Skin/Licking Issues

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Erimess & Sammy (GA)

Member Since 2010
I would swear you used to have a forum for non-diabetic health stuff so feel a little weird posting this here, but it does say "all" health posts. I'll try to make this shorter but succinctness is not my strong point. (As any of you old-timers who might recognize me may remember.)

I'll shorten the background. My one cat Pounce has had some dry skin issues and gone through scratching spells. Last spring the cats got fleas - they're not outdoors but occasionally pick them up elsewhere. I did two months of Frontline (which has worked in the past) but didn't quite do the job this time, so spent some time religiously combing them both and pretty well got the fleas under control. But this isn't about the fleas...

So it turns out Pounce seems to have a sensitivity to the fleas (apparently more common with him already having dry skin) and he had bumps and was licking a lot. Once I got the fleas under control he stopped for a while, or at least slowed down. He wasn't getting the little red spots from the fleas and fur started to grow back, so me and the vet felt this was under control and heading the right direction. But...

Not three weeks later he was licking again, and worse this time. There's bumps from scabs, but not seeing the red places like when he had the fleas. So I don't know if this has become habit or something? He has suddenly gotten thinnish on the whole back half, and is now over-licking down his legs, and keeps losing weight. So what was heading the right direction has just taken a complete turn-around.

I already know my vet's next step is going to be steroids and I'm trying to avoid that (I sworn I'd never end up with a diabetic again!). I've looked online for more natural treatments. I have read about some supplements just to support the immune system, including omegas. And I was reading about some spray stuff for the skin just to make these sores feel better and hopefully prevent them licking so much. Unfortunately everything I read about is mostly from places trying to sell me something, so having a tough time knowing what try try, and mostly looking for suggestions.

Just as helpful information... I once tried salmon oil for his skin but he wanted no part of that and I've tried about every way of getting it on/in him. I tried putting it directly on his skin, but he just licks more and it causes more problems. (He also smells it coming from a mile off and won't even let me near him with the stuff.) I don't know if all oils are going to be like that. I can syringe liquids in him, but that stuff is really sticky and he hates it so much. So something less sticky or that can be crushed in water would work. I prefer staying away from pilling him. And... I can do shots. :-) Some supplements come in injectible forms and I'd be fine with that as long as it's sub-q. (I still have almost a full box of needles.)

He tends to just lick more if I try sticking anything on him cause he wants it off, so wondering if there really is something I can put on him that he's not going to mind and will actually make him feel better and help heal this stuff.

If anything needs a prescription that shouldn't be a problem as long as it's not weird or dangerous.

(I tried going to holisticat and was not happy to see the forums now seem to be paid-members only.)
 
Is the licking/fur thinning the same on each side of the body? If so that wold indicate an allergic component since that is almost all the time bilateral.
Sometimes an over the counter antihistamine helps. I would discuss that with your vet.
 
It's mostly the same, yes. We believe he had a reaction to the fleas. But he slowed down the licking once the fleas were under control, and it was a while later that he started this up again, possibly exacerbated by the cold weather. (He wasn't back to normal yet from the fleas so was probably more susceptible to things like the dryness.) Since he already has dry issues, somewhere I think I need to address that and immune-system support.

In the immediate, I want to deal with the symptoms. I don't have an issue discussing an antihistamines with my vet, but I think I'd call that a "if something else doesn't work" thing to try (leaving steroids as last resort). I've heard of sprays that can be used - don't remember what that was (I'm trying to do some more research - my bad that I didn't bookmark some of this stuff), but I'm sure that whatever place recommended it was also selling it. I'm tending to be leary of stuff to put on him, cause anything I've put on him he's wanted to just lick back off, and lick and lick. It would have to be something he doesn't mind.

I've also heard of evening primrose oil, but no clue how well that works, where to get it (many places online are expensive), etc. But that sounds like something I could use more longer term as a preventive. Plus some kind of supplements - and again, pretty much most of what I read is either non-specific (i.e. what supplements?) or the place trying to sell it. I couldn't use the salmon oil. I saw tuna oil suggested somewhere but don't know where to get that but a can of tuna. (And while he likes salmon, he wanted nothing to do with salmon oil, so I question tuna oil as well.)

Sorry, rambling.
 
Start with making sure the fleas are actually gone. Frontline doesn't work very well in some areas because the fleas have developed a tolerance to it. It might be worth asking for a different med from your vet (some OTC flea treatments are pretty toxic to cats).

I have a cat with hyperesthesia and seizures. I know some cats, even if the flea load is very low, can have hyperestesia from the overreaction to the fleas, flea wastes, and irritation from bites. This looks like skin rolling, biting the skin, chasing things that aren't there, licking so much that bald spots/wounds form. This can progress into seizures or seizure-like behaviors in some sensitive cats.

The treatment first is to make sure 100% of fleas are gone. Most of the time this improves the symptoms if it's hyperesthesia. Some vets use anti-seizure meds and meds for the skin irritation as well.
 
Hi!
You could try Vetericyn spray, an over-the-counter product for wound and skin care. It's safe for cats and other animals to lick and non-toxic. My daughter has used it on her animals (cats, dogs, horses) for some years. I have used it on my cats with good results. You can get it as a watery-type spray or gel-type spray. The gel might work best for you as it will stick to a specific area more then the watery spray. Amazon sells it, as do many pet stores.
Best wishes,
Sophie & Pudge (GA)
 
Thanks for responses...

Last two times there were fleas the vet was using Advantage and one month worked. One was the same cat. I have no idea if the Frontline just doesn't work as well. I'd be willing to try the Advantage again if I find someone who has it. (I don't know any way to be 100% sure fleas are gone.)

I was just reading about what my vet talked about, that something like this can start with a cause and then later just become a habitual compulsion, and I've even thought about stress exacerbating it and thought of trying some of the Rescue Remedy.

I can check the Vetericyn. Anyone ever heard of Rose's spray? That's one of the ones recommended by the place that sells it and that I don't trust. (Or I should say don't trust wasting the money.) I've also been reading about the antihistamines. And I read about mixing apple cider vinegar with water and dabbing that on - sounds weird but there's some people saying it works great. (Maybe I will try that on me first.) The omega's could be difficult unless I can find it in pill form. I have a bad feeling all those are going to be like the salmon oil that I couldn't get in him. And I read biotin is good for the immune system.

The antihistamines sound like a possible good first "in the immediate" way to go, just to make him feel better and hopefully curb this, and give me time to look further into the long-term. Sounds like the side effects aren't anything real serious.
 
If it's something that's just turned into a bad habit, you could try a Feliway plug-in too. I did that for Regan for a bit - she didn't have any sort of physical problem but she got stressed when we moved and started over-grooming so her fur got thin in places and her skin was getting sore.
 
Feliway also has a spray.

I would definitely try more flea treatment. I use the advantage II and it worked pretty well. This sounds like the problem I had with Hidey a few months ago. I guess me or my husband brought a flea in on us because mine are strictly in doors. For a few weeks I noticed Hidey had little scabs on his neck and at first didnt think anything of it since my cats can play rough, but it kept getting worse and worse and then almost his entire neck was hairless with scabs (kept checking for fleas and saw nothing)and one day I was putting neosporin on his neck and sure enough across runs a flea. I used flea treatment for one month during that time it was getting better. I didnt think about reapplying the flea treatment after that month and like a month and a week later I noticed the spot was coming back and found another flea. I never knew (until I posted here) that flea eggs can lay dormant for months. So now I make sure to reapply every month. Hideys neck has finally healed and grew his fur back after about 4 months of this chaos lol.

I got my advantage on Amazon. It was the cheapest I found for 6 months treatment (technically 2 since I have 3 cats lol) but I also got it from walmart and chewy.com
 
Flea eggs fall off the host, and can remain in a suspended state in areas the cat frequents. The eggs can remain for months to a year in this dormant state. Flea eggs hatch when they are exposed to vibrations or movement (ie. animals or humans disturbing them) and once adult, can jump to hosts.

It's important to keep treating a cat for fleas, because the cat will usually become reinfected due to dormant eggs. One treatment is not enough because it only kills adults. To stimulate these eggs hatching, so you can get rid of them, it's important to vacuum regularly in places the cat goes. Also, wash any of the cat's bedding and dry on high in a dryer to kill eggs.

They can be a pain to get rid of, but getting into a habit of vacuuming and combing with a flea comb to detect them can help eliminate them.

You can check for fleas with a flea comb, or by spraying the cat on the back with some water and wiping with a white towel, the towel will show blood from the flea wastes.
 
I have a cat that will lick a spot on his leg until the fur is gone, I tried all kinds of ointments, nothing helped. I've become an avid essential oil user in my everyday life and decided to try it on Goof. I put a small drop of 100% pure theraputic grade Lavender oil on the spot once or twice a day and he stopped licking. The fur grew back and he seems to have broken the habit. I also have a cat that if I use the spot-on flea and tick stuff, her fur will fall out, her skin will blister and will get very nasty. I started using the lavender around her neck very few days, 2 drops, no fleas or ticks! And no skin problems.
 
Evening primrose oil in soft gel capsules can be found at Walgreens, or most other pharmacies, for pretty cheap. If that's still too much for you to just try out, PM me your address and I'll mail you some. I tried it out myself, but it didn't work for my issue. I second the others who suggested checking closely for fleas again. Also, frontline and similar products can sometimes cause dry skin and/or itching issues just by themselves, no fleas needed.

Mogmom said:
I have a cat that will lick a spot on his leg until the fur is gone, I tried all kinds of ointments, nothing helped. I've become an avid essential oil user in my everyday life and decided to try it on Goof. I put a small drop of 100% pure theraputic grade Lavender oil on the spot once or twice a day and he stopped licking. The fur grew back and he seems to have broken the habit. I also have a cat that if I use the spot-on flea and tick stuff, her fur will fall out, her skin will blister and will get very nasty. I started using the lavender around her neck very few days, 2 drops, no fleas or ticks! And no skin problems.
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I've been really getting into essential oils myself as of late. Just remember, many essential oils can be very harmful to cats so make sure to check closely before using any new oil.

Another way to try to stop you cat from licking, at least on his front legs and stomach is to put a shirt on him that covers the affected area (long sleeves for front arm licking). My cat licked all the fur off one of his front arms from pain and made it look like someone shaved him.

I bought some cheap plain infant long sleeve tees for him and that helped. I had to take them in a bit as, by the time you get shirt big enough to not be tight in the armpits, the neck is a bit big and the sleeves a bit long. I guess babies don't keep their arms stuck out in front of them all the time (unless they're classic zombie babies and I didn't see that section in the store.) Don't get any shirts with snaps on them. Cat's hate snaps. Also, beware of searching "pet clothing" on Amazon. It's a long and scary ride.
 
Haven't been around for a few days... oh, how many things to address...

I do use a flea comb, and their "bedding" is my bed, so I just try to make sure I'm washing sheets, and vacuum. During winter I'm working on "spring cleaning" some of the more difficult areas.

I already thought of the Feliway, which I already have (the spray) because my other cat likes to pee. I just sorta forgot about it. He's never been as much into it as the cat that pees. That's why I considered something like Rescue Remedy.

If primrose oil can get gotten at Walmart, I should at least check that out. I'll have to check the price, and then let you know. :-) Sometimes putting something on him can work if I can manage to keep him distracted instead of just licking it off, like having some food ready to go, or even just petting him. And I haven't had a chance to get a hold of the vet to ask about the antihistamines, but I think a combination of stuff might be what will help. (I really wish I could find a good way to get omegas inside him - I don't suppose there's something out there that's injectible? This isn't just about fleas - he's just got skin problems.)

His back is actually getting better - very few scabs left and while it's thinnish, there's no really big bare spots. Unfortunately his back legs and feets are thin, and then the front legs. He simply seems to be moving elsewhere.
 
Erimess & Sammy (GA) said:
Haven't been around for a few days... oh, how many things to address...

I do use a flea comb, and their "bedding" is my bed, so I just try to make sure I'm washing sheets, and vacuum. During winter I'm working on "spring cleaning" some of the more difficult areas.

I already thought of the Feliway, which I already have (the spray) because my other cat likes to pee. I just sorta forgot about it. He's never been as much into it as the cat that pees. That's why I considered something like Rescue Remedy.

If primrose oil can get gotten at Walmart, I should at least check that out. I'll have to check the price, and then let you know. :) Sometimes putting something on him can work if I can manage to keep him distracted instead of just licking it off, like having some food ready to go, or even just petting him. And I haven't had a chance to get a hold of the vet to ask about the antihistamines, but I think a combination of stuff might be what will help. (I really wish I could find a good way to get omegas inside him - I don't suppose there's something out there that's injectible? This isn't just about fleas - he's just got skin problems.)

His back is actually getting better - very few scabs left and while it's thinnish, there's no really big bare spots. Unfortunately his back legs and feets are thin, and then the front legs. He simply seems to be moving elsewhere.
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bsmith said:
Evening primrose oil in soft gel capsules can be found at Walgreens, or most other pharmacies, for pretty cheap. If that's still too much for you to just try out, PM me your address and I'll mail you some. I tried it out myself, but it didn't work for my issue. I second the others who suggested checking closely for fleas again. Also, frontline and similar products can sometimes cause dry skin and/or itching issues just by themselves, no fleas needed.



I've been really getting into essential oils myself as of late. Just remember, many essential oils can be very harmful to cats so make sure to check closely before using any new oil.

Another way to try to stop you cat from licking, at least on his front legs and stomach is to put a shirt on him that covers the affected area (long sleeves for front arm licking). My cat licked all the fur off one of his front arms from pain and made it look like someone shaved him.

I bought some cheap plain infant long sleeve tees for him and that helped. I had to take them in a bit as, by the time you get shirt big enough to not be tight in the armpits, the neck is a bit big and the sleeves a bit long. I guess babies don't keep their arms stuck out in front of them all the time (unless they're classic zombie babies and I didn't see that section in the store.) Don't get any shirts with snaps on them. Cat's hate snaps. Also, beware of searching "pet clothing" on Amazon. It's a long and scary ride.
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I know what you're saying about the oils and cats, but because the oils I use are 100% pure, And because Lavender is one that's listed in the "natural" flea and tick products for cats, so I felt pretty safe with it. I'm afraid that if I put any kind of "clothing" on Goof that he'd go insane! I once put a flea collar on him and he spun in circles until I took it off, and then he gave me the dirtiest of looks !
 
Mogmom said:
I know what you're saying about the oils and cats, but because the oils I use are 100% pure, And because Lavender is one that's listed in the "natural" flea and tick products for cats, so I felt pretty safe with it. I'm afraid that if I put any kind of "clothing" on Goof that he'd go insane! I once put a flea collar on him and he spun in circles until I took it off, and then he gave me the dirtiest of looks !
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I was pretty sure that you knew about the issues surrounding the use of essential oils on cats since you've been regularly using essential oils for some time. I just wanted to put that disclaimer out there for people just starting out with essential oils who may not be aware of potential problems. Some people seem to equate any treatment that is "natural," i.e., herbs, essential oils, vitamins, and supplements of all sorts, as automatically safe, which is just not true. Cats have strange little metabolisms.

Some cats definitely play dress up better than others. When my vet first suggested that I try a long sleeve shirt on him, I had to admit that we "may" have played dress up once or twice before and he seemed okay with it. (I say Edwin likes dress up. He purrs and is totally okay with it, but my Dad said it was sick and was going to make him demented. I replied that he was already demented and that dress on him was perfectly fine as it was blue so it was appropriate for boys to wear. Plus, I dressed my male cousin up in that pink bridesmaid's dress, with matching pillbox hat, plenty of times and he turned out mostly normal.)

When I went to choose something for longer term wear I went with something a little more manly. Sorry about the resolution. Also, I took the neck in more after this picture. He's totally stopped licking now, so no more shirt, but look how proud my little goth kitty looks.
image.jpg
 
Mogmom said:
I'm afraid that if I put any kind of "clothing" on Goof that he'd go insane! I once put a flea collar on him and he spun in circles until I took it off, and then he gave me the dirtiest of looks !
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Oh, I know this one! I didn't say anything about the shirt idea cause I didn't want to start sounding defensive, but this isn't a cat you put things on. I tried a collar once and he did more than spin in circles - he went completely freakin' bonkers, you'd have thought a crab got his tail. He tore all over the house flipping out, tore at it, got part of the collar half over his front paw, making things worse, and finally ended up behind the TV where I couldn't even get him out, just ripping at that collar. I finally got a hold of him, and had a heck of time getting that off him... and promised I'd never stick anything on him again. ;) He also doesn't like climbing under the sheets with me and stuff like that. (The other cat has a field day doing that and then attacking the sheets, but she's a little silly.)

Oh, and I'm not someone who thinks just cause something is natural that makes it OK. I know that about foods and it stands to reason it'd be true of anything. (And it's true with people as well.) That's why I wanted to ask somewhere instead of just grabbing any old thing I found online.

As to that primrose oil... what's a kitty dose of that stuff? I discovered by accident today that Trader Joe's has it. One never knows if their prices are higher or lower than elsewhere. Fortunately I'm off one of my jobs next week and will have some time to really deal with this.
 
Erimess & Sammy (GA) said:
Oh, I know this one! I didn't say anything about the shirt idea cause I didn't want to start sounding defensive, but this isn't a cat you put things on. I tried a collar once and he did more than spin in circles - he went completely freakin' bonkers, you'd have thought a crab got his tail. He tore all over the house flipping out, tore at it, got part of the collar half over his front paw, making things worse, and finally ended up behind the TV where I couldn't even get him out, just ripping at that collar. I finally got a hold of him, and had a heck of time getting that off him... and promised I'd never stick anything on him again. ;) He also doesn't like climbing under the sheets with me and stuff like that. (The other cat has a field day doing that and then attacking the sheets, but she's a little silly.)

Oh, and I'm not someone who thinks just cause something is natural that makes it OK. I know that about foods and it stands to reason it'd be true of anything. (And it's true with people as well.) That's why I wanted to ask somewhere instead of just grabbing any old thing I found online.

As to that primrose oil... what's a kitty dose of that stuff? I discovered by accident today that Trader Joe's has it. One never knows if their prices are higher or lower than elsewhere. Fortunately I'm off one of my jobs next week and will have some time to really deal with this.
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I wouldn't have thought you defensive if you said that the shirt idea would not work at all for you. Some cats will tolerate that sort of thing, while other cats want absolutely nothing to do with such shenanigans. I'm entirely sure that if your cat won't even tolerate a collar that trying to put a shirt on him would be a terrible idea. Just because it worked for my cat doesn't mean that it's something that would work on or be good for your cat. I won't take offense if you tell me my ideas just won't work for your cat. After all, you know your cat and I don't.

Also, the blanket statements about essential oils and natural treatments were not directed at anyone posting on this board. The majority of the people posting here are pretty aware of such things and have educated themselves a great deal about their cat's health. I just wanted that disclaimer there for people (who are not part of the board) that might read the thread and think that if one essential oil or natural treatment is okay then all essential oils and natural treatments would be okay (even if the people who might think that are few and far between).

I'm glad you found some primrose oil at Trader Joe's. It's always a toss up on whether their prices are better or not, sometimes you win sometimes you lose, but at least they usually carry good brands and you don't have to wait for it to be shipped to you. I'm afraid my only experience with evening primrose oil was on myself. I'm not sure about how to use it for cats.
 
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There's something you need to know about "cheap" oils, they're diluted and or inferior oils, which greatly lessens their effectiveness and depending on what they're diluted with, could even make your cat sick! So please, be careful with them and don't use anything on them that you wouldn't use on yourself.
 
A while back my cat had a bad case of fleas. I tried Advantage, Advantix, and Frontline to no avail. I finally took him to the vet and they sold me Revolution. It did the trick. It is expensive though and you need a script for it. I also used a can of flea spray and repeated twice at three week intervals..
 
Critter Mom said:
Don't they just ...

I_am_dune_cat.jpg
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Sorry off topic, but the cat in the sleeve reminds me of a friend of mine whose cockatiel used to repeatedly crawl into his socks. One problem, while the bird goes very easily into the sock, the feathers go in the wrong direction for getting the bird back out of the sock. He had to cut the toes off at least a dozen socks to get that silly bird out time after time.
 
bsmith said:
I wouldn't have thought you defensive if you said that the shirt idea would not work at all for you. Some cats will tolerate that sort of thing, while other cats want absolutely nothing to do with such shenanigans. I'm entirely sure that if your cat won't even tolerate a collar that trying to put a shirt on him would be a terrible idea. Just because it worked for my cat doesn't mean that it's something that would work on or be good for your cat. I won't take offense if you tell me my ideas just won't work for your cat. After all, you know your cat and I don't.
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Yeah, but not everyone has that attitude. I've been called defensive a lot cause many don't accept that everything doesn't work for everyone. (I need to learn to just ignore things and say nothing, instead of always trying to defend myself.)

OK... off that topic... talked to my vet today. We're going to go ahead and try the Benodryl, and even though it comes in a liquid, I'm going to see how pill pockets work for Pounce. And since I take fish oil myself, and it's basically the same stuff, I'm cutting mine open and experimenting a bit to see how he does with it in his food before I waste more money. He reacted to this much better than the straight-up salmon oil. I might still try the evening primrose oil as well since it's easy to get. (Vet said only problem with antihistamines was it makes some cats foam at the mouth, and he wasn't sure how well it would work, but he did agree with what I've read, that combining with the omegas would work better.)

And he suggested just B12 for supplementing and thought it a better idea than a B complex. (I don't remember why.) And I already know I can get that injectible cause I did it with Sammy, so I also know what to get and how to convert to an insulin needle - and I had almost a full box of needles when Sammy died, so I consider that the easy part. Unfortunately many of my old bookmarked links are broken... if anyone knows a cheap, easy place to get this, great. I might check some place called Thriving Pets first.

I mentioned his back is actually getting better but that he's getting thinnish patches other places like he's just moving around, so hard to tell how he's doing overall - but, he's not puking up as many hairballs, so I take that as a good sign. He was over-grooming some last January during the really cold weather and then stopped. I have to wonder if that's what set him off again this January - especially since he's prone to skin issues. I would think omegas would help there.

Keeping fingers crossed. Anyone's certainly welcome to toss out comments (including off topic funny photos) - I might not respond to everything but I've been reading it all. Thanks for the conversation. :-)
 
Erimess & Sammy (GA) said:
Yeah, but not everyone has that attitude. I've been called defensive a lot cause many don't accept that everything doesn't work for everyone. (I need to learn to just ignore things and say nothing, instead of always trying to defend myself.)

OK... off that topic... talked to my vet today. We're going to go ahead and try the Benodryl, and even though it comes in a liquid, I'm going to see how pill pockets work for Pounce. And since I take fish oil myself, and it's basically the same stuff, I'm cutting mine open and experimenting a bit to see how he does with it in his food before I waste more money. He reacted to this much better than the straight-up salmon oil. I might still try the evening primrose oil as well since it's easy to get. (Vet said only problem with antihistamines was it makes some cats foam at the mouth, and he wasn't sure how well it would work, but he did agree with what I've read, that combining with the omegas would work better.)

And he suggested just B12 for supplementing and thought it a better idea than a B complex. (I don't remember why.) And I already know I can get that injectible cause I did it with Sammy, so I also know what to get and how to convert to an insulin needle - and I had almost a full box of needles when Sammy died, so I consider that the easy part. Unfortunately many of my old bookmarked links are broken... if anyone knows a cheap, easy place to get this, great. I might check some place called Thriving Pets first.

I mentioned his back is actually getting better but that he's getting thinnish patches other places like he's just moving around, so hard to tell how he's doing overall - but, he's not puking up as many hairballs, so I take that as a good sign. He was over-grooming some last January during the really cold weather and then stopped. I have to wonder if that's what set him off again this January - especially since he's prone to skin issues. I would think omegas would help there.

Keeping fingers crossed. Anyone's certainly welcome to toss out comments (including off topic funny photos) - I might not respond to everything but I've been reading it all. Thanks for the conversation. :)
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I've used Benadryl on Edwin before and the pink foam (cherry flavoring in the liquid) that spilled forth from his mouth was quite impressive. The first time it happened I thought that I'd killed the cat. However, I've since found that Edwin foams at the drop of a hat, even on medications that shouldn't make him foam. Hopefully your cat will be a bit more normal than mine, and only foam a bit if at all. I just keep a warm damp washcloth nearby to wipe off the drool.

I've been looking into doing B12 supplements too. I found the information on B vitamins from Tanya's CRF page to be helpful. The link to the B vitamin section is here.

I definitely get itchy in January too from the dry air and cold. However, I think that I'm much further north than you, assuming that (GA) in your name refers to Georgia. Perhaps, if your house is dry, you could try a humidifier in the room where your cat sleeps the most. Hopefully buying a humidifier in Georgia will be easier than the time I tried to buy a dehumidifier while living in New Mexico.

If you want go a bit further from conventional medicine, I've found a Bach's flower remedy mix including crab apple to be very helpful on Edwin for over grooming. In addition to Bach's Rescue Remedy, which more people have heard of, there are also individual flower remedies that you can get.

If you're going to use Bach's long term a custom mix is best. The individual remedies and their indications for pets can be found here. Luckyvitamin sells the remedies for half the price of the Bach's site. I have about a third of the individual remedies, including crab apple, and would be willing to make and send you a batch to try. To make a 30 ml bottle, it's just 2 drops of each remedy (up to 6-7), 1 tsp of glycerin, and the rest is water. You use four drops of the mixture in about a cup of drinking water and/or added to other medications four times daily. Let me know if you're interested and I'll get mixing.

I hope that your kitty gets less itchy. I had to take Benadryl every day for years because apparently grad school make me itchy. The itching can be maddening. One strange mind trick, think about apples, it seems to make the itching at least a bit better. Make sure to tell your cat that as I'm sure he'll get right on it.

Just a note: Edwin's itching, and neurotic licking, has always seemed to be more tied to individual muscle spasms. You can see the muscles jumping under his fur right before he goes nuts. This has has been going on for many years, but the licking has never reached the levels of thinning fur or bald spots. This new over grooming, and bald patches, I think was pain based, but that seems to be under control now. Anyone have any idea what the itchy muscle spasms are all about?
 
Thanks again for your response - you're pretty funny actually. We tried the Benadryl. So far this has not worked out great. He won't eat the pill pockets! I wanted to get chicken but they were on sale and the chicken gone, so got salmon. I don't know if he'd prefer chicken, or he might have just not reacted to the first pill very well and that has made him leary. (I could try the chicken and if that doesn't work, I'm sure my other cat would love to have them as a snack.) If I can get him to eat the chicken pill pockets, I might try the children's cherry flavored tabs. He never foamed at the mouth, but I could tell he wasn't thrilled and he did slobber... on my bed. :banghead:

And thanks for the links. I haven't been to Tanya's for years and never thought about it. (My CRF cat died almost 10 years ago.) It's nice to see the site still exists because it's great information. (I did finally find Scooter's CRF supply site but it only has B complex.) The fish oil has been going pretty well. I think I would be safe at this point going ahead and buying a bottle. I even squirted too much in some food today, and while he nibbled more slowly, he did still eat it. Be nice to have a dropper instead of getting that junk all over me.

By the way, the GA is Guardian Angel (Sammy). :D I'm definitely more north than that.

I know all those Bach's essenses exist. I just hear about rescue remedy all the time. I might eventually try those - honestly, I'm getting a bit overwhelmed at the moment. Especially since I haven't been able to get the Benodryl into him. I'm trying to tell myself that at least I'm getting the fish oil in him, which should help going into the future with his dry skin, regardless whether we get a flea issue again. And the B12 is easy - I'm just deciding where to get it from, and refiguring doses to confirm with my vet, and then will need the script. But I already poked him with an insulin needle to see how he'd react. He didn't even notice. (It's been many years but I've still got the touch. LOL.) And I will definitely tell him to think about apples. :cat:

You still need that Benadryl? I have a whole bottle. Maybe I can trade for some Bach's. :rolleyes: I could see how grad school would make you itchy.
 
Erimess & Sammy (GA) said:
Thanks again for your response - you're pretty funny actually. We tried the Benadryl. So far this has not worked out great. He won't eat the pill pockets! I wanted to get chicken but they were on sale and the chicken gone, so got salmon. I don't know if he'd prefer chicken, or he might have just not reacted to the first pill very well and that has made him leary. (I could try the chicken and if that doesn't work, I'm sure my other cat would love to have them as a snack.) If I can get him to eat the chicken pill pockets, I might try the children's cherry flavored tabs. He never foamed at the mouth, but I could tell he wasn't thrilled and he did slobber... on my bed. :banghead:

And thanks for the links. I haven't been to Tanya's for years and never thought about it. (My CRF cat died almost 10 years ago.) It's nice to see the site still exists because it's great information. (I did finally find Scooter's CRF supply site but it only has B complex.) The fish oil has been going pretty well. I think I would be safe at this point going ahead and buying a bottle. I even squirted too much in some food today, and while he nibbled more slowly, he did still eat it. Be nice to have a dropper instead of getting that junk all over me.

By the way, the GA is Guardian Angel (Sammy). :D I'm definitely more north than that.

I know all those Bach's essenses exist. I just hear about rescue remedy all the time. I might eventually try those - honestly, I'm getting a bit overwhelmed at the moment. Especially since I haven't been able to get the Benodryl into him. I'm trying to tell myself that at least I'm getting the fish oil in him, which should help going into the future with his dry skin, regardless whether we get a flea issue again. And the B12 is easy - I'm just deciding where to get it from, and refiguring doses to confirm with my vet, and then will need the script. But I already poked him with an insulin needle to see how he'd react. He didn't even notice. (It's been many years but I've still got the touch. LOL.) And I will definitely tell him to think about apples. :cat:

You still need that Benadryl? I have a whole bottle. Maybe I can trade for some Bach's. :rolleyes: I could see how grad school would make you itchy.
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Thanks, I try to be humorous. I have never gotten my cat to take any pill using a pill pocket. He'll eat the pill pocket alright, but he leaves a licked clean pill behind. He is very tricky.

I'm glad to hear the fish oil is at least something your cat is willing to eat. Have you noticed any difference in his fur and skin/licking issue? For B12 I went with Doctor's Best "Best Fully Avtive B12 (MethylCobalamin)." They are 1500 mcg capsules so I just give 1/3 of one. I bought them from PureFormulas.com. I really like PureFormulas and I have bought many other things from them.

After saying the thing about Georgia, I started to realize that a lot of people seemed to be using GA in their names or signatures. Can you tell that I'm still new here? Maybe Georgia is where the cats all go; fairly temperate weather, peach trees to lounge under, plenty of bugs and mice to chase, and other such things.

I'm well stocked up on Benadryl here. I don't take it every day anymore, but I still require the economy sized bottle. Let me know if you're interested in the Bach's.
 
BJM said:
Twitchiness can be feline hyperesthesia, among other things.
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Wow, you are good. I looked it up and, sure enough, these are the exact symptoms Edwin has been having for years. I just thought he was a bit nutty (and there might have been some joking about the devil poking and chasing him.)

It even explains why he sometimes howls at nothing for no reason. I'll go to see what's going on and there will be nothing there. I just joke with him that "Timmy must have fell in the well." (Remember on the TV show Lassie how Lassie would always come home barking up a storm when Timmy would get himself in a scrape?) That darn Timmy falls in the well all the time around here.

The first video on this page shows exactly how Edwin acts, minus the batting at hallucinations. Being that this is possibly a seizure related disorder, it also illuminates some other behavior that I have noticed since starting Edwin on Tramadol. While he is falling asleep the muscles in his body will tighten up and then release. This cycle continues to repeat even after he is asleep. It doesn't feel like muscles spasming, but it does feel like something that could be seizure related.

This muscle tightening started after begining him on Tramadol, which is a medication known to lower the seizure threshold. I'm now seriously wondering if I should try switching him to gabapentin for his pain instead. Gabapentin has the added benefit of raising the seizure threshold. Though, interestingly enough and befuddlingly, the frequency of Edwin's feline hyperesthesia attacks seems less since he started the Tramadol.
 
I'm sorry I'm so late on this. I haven't been on the board much with caring for this sick, senior stray cat who showed up on my doorstep a few weeks ago. Tramadol has been known to cause some WONKY behavior in cats, which is why I still have a full bottle in my fridge and won't use it. Gabapentin did very little for Penny's spinal arthritis pain, and a RARE side effect is blood sugar fluctuations. I personally feel it was the gabapentin and not her arthritis that took her out of remission, but MANY sugar cats have tolerated it very well. As far as behavior, Penny did tolerate it well. She was a little sleepy at first but other than that she acted no different. No wonkiness or anything (besides her usual antics lol) I feel it would be worth a shot, but TWO THINGS I MUST MENTION THAT NOBODY TOLD ME:

1. A RARE side effect of gabapentin is blood glucose fluctuations, so monitor BGs closely.
2. IF you decide to treat kitty with gaba and decide to stop using it, DO NOT take kitty abruptly off of it. Doing so can cause rebound pain and seizures! Apparently, in humans, withdrawal from gabapentin is worse than benzodiazapine (valium/xanax) withdrawal, which is just as bad as opiate withdrawal, so taper off VERY SLOWLY! It took me over 3 months to taper Penny off from 70mg twice per day!

Also if you get it compounded (it's VERY bitter, even compounded with fish/marshmallow...horrible) make the compound is UNSWEETENED. Wedgewood gave me a sweetened compound even though my vet assured me she asked for unsweetened and Wedgewood lied to me about it at first, so know what you're getting with these compounding pharmacies!
 
RobynWilson said:
I'm sorry I'm so late on this. I haven't been on the board much with caring for this sick, senior stray cat who showed up on my doorstep a few weeks ago. Tramadol has been known to cause some WONKY behavior in cats, which is why I still have a full bottle in my fridge and won't use it. Gabapentin did very little for Penny's spinal arthritis pain, and a RARE side effect is blood sugar fluctuations. I personally feel it was the gabapentin and not her arthritis that took her out of remission, but MANY sugar cats have tolerated it very well. As far as behavior, Penny did tolerate it well. She was a little sleepy at first but other than that she acted no different. No wonkiness or anything (besides her usual antics lol) I feel it would be worth a shot, but TWO THINGS I MUST MENTION THAT NOBODY TOLD ME:

1. A RARE side effect of gabapentin is blood glucose fluctuations, so monitor BGs closely.
2. IF you decide to treat kitty with gaba and decide to stop using it, DO NOT take kitty abruptly off of it. Doing so can cause rebound pain and seizures! Apparently, in humans, withdrawal from gabapentin is worse than benzodiazapine (valium/xanax) withdrawal, which is just as bad as opiate withdrawal, so taper off VERY SLOWLY! It took me over 3 months to taper Penny off from 70mg twice per day!

Also if you get it compounded (it's VERY bitter, even compounded with fish/marshmallow...horrible) make the compound is UNSWEETENED. Wedgewood gave me a sweetened compound even though my vet assured me she asked for unsweetened and Wedgewood lied to me about it at first, so know what you're getting with these compounding pharmacies!
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Thanks for the reply. The BG fluctuations from gabapentin would be very concerning to me as Edwin just went into remission last week. I am aware of the need to taper off gabapentin as I have first hand experience with it. Most drugs that are in actuality seizure medications, even if they are not being used as such, will ALWAYS need to be tapered. However, I'm pretty sure that may be one of those things that vets may not be aware of or may forget to inform their clients about.

What are the wonky side effects that you've seen from tramadol? The main one I've seen from Edwin is mostly from the bad taste. He foams at the mouth, though this is a good part psychosomatic as he now starts foaming BEFORE I give him any medication. Adding B12 methylcobalamin to the yogurt I mix it with and refrigerating it ahead of time really helps with the taste. The tramadol mix sometimes makes him vomit right after administration, but I'm betting that's from the taste and the fact is that he's always been a pukey cat (only when his BG is normal, when he had higher BG numbers he totally stopped throwing up.)

Only recently have I noticed another side effect. I had lowered his dosage for a few days because of all the vomiting right after. After doing this, he now sometimes seems a bit confused and wobbly for a couple of minutes after I give him his tramadol. Then it passes and he's totally normal. I'm only continuing to give the tramadol to him since I've seen how much a reduced dosage (or no dosage) really ups his pain again. Watching him try to get into a sitting position is painful to see as you can see how much his hips are hurting him. Therefore it's back on Tramadol twice a day we go. We've already tried buprenorphine, didn't help and made him stare into the distance a lot, and I'm definitely rethinking even trying gabapentin now.
 
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