Smokey 5/21 AMPS-382 | +5-467 | PM-508 | +3 363
- Thread starter Smokey
- Start date
- Status
Re: Smokey 5/21 AMPS-382 | +5-467 | PM-508
There can be up to 20% meter variance. That could be what you're seeing although numbers are still up at PMPS. Hopefully, this is a high before a break.
There can be up to 20% meter variance. That could be what you're seeing although numbers are still up at PMPS. Hopefully, this is a high before a break.
Re: Smokey 5/21 AMPS-382 | +5-467 | PM-508
Denne:
Could you try to remember to link your condo from the previous day? Here's the link to Smokey's 5/20 condo.
I'm a little confused though. Given the discussion in yesterday's condo, was there an error on Smokey's SS?
Denne:
Could you try to remember to link your condo from the previous day? Here's the link to Smokey's 5/20 condo.
I'm a little confused though. Given the discussion in yesterday's condo, was there an error on Smokey's SS?
Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
I think what Sienne meant about an 'error' was that you increased Smokey's dose again. Sweetie, you aren't helping Smokey by doing this. You seriously are not. Sienne was not being 'sweet', although she is a very nice person. She was telling it 'like it is'. Sometimes numbers do go up right before a break. Not even sometimes...a lot. you could be setting Smokey up for a hypo situation if this is too much insulin for him. Please, read the protocol again. This is a cat who has gone down to 40. What if this happens when you are sleeping???? I don't mean to scare you but this could happen. You have changed Smokey's dose 5 times in the last 2.5 days. And you're doing it in large amounts to boot. .50 can make a huge difference in a little cat's system. You can not do that with Lantus. It just will not amount to anything good for too may reasons to mention and I think you already know them all. PLEASE let him settle into a dose for at least 6 cycles. That is what's best for him...no matter how much it bothers YOU. Everyone told you last night that we have all been to the place where you are at. We have suffered your frustrations and we sympathize with you. But sit on your hands or post or do whatever you have to to NOT mess with Smokey's doses anymore. I KNOW you don't want to hurt him but apparently you don't understand just how powerful insulin is and how quickly a bounce can break. A break and a raised dose are not a good combination. Please spot check Smokey often tonight and lower his dose in the morning back down to 1.75 or 2.0 tops. That is my suggestion.
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
hi denne. i agree with all caryl has stated above. 2u has brought smokey down to at least 40 (that we know of). please bring the dose down to 1.75u or 2u tops in the morning. i'm happy to see you've started getting more spot checks. get them whenever possible. in the door, out the door, preshot, before bed... these are all times that smokey can be tested by those who work outside the home.Caryl and Alex said:
also --- please re-read the TR protocol! especially the parts about increasing and decreasing the dose. if you have questions please ask. we're willing to help all we possibly can. please... the dosing method you're using is scaring us. nailbite_smile
Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Denne,
I don't mean to be a pain but... what do you think you are doing "according to protocol"? I just read your spreadsheet and not only are you not taking advice from any of us who are trying to help you, but you are REALLY not doing anything according to protocol accept for the way that your mind is filtering it. You changed his dose to what you wanted to change it to and that makes 6 times in 3 days. 6 dosecreases in 3 days!!!!
This is the protocol for increasing doses: " Most cats need to have their dose increased. Do it in 0.25 IU or 0.5 IU steps (0.25 IU if the cat is getting a low dose and/or relatively low BGs, 0.5 IU if the cat is getting a higher dose and/or relatively high BGs). Hold each dose for 5-7 days. However, if the cat is producing continuously high BGs (nadir always >=300 mg/dl), only hold the dose for 2-3 days before increasing it by 0.5 IU. Alternatively, if the cat is continuously producing moderately elevated BGs (nadir always >=200 mg/dl), increase the dose every 2-3 days by 0.25 IU ( if the cat is getting a low dose) or 0.5 IU (if the cat is getting a higher dose). From this point onward test for ketones once per week, or more often if the nadirs are still >=200 mg/dl.
Many cats will occasionally react to an increased dose with increased BGs - within the first 2 to 3 days after an increase, usually lasting for less than 24 hours. Nobody really knows what the reason for this phenomenon is (perhaps a "panicky liver"?) - hold the dose and ignore the fluctuations.
You stayed at 2.50 this morning in spite of what I'm sure you read and Thank God Smokey is okay since you had no idea what his nadirs are for the most part because you spot checked him for like 3 days.....DOSING IS NOT BASED ON PS NUMBERS...I raised Alex's dose by .15 this morning based on good solid data and advice. Guess what..he broke this morning and by +4 he dropped to 38. If I hadn't been home he might have had seizured and ...well my ex is a vet and last summer I worked for him for the whole summer. I saw a cat come in seizuring from a hypo. The cat lost so much oxygen to his brain that he had to be put down after 3 days of trying to see if he would come around. Another couple with a diabetic cat was doing what you are. Changing the dose almost every day. They also came in with their adorable cat practically dead. they left for Europe for a month and my ex got this cat back to health and started all over with him and got him to his correct dose of insulin. He went home a month later with his 'family'. He was dead 24 hours later because they started screwing around with his dose again.
As far as shooting at 62...you made that part of the protocol up. You waited until it was on the rise? So if he was at 30..it would have been okay to shoot at 34? It's supposed to be a natural rise caused by his own body anyway. Not a food induced rise which this was. A food induced rise is not 'real' and he can drop just as fast again. Did you know that? Shooting 2.25 at 62 is not following protocol FOR YOU since 62 is nowhere near normal for your cat. You have no idea what normal is for your cat because you can't calm down long enough to find out. YOU should never shoot a number under 150 at this point because you have no idea how Smokey is going to react. Denne, you don't know enough about Feline Diabetes to be making medical judgments at this point. Things can and do change quickly with diabetes. This morning with Alex is a perfect example and I usually know what is going to happen with him. I have been taking care of his diabetes for almost 2 years. I know you love Smokeybut let me put this bluntly...do you want to hurt him? or worse? You are headed that way whether you know it or not. You are playing Russian Roulette with his life.
I just gave you good solid information.I am not chastising you nor am I judging you. We all want to help you but you are scaring us. We are scared for Smoky.
Every time I see you write that you have done something 'according to protocol" I want to eat my hair because you have maybe followed protocol once and that is when you didn't shoot at 65 back on April 17th. This is not all your fault because your vet was giving you incorrect advice about Lantus back when. But not now. Protocol says that you need spot checks to gather data and then act upon that data. What's really odd is that for the few days that you have been collecting data, you've totally ignored protocol.
If Smokey bounces again tomorrow...and I'm quite sure he will..it is because of what you are doing. If Lantus doesn't help him..it's because you aren't letting it. You need to stop being obsessive and if he goes high let it happen. Check for ketones. Spot check. Let us help you find the right dose for your cat. I don't want to see you posting that Smokey is at 10 and having seizures and you don't know what to do. The whole idea of this "Protocol" and home testing is to keep your cat safe. You can't do that if you randomly decide what's best for him based on the fact that you don't like the numbers on the chart. Seriously...I am not being mean. I am being honest.
When you are ready to be helped...really helped, everyone will be there for you. I just hope it's not too late as you are messing around with things you apparently just don't understand. :-|
I don't mean to be a pain but... what do you think you are doing "according to protocol"? I just read your spreadsheet and not only are you not taking advice from any of us who are trying to help you, but you are REALLY not doing anything according to protocol accept for the way that your mind is filtering it. You changed his dose to what you wanted to change it to and that makes 6 times in 3 days. 6 dosecreases in 3 days!!!!
This is the protocol for increasing doses: " Most cats need to have their dose increased. Do it in 0.25 IU or 0.5 IU steps (0.25 IU if the cat is getting a low dose and/or relatively low BGs, 0.5 IU if the cat is getting a higher dose and/or relatively high BGs). Hold each dose for 5-7 days. However, if the cat is producing continuously high BGs (nadir always >=300 mg/dl), only hold the dose for 2-3 days before increasing it by 0.5 IU. Alternatively, if the cat is continuously producing moderately elevated BGs (nadir always >=200 mg/dl), increase the dose every 2-3 days by 0.25 IU ( if the cat is getting a low dose) or 0.5 IU (if the cat is getting a higher dose). From this point onward test for ketones once per week, or more often if the nadirs are still >=200 mg/dl.
Many cats will occasionally react to an increased dose with increased BGs - within the first 2 to 3 days after an increase, usually lasting for less than 24 hours. Nobody really knows what the reason for this phenomenon is (perhaps a "panicky liver"?) - hold the dose and ignore the fluctuations.
You stayed at 2.50 this morning in spite of what I'm sure you read and Thank God Smokey is okay since you had no idea what his nadirs are for the most part because you spot checked him for like 3 days.....DOSING IS NOT BASED ON PS NUMBERS...I raised Alex's dose by .15 this morning based on good solid data and advice. Guess what..he broke this morning and by +4 he dropped to 38. If I hadn't been home he might have had seizured and ...well my ex is a vet and last summer I worked for him for the whole summer. I saw a cat come in seizuring from a hypo. The cat lost so much oxygen to his brain that he had to be put down after 3 days of trying to see if he would come around. Another couple with a diabetic cat was doing what you are. Changing the dose almost every day. They also came in with their adorable cat practically dead. they left for Europe for a month and my ex got this cat back to health and started all over with him and got him to his correct dose of insulin. He went home a month later with his 'family'. He was dead 24 hours later because they started screwing around with his dose again.
As far as shooting at 62...you made that part of the protocol up. You waited until it was on the rise? So if he was at 30..it would have been okay to shoot at 34? It's supposed to be a natural rise caused by his own body anyway. Not a food induced rise which this was. A food induced rise is not 'real' and he can drop just as fast again. Did you know that? Shooting 2.25 at 62 is not following protocol FOR YOU since 62 is nowhere near normal for your cat. You have no idea what normal is for your cat because you can't calm down long enough to find out. YOU should never shoot a number under 150 at this point because you have no idea how Smokey is going to react. Denne, you don't know enough about Feline Diabetes to be making medical judgments at this point. Things can and do change quickly with diabetes. This morning with Alex is a perfect example and I usually know what is going to happen with him. I have been taking care of his diabetes for almost 2 years. I know you love Smokeybut let me put this bluntly...do you want to hurt him? or worse? You are headed that way whether you know it or not. You are playing Russian Roulette with his life.
I just gave you good solid information.I am not chastising you nor am I judging you. We all want to help you but you are scaring us. We are scared for Smoky.
Every time I see you write that you have done something 'according to protocol" I want to eat my hair because you have maybe followed protocol once and that is when you didn't shoot at 65 back on April 17th. This is not all your fault because your vet was giving you incorrect advice about Lantus back when. But not now. Protocol says that you need spot checks to gather data and then act upon that data. What's really odd is that for the few days that you have been collecting data, you've totally ignored protocol.
If Smokey bounces again tomorrow...and I'm quite sure he will..it is because of what you are doing. If Lantus doesn't help him..it's because you aren't letting it. You need to stop being obsessive and if he goes high let it happen. Check for ketones. Spot check. Let us help you find the right dose for your cat. I don't want to see you posting that Smokey is at 10 and having seizures and you don't know what to do. The whole idea of this "Protocol" and home testing is to keep your cat safe. You can't do that if you randomly decide what's best for him based on the fact that you don't like the numbers on the chart. Seriously...I am not being mean. I am being honest.
When you are ready to be helped...really helped, everyone will be there for you. I just hope it's not too late as you are messing around with things you apparently just don't understand. :-|
- Status