much?
Be conservative in the dose.

Can you make your own post in Feline Health?
Click to expand...

Hmmm...I have to admit, I'm real new to this and a bit confused by what you wrote...

That's what is nice about ProZinc - you can shoot what you see, i.e. adjust the dose based on the pre-shot.
No spreadsheet.
Take the amount of drop vs the amount of insulin and check the ratio of a few shots - how many units dropped how much? Be conservative in the dose.

Can you make your own post in Feline Health?
Click to expand...

He was started on 3 units of ProZinc b.i.d. on March 12. On March 21 I brought him in for a glucose curve...they kept him for 8 hours and performed 5 tests...the vet said he never went below 450 so he told me to raise the dosage to 4, which he's been on since March 24. They wanted him in for another 8-hr. stay one week later, but I decided then to try to do testing at home since it freaked him out so much to be at the vet's all day and I was afraid that was perhaps skewing the #s a bit too. The vet acquiesced and I got the meter and strips this past weekend, but haven't taken a test yet until I'm absolutely sure I know what I'm doing...most likely it will be some time today which brings me to ask....Is there an ideal time to take these tests and how many in a day?
 
When I write 'you can shoot what you see', I mean you can adjust the dose downward when your pre-shot is quite low. Or you can adjust the dose upwards if the pre-shot is quite high.

You look at your test data and see how much drop in glucose level did you get in 5-6 hours, for several recent tests. Then you calculate how much drop did you get for how much insulin.

For example, when Gracie tests between 250-300 mg/dL, I can give her 1.2 units of insulin and know that she will drop to around 100-150 mg/dL at her lowest point between shots. Since I'm not home to monitor her closely, I don't want her to dop further and risk hypoglycemia. If she's off her food - maybe a hairball is in the works - and she tests between 150-200, I can cut ny dose to 0.6 mg/dL because my test data has shown me that if 1.2 units will drop her 100-150 mg/dL, 0.6 units will drop her about 50-75 mg/dL, and she will be safe.

(She just had a dental with 7 teeth removed, so we're in the midst of adjusting her dose a bit. Plus my schedule this week has me giving insulin later in the evening than 12 hours so her numbers this week ook poor.)
 
BJM said:
When I write 'you can shoot what you see', I mean you can adjust the dose downward when your pre-shot is quite low. Or you can adjust the dose upwards if the pre-shot is quite high.

You look at your test data and see how much drop in glucose level did you get in 5-6 hours, for several recent tests. Then you calculate how much drop did you get for how much insulin.

For example, when Gracie tests between 250-300 mg/dL, I can give her 1.2 units of insulin and know that she will drop to around 100-150 mg/dL at her lowest point between shots. Since I'm not home to monitor her closely, I don't want her to dop further and risk hypoglycemia. If she's off her food - maybe a hairball is in the works - and she tests between 150-200, I can cut ny dose to 0.6 mg/dL because my test data has shown me that if 1.2 units will drop her 100-150 mg/dL, 0.6 units will drop her about 50-75 mg/dL, and she will be safe.

(She just had a dental with 7 teeth removed, so we're in the midst of adjusting her dose a bit. Plus my schedule this week has me giving insulin later in the evening than 12 hours so her numbers this week ook poor.)
Click to expand...

I really appreciate this, but must admit that now my head is swimming...first of all, what is a "pre-shot"???? I am unfamiliar with this term. I can kind of figure out the match part of what you said, but this all now seems so involved and precise. How often do I test? How many days of the week? It seems like I'm going to go broke just buying test strips, plus I don't want to be sticking his ear so often. And now this hypoglycemia you bring up has got me anxious.
 
Always test before you shoot (give insulin). This is to make sure it is safe to give insulin. No shot below 150 mg/dL unless you have test data showing it is safe.

Whenever possible, test around the probable nadir (lowest point between shots) to see how well the insulin is working.
- For ProZinc, that is about 5 to 6 hours after insulin injection.
- no lower than 50 mg/dL on a human glucometer is safe

If he tests below 50 mg/dL before the likely nadir, steer the numbers with food, ie
- give 1-2 teaspoons of high carb food
- wait 20-30 minutes
- re-test
- repeat if still too low
- once you're past nadir and numbers are onver 100 mg/dL, switch back to low carb food
 
BJM said:
Always test before you shoot (give insulin). This is to make sure it is safe to give insulin. No shot below 150 mg/dL unless you have test data showing it is safe.

Whenever possible, test around the probable nadir (lowest point between shots) to see how well the insulin is working.
- For ProZinc, that is about 5 to 6 hours after insulin injection.
- no lower than 50 mg/dL on a human glucometer is safe

If he tests below 50 mg/dL before the likely nadir, steer the numbers with food, ie
- give 1-2 teaspoons of high carb food
- wait 20-30 minutes
- re-test
- repeat if still too low
- once you're past nadir and numbers are onver 100 mg/dL, switch back to low carb food
Click to expand...
Thank you...this is a bit more understandable for this newbie. One more question....I am using the AccuCheck Nano and their FastClix lancet....what # do you recommend I set the lancet for his ear, and about what % should I anticipate being the difference between this human meter and the vet's?
 
I am in tears right now wondering why I can't seem to draw blood out of Elvis' ears. I must have pricked him with the lancet 12 times I all I get is a red spot. The lancet is set at the highest setting, in fact several times it's pierced his ear and gone into my finger and I've had blood come out of my own finger. WHAT AM I DOING WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please help...I've watched at least a half dozen videos on youtube and am right at the edge of the ear where the nerve is, but no matter where I prick him, I can't get enough blood. This is all so frustrating.
 
Finally!!! A 190 reading on the human meter. Can anyone tell me what that translates to? This is 5.5 hrs after his insulin shot.
 
I don't use a lancet device, I freehand it as I can better see what I am doing. Others who do use a lancet device start low and increase as needed.

Human glucometers can run about 30-40% lower than pet-specific meters. We have pet-specific reference numbers for use of human glucometers, so there is no need to do any math to adjust the numbers. I'll post those next.
 
We suggest using an inexpensive human glucometer with pet-specific reference numbers. One many of us use is the WalMart Relion Confirm, or Confirm Micro, which is also sold at American Diabetes Wholesale as as the Arkray USA Glucocard 01 or 01 Mini (same manufacturer - Arkray USA). It uses a tiny blood droplet and the cost is significantly lower for test strips (like $0.36 each).

Comparing a human glucometer to a pet-specific glucometer is like reading temperature in Celsius vs Fahrenheit. Both are correct. You just need to know the reference ranges to interpret what the numbers mean.

[Glucose reference ranges are unsubstantiated and have been removed by Moderator]


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *​
Examples of using the chart:

Ex. You are a new insulin user and you test your cat before giving insulin. The test is 300. It probably is safe to give insulin.

Ex. You are an established user of Lantus, following the Tight Regulation protocol. You've tested around +5 to +7 to spot the nadir. It is 200 mg/dL. You probably need to increase the dose, following the instructions for the protocol.

Ex. Your cat is acting funny. The eyes are a bit dilated. You are concerned and test the glucose. The number is 35 mg/dL. ACK! The cat may be in a hypoglycemic state. You quickly follow the HYPO protocol linked in the glucose reference values chart. (which we really, really, suggest you print out and post on your refrigerator.)
 
Hi,

Re testing, a few things I've found helpful are:
Massaging the cat's ear prior to testing, or warming it (maybe with a pill bottle filled with warm water) will help to increase blood flow to the ear.
Pricking twice close together can sometimes produce enough for a test.
Putting pressure (with a finger or piece of cotton wool) on the underside side of the ear can help. The lancet needs something to 'resist' otherwise it can just push the ear away.
Putting a teensy weensy smidge of vaseline on the edge of the ear can help the blood to 'bead up' rather than disappearing into the fur.
If you have a teensy drop of blood but not quite enough then massaging gently immediately below the test site will 'milk' more blood out of the ear.

It does take a bit of practice. Be kind to yourself!

And the ears bleed more easily in time (they grow more blood vessels and make our job easier!).

Eliz
 
Elvis I thought was doing great but now I'm not sure....yesterday 6 hours after his first insulin shot his bg was 190 on the Accu-Check Nano; before his evening shot (6 hrs. later) it was 144. This morning before his morning shot it was 139. The vet advised to skip the morning shot and take the bg again before his evening shot...."if the # is below 200, don't give him the insulin, if it's not over 250, reduce the dosage, and over 300 to resume his regular dose"...Happy happy joy joy, right?.....not so fast....

I noticed Elvis wasn't eating like he was and was lethargic again. I decided to do a bg at 1:00 today instead of waiting until 7:00 just to see what was going on and the # jumped again to 352. I called the vet to see if I should give him his insulin shot but he said not to, to wait for his regular time tonight or I'll have his schedule all screwed up.

I also noticed, and I can't swear how long it may have been this way or if it's a recent occurrence, but one of his canine fangs is missing. The fact that he hasn't eaten anything since yesterday has me concerned too. [As I write this, he just ate a few bites, but not very much.]

I don't know if I have any specific question here...just sharing, but if someone has any input from their own experience, it would be comforting to hear. I guess I just don't get how his #s were under 200 and continued to drop to 139 over an 18 hour period, then jumped to 352 in the final 6 hours??? Is this considered typical?

Thanks again one and all!!!!
 
An intermittent problem which flares might cause that. Examples include pancreatitis, hepatitis (liver inflammation), colitis (inflammation of the colon), and IBD (inflammatory bowel disease).
 
BJM said:
An intermittent problem which flares might cause that. Examples include pancreatitis, hepatitis (liver inflammation), colitis (inflammation of the colon), and IBD (inflammatory bowel disease).
Click to expand...

Oh great....something else I can look forward to? Also...I picked up a few cans of some of the ones in the acceptable list for low carbs and phosphorous. The first one I gave him was the Wellness Chicken...I was very happy when I saw him lapping it up, but went I went over to the dish, most of the food was still there but all of the liquid/gravy was gone. I gave him a half of this small can...when I read the feeding instructions, it calls for 2 cans/6-8 lbs of body weight. I don't know how I'm going to get him to eat 4 cans a day when he barely ate any from the half!!??
 
There are numerous 'incentives' to encourage a cat to eat. Here are some to try one at a time.

- warm the food to baby bottle temperature (warm, not hot, on wrist) and it smells tastier ... to the cat
- Forti Flora - a probiotic in yummy (to many cats) animal digest. Helps maintain colon health and encourages eating for many
- 15-20 minutes of active play helps trigger the hunt, catch, kill, eat, eliminate, groom, sleep behavior cycle. It also helps the insulin work better and strengthens the bond beteen you.
- pick it up, stir it up, put it back down and now its 'new food' which may get nibbled.
- offer food on a finger
- dried bonito flakes sprinkled on top
- Parmesan cheese sprinkled on top
- crushed dry food sprinkled on top
 
BJM said:
There are numerous 'incentives' to encourage a cat to eat. Here are some to try one at a time.

- warm the food to baby bottle temperature (warm, not hot, on wrist) and it smells tastier ... to the cat
- Forti Flora - a probiotic in yummy (to many cats) animal digest. Helps maintain colon health and encourages eating for many
- 15-20 minutes of active play helps trigger the hunt, catch, kill, eat, eliminate, groom, sleep behavior cycle. It also helps the insulin work better and strengthens the bond beteen you.
- pick it up, stir it up, put it back down and now its 'new food' which may get nibbled.
- offer food on a finger
- dried bonito flakes sprinkled on top
- Parmesan cheese sprinkled on top
- crushed dry food sprinkled on top
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Gracie, these are terrific suggestions. He's only had the damn (and I say that specifically because I believe it's what caused all his problems) Hill's Prescription C/D dry food his entire life. I did put about a teaspoon of water and restirred what he left in the dish and he ate some more but I like your ideas better. Thanks again.
 
BJM said:
I'm BJ
My current diabetic kitty is Gracie.
My GA diabetic is Spitzer.
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Thank you for clarifying, BJ...it's hard to tell sometimes the owner's name from the pet's :-) What is Spitzer? What is "GA"?
You really have your hands full. This has really got me anxious and freaked. Was it that way for you too in the beginning? I'm so crazy about this little guy...he's everything to me. I've had a lot of cats in my lifetime, but this one is unusually special and I'm so afraid for him...just want him to feel better and chase the laser light all over the place like he use to. Now he just pats at it like trying to catch a fly, but won't run after it anymore.
 
GA stands for "Gone Ahead" , it's a shorthand for those of our kitties who have died.

just want him to feel better and chase the laser light all over the place like he use to. Now he just pats at it like trying to catch a fly, but won't run after it anymore.
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It will take some time for Elvis to get better. He did not get diabetes one day, it was a slow gradual process. It will take time for the insulin and food change to have an impact. He will show some improvement, and start to act like his old self in time.

When I started fostering my sugardude Wink, he could hardly walk because of the diabetic neuropathy and forget about him wanting to play. Now, he runs all over the place and jumps everywhere. I'm sure you'll start to see similar improvements for Elvis.

The pancreas will take time to heal and restore the function of those beta cells that produce insulin. Cats are unique in being able to do this healing but it can take some time if it's going to happen.

For now, you just have to support Elvis the best you can by continuing to give him the insulin and low carb food to help him get better.
 
Deb & Wink said:
GA stands for "Gone Ahead" , it's a shorthand for those of our kitties who have died.

just want him to feel better and chase the laser light all over the place like he use to. Now he just pats at it like trying to catch a fly, but won't run after it anymore.
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It will take some time for Elvis to get better. He did not get diabetes one day, it was a slow gradual process. It will take time for the insulin and food change to have an impact. He will show some improvement, and start to act like his old self in time.

When I started fostering my sugardude Wink, he could hardly walk because of the diabetic neuropathy and forget about him wanting to play. Now, he runs all over the place and jumps everywhere. I'm sure you'll start to see similar improvements for Elvis.

The pancreas will take time to heal and restore the function of those beta cells that produce insulin. Cats are unique in being able to do this healing but it can take some time if it's going to happen.

For now, you just have to support Elvis the best you can by continuing to give him the insulin and low carb food to help him get better.
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The support here is phenomenal, thank you Deb. Wow...I love that Gone Ahead .....I have two GAs....Bingo, renal failure, age 17 and Touchdown, heart, age 18. He was very much like Elvis in personality and sweet temperament. I've been closer to my male cats for some reason, as the females were more standoffish and prissy. The boys were/are more loving, interactive with humans, and kind hearted.

Thanks for the pep talk...I look forward to having Elvis back to his old self.
 
}Km going to confess here - I was not freaked out by learning Spitzer had diabetes. I work as an epidmiologist (population health) and know that diabetes is a treatable disease.

I got frustrated towards the end with Spitzer because he developed inflammatory bowel disease and I could never predict if he'd be able to eat consistently and keep it down. That in turn meant I had to get unusually creative in finding ways to control his glucose and was just about getting a regime figured out when he threw a saddle thrombus - a blood colt to his back legs. It was excrutiating with limited chances for recovery and I had him euthanized rather than letting him suffer.
 
BJM said:
}Km going to confess here - I was not freaked out by learning Spitzer had diabetes. I work as an epidmiologist (population health) and know that diabetes is a treatable disease.

I got frustrated towards the end with Spitzer because he developed inflammatory bowel disease and I could never predict if he'd be able to eat consistently and keep it down. That in turn meant I had to get unusually creative in finding ways to control his glucose and was just about getting a regime figured out when he threw a saddle thrombus - a blood colt to his back legs. It was excrutiating with limited chances for recovery and I had him euthanized rather than letting him suffer.
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Gosh I know how difficult a decision that had to be. When Touchdown was about 10 he developed hyperthyroidism. At that time there weren't to many vets in South Florida that had an alternative treatment plan other than pills for the rest of his life. I learned about a vet in Atlanta that administered a radioactive shot that had pretty good results for a complete reversal and I was prepared to take him when this vet told me there was one other clinic in my a area that does it. I brought TD for a consultation and they said it would be $1,000 for the shot, they would have to keep him quarantined for a week because he would have high levels of radiation, and when I finally did bring him home I would have to empty the litter box completely every day for about another week while he eliminated whatever else was in his system, and put new litter.

I couldn't see him, or me for that matter, on pills the rest of his life and they were pretty costly too. I opted for the shot and TD lived another 8 years as healthy as a horse until his heart gave out at 18. I had to decide to euthanize him too because the vet gave me little hope. As it turned out, he died before they had the chance to administer the fatal shot. Worst day of my life! Elvis came into my life by chance a couple of weeks later and I was certain Touchdown sent him to me because they are sooooooo much alike.

Anyway, they truly are part of your heart and soul.
 
I might be a little late to this ball-game.

My oldest kitty Maahes, was recently diagnosed with diabetes. It is extremely hard to get blood out of his ears at times. I've found it helpful to have a mini rice sock handy that I can warm up. I put it directly behind his ear and use my fingers on either side to press down. I aim the lancet on the very edge of his outer ear and can usually get enough blood for a test. If it's not on the outer edge, then I usually fail.

The rice sock also helps warm the ear which makes it bleed easier...and saves my fingers from an accidental prick.
 
Erinia said:
I might be a little late to this ball-game.

My oldest kitty Maahes, was recently diagnosed with diabetes. It is extremely hard to get blood out of his ears at times. I've found it helpful to have a mini rice sock handy that I can warm up. I put it directly behind his ear and use my fingers on either side to press down. I aim the lancet on the very edge of his outer ear and can usually get enough blood for a test. If it's not on the outer edge, then I usually fail.

The rice sock also helps warm the ear which makes it bleed easier...and saves my fingers from an accidental prick.
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Thank you, Erinia, I didn't have any rice but warmed a very small semi-soft plastic bottle with water and it worked, but what helped even more was using a free lancet instead of a pen. Trying to line up the hole on the pen with the outer edge of the ear was murderously frustrating and drew more blood from my finger than his ear. cat(2)_steam
 
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