should I take my kitty off vetsulin for a day? or more?

[Stellasmom]

my kitty was diagnosed almost 3 weeks ok. she's been on vetsulin just about a week, i unit. i noticed from day one that her mannerisms changed. she became lethargic and unable to move easily. as the week progressed things did not get better. she is 8 and weighs 11.5 lbs. her manner is a bit feral to most everyone else but she is kind and loving to me. i am new to diabetes and I didn't know these physical changes aren't really normal. Still on 1 unit, saturday about 3 hours after her shot i couldn't find her. i finally found her under my bed. She could not move her legs or raise her head and could barely meow. i immediately pulled her out and went and grabbed the emergency items I had read here to have on hand and used some honey mixed in with a little food and she did eat. i followed it up with some regular pate that she normally eats. she was shaky and i thought for the first time that I was going to have to put my baby down. I didn't know what I was doing wrong to have Stella react so badly to the insulin. After talking it out with someone who is on the board i went down to half a unit last night. Her reaction was much the same - though she was in the bed with me and I had set alarms to check on her. This time I gave her some gravy fancy feast not even half a can and after about 30 min she was settling in a more normal manner. Today I was not going back to the full unit. i did half again right at breakfast. Within 2 or so hours she had gotten lethargic and laid on the floor with her head in my hand for a while. Again wondering what I could be doing wrong. she couldn't even jump a short distance I had to lift her up. So out came the other half a can of the gravr fancy feast. withing about 30 minutes she was walking but she has stayed close to me all day. I went to the first vet who ran the tests that said she was diabetic. it was almosy $500. Then he wabted $291 more to run a glucosamine test and I couldn't afford it so he said she was healthy otherwise so I could wait a little bit to take the test. That vet was 30 min from my house so I needed to find someone closer which is how i got the vetsulin. He explained nothing to me except how to give the shot and when.
Because of Stella's reaction to even half a dose I would like to take her completely off of it and get the ketone strips until around the 9th when I get my money in. At the very least, I am having a medical procedure done Tuesday morning and will be out for 4 hours right during the time Stella usually has her bad times. I am trying to find a vet that will prescribe Lantus or something similar. There is something going off with the vetsulin and my kitty. I don't want any more of it in her.

 

[mosi_yazhi]

Hey!

I'm EXTREMELY new to this as well, but here's my bare-bones advice:

Get a glucometer, ASAP, if you dont have one already! It's a device that will read your cats blood sugar. You load a strip into the device, prick your cat's ear with a sterile lancet to get a drop of blood, touch the strip to the drop of blood, and it will tell you where your cat's sugars are.

Do this everytime, before you inject insulin. It's actually kind of dangerous to inject insulin without knowing where your cats blood sugars are at.

If you're in the US and near a Walmart, the Walmart brand glucometer and strips are the most cost effective and cheapest, allowing you to test your cat more frequently. They're called Reli-on. They also have lancets there, that I mentioned.

The order should be this:
Take away kitty's food at least 2 hours before glucose test.
Test her sugars.
Feed her (make sure she eats a good amount!)
30 minutes after feeding, inject insulin.

On the front page [felinediabetes.com], there's links and advice on how to do all this on the right hand side of the page. Read all of them! Kitty might dislike testing at first, and you'll definitely kind of suck at it the first few weeks, but will both get used to it (especially if you bribe them with a treat, before and after testing!)

Once you get into the habit of checking her sugars, you'll also want to test AFTER she's had her shot, to make sure the insulin isnt taking her too low (called doing a 'curve') Vetsulin is a particularly harsh insulin, as I've also found out. Lantus is the better option, yes, but people have had success with Vetsulin, they just have to be careful with it.

Aside from keeping kitty safe, testing at home and doing curves is actually the cheapest option in the long run, because you're not paying a vet to do it, and you'll avoid emergency situations that might have you taking her in when she goes hypo (too low on sugars)

I'm sorry this happened to you. I get how overwhelming it all is! I've also accidentally given my cat too much insulin, and saw her get lethargic and get the energy zapped out of her. It's scary, and overwhelming, but you can get through this.

There are other, more experienced members here, and they can give you more in-depth advice once you have started testing.

Make sure to go to your profile and update it with your and kitty's name, date of diagnosis, the brand of insulin and how many units, what you're feeding kitty, any medical issues, and (once you start testing) a spreadsheet that will help track her numbers.

(If I'm wrong about any of this, feel free to correct me!)

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Welcome to FDMB!

Betty reached out and asked that I check in with you. There are a few things that will help you and Stella. First, can you put together a shopping list? You will need a glucometer to test Stella's blood so you will know if your kitty's numbers are running low. Many people here use the Relion brand meter from Walmart. You will also need lancets to poke Stella along the rim of the ear. Try to find 28 gauge lancets. Once your cat's capillary bed builds up, you can use a thinner gauge lancet. Ketostix are also a way to test your cat's using to make sure ketones are not developing. We are huge supporters of home testing. This is a post that includes links and videos on home testing. Would it be possible for your to get a glucometer tomorrow? The best way to keep Stella safe it to test. It's also the best way for us to be able to guide you.

Vetsulin is a fast-acting, harsh insulin that can drop a cat's blood glucose numbers quickly. It''s important to have fed your cat about 20 - 30 min before you give an injection. This is the link to our Beginners Guide for Caninsulin/Vetsulin. It should provide you with more information than it sounded like your vet gave you. Just one additional point about Vetsulin. The American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA) no longer recommends Vetsulin for the treatment of feline diabetes. It does not have the duration necessary for a cat's fast metabolism. They recommend either Lantus (glargine) or Prozinc. We can provide you with the AAHA Guidelines if you need to give them to your vet. Lantus is widely available but expensive. Most people here purchase it through Canada at Mark's Marine Pharmacy. By any chance, have your tried contacting Betty's vet? It's possible that Diabetic Cats In Need (DCIN) may be able to help you with the cost for Lantus or send you a single pen to tide you over if you can get a prescription.

By any chance, did you change Stella's diet when you found out she was diabetic? Some cats have a marked change in their blood glucose levels when they are switched to a low (less than 10%) carbohydrate diet. It's also quite possible that your cat's numbers were elevated due to being stressed from being at the vet's office. Oops -- I just saw your previous post. The change in diet may have dropped Stella's numbers.

From what it sounds like, your vet diagnosed Stella based on her BG numbers at the office. The most reliable way to make a diagnosis is with a fructosamine test. The price your vet quoted is ridiculous. Even at Michigan State University at their Vet lab, the cost is $42.00 (it doesn't include the cost of a blood draw).

it sounds like Stella's numbers are dropping low in response to insulin. If you can home test, it will be the best way to know that for sure.

 

[Stellasmom]

thanks for the responses. Betty actually helped me set up a shopping list yesterday and I went and got everything to record my numbers. Tonight when I tried on Stella it was a complete fail. I obviously need to watch more videos. Because I'm have the medical procedure Tuesday I have to go tomorrow and get a covid test - both are scheduled right when Stella has been getting hit hardest hit by these symptoms, I think I have to leave her off the shots Monday and Tuesday, There is no one here who can watch her and I can't go into this procedure worrying she's going to be in such bad shape all alone.The vet was no help whatsoever - he explained nothing. I'm going to call him and tell him she's been on reduced amounts since Saturday and that I plan to not shoot for 2 days because of her symptoms. I will hopefully get the hang of checking numbers soon. I'm having a colonoscopy so I have a lot of prep to do myself. I'm in remission from cancer for 2 years and Stella has been my cheering section thru all my tests and surgeries etc and I want to be there for her too in whatever way I can. I'm just learning slow.

 

[bettyandhank]

Thanks Sienne! So to clarify, Stella was DX'd almost 3 weeks ago VIA fructosamine as part of a full lab workup. She was not ready to start insulin, and wanted to try diet change first. Also this vet would not prescribe insulin without doing an in-office curve (typical) which Tommie realizes can produce skewed numbers due to in-office stress, aside from the additional expense. She contacted me and I sent her immediately to FDMB, and to catinfo.org for the charts and to read up on the diet aspects. She was planning to hold off on insulin to see how the diet change did, when Stella suddenly had some unrelated issues (constipation for several days,and then stopped peeing). So that required a a vet visit, and she wanted to try to find someone closer. The other vet was someone her recently relocated daughter had seen.but was far away- 30+ minutes. She punted on someone with good reviews but clearly landed with a really old school guy, he'd been in practice 50 years, was not up to date, stubborn and brief. he prescribed vetsulin, gave brief instruction on injections and sent her on her way without much else...., except an antibiotic, with no clue as to why. She has been giving those for the last several days. She does have a meter, just got it last night and hasn't yet done a test. So she has all the supplies now, the right food, strips, HC and MC for emergencies.
The episodes Stella had were pretty intense it sounds like. It does sound like she went way too low. BUT, i also think getting a confirmation of DX is important.Vet#2 did no testing at all, just went off her labs.
She wants Lantus, just cannot do much until the first week of May about finding a vet, I will help her with that part. She's already $750 iin on these 2 visits. She could use some guidance on what to do in the interim, whether to drop the dose, or just stop dosing altogether and start over with another vet in a couple weeks. She has a procedure that will mean being out of the house for a big chunk of Tuesday and is worried about leaving Stella with so much going on.
Tommie understands the importance of testing, and now has the supplies to do so, just has to get the hang of it and start. But I know nothing about vetsulin and am way too rusty and out of the loop to be giving dosing advice or such. And so much else may have changed since I was here and active. She is just new and overwhelmed and I appreciate y'all keeping an eye out. Hope that clarifies a little.

Oh, Stella had been feral, so she literally will let no one handle her aside from her Mom, runs and hides if any other human is near.

Thanks Y'all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



PS: Betty has no vet because NO KITTIES, ATM!! Can you believe it?!!! But I'll give her a list of several I know of, who are reputable and more up to date, and she can call to ask questions and get a feel for who she connects with.

 

[bettyandhank]

Looks like Tommie Lyn was posting same time as me. Right now she most needs some guidance on what to do about the vetsulin in the interim, whether to cut back, just skip these couple days then resume, or just stop giving altogether until she can get to a new vet beginning of June and get better insulin once she is paid. Wisdom?

 

[Stellasmom]

Thanks Betty for filling in the gaps my exhausted brain just couldn't get out. I did not give the .50 shot last night. Stella had one of her feral moments and when I can't get close to her without bloood being drawn I have to step back. I just think her poor little body is exhausted. I've got to master this checking numbers thing asap. At bedtime she was her usual sweet self and hopped on the bed and slept up against my side and across my legs like she does when things are normal. I did not shoot this morning either. I have to be at the hospital at 11 which means leaving right around the time she normally starts to crater. I'm $850+ into this and I've learned more from Betty and this board than either of the 2 vets I've been to. Betty has been my cheerleader and my conscience keeping me going when I can't possibly take in one more bit of information. But she had me get Stella off dry food within the first few days of her dx. That saved us I think, that's one reason I so desperately want to know her numbers. Stella is so high strung they had to sedate her for that initial apt so she was highly stressed. I had just taken her in for an 8 yr old well check, teeth, etc. There was nothing going on then all of a sudden we have diabetes. That first apt was $491. I am very hesitant to go back on the vesulin again. I'm no expert except on my baby Stella and it was off from the beginning at 1 unit, and stilll off when I went to .5 units as well. I will wait for the vet list from Betty and start making calls. My finances mean I have to wait til about the 9th or 10th to get her in but i will get the ketone strips and learn to use those too. The first vet said she was healthy except for the diabetes so that makes me feel better. If my decision to take her off insulin complletely seems too extreme please chime in. I just know if she is truly diabetic, she needs to be on something other than vetsulin.