Should I have given my cat insulin??

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researcheresk

Member Since 2014
I brought my newly diagnosed cat home yesterday and they have me giving her 2 units of Novolin N twice a day. I checked her glucose last night and it was @ 300 so I gave her the recommended dose. This morning I checked it and it was 156. I was worried that 2 units might be too much so I gave her .5. Should I have given her anything?? I just came upon this site and one post said 150 was a "no shot limit" for a few of the insulin types. So i'm worried that I should not have given her anything at all.
 
You reduced the dose which was wise. I would get a test in an hour, to see where her numbers are headed. N is not a favored insulin here; it has a fast onset and a steep drop in most cats and doesn't last as long as other insulins. But the fact that you are hometesting is a huge bonus. I'd get some numbers today and if she drops down into the 50 range, post for help.

We generally advise new diabetics not to shoot under 200 until they have tested long enough to have the data they need to know how their cat will react. Your low preshot this number and the unusually long cycle means a dose reduction is definitely needed for the next shot.

Is there any chance you can get another insulin? Novolin N is hard to regulate with and creates a roller coaster effect of highs and lows which can make the cat feel awful.
 
I read several places where they said to stay away from Novolin, so I was going to call the vet first thing Monday morning and see if I could get her on Lantus and if not I was going to take her to another vet Thursday.
 
Generally we consider a cat regulated if they are in the mid200s at preshot and in double digits at nadir, but not below 50 -which is hypo territory. 40-120 is the range for a cat in remission, off insulin.

We like mild long lasting insulins like Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc.
 
How do you know when they go into remission? So, since we are new to this if my Mia cat is below 200, i shouldnt give her any insulin? Just write it in my log... I just keep testing her until she goes above and then give her the recommended 2 units? Or more like my opinion on the dosage. So, i'm basically watching to see a pattern in how my insulin works with Mia. How often should I be testing her to pick up this pattern? It still breaks my heart a little to prick her ear. :sad:
 
Nadir is the peak of insulin action, aka the lowest point in the cycle, tends to be about 5-7 (avg six) hours after the shot with most insulins. With Novolin tho, I believe it is a much shorter acting insulin (cat metabolism tends to burn thru it pretty fast, but some cats do fine on it), although I do not know the 'typical' nadir time for Novolin, sorry.
 
How do you know when they go into remission? So, since we are new to this if my Mia cat is below 200, i shouldnt give her any insulin? Just write it in my log... I just keep testing her until she goes above and then give her the recommended 2 units? Or more like my opinion on the dosage. So, i'm basically watching to see a pattern in how my insulin works with Mia. How often should I be testing her to pick up this pattern? It still breaks my heart a little to prick her ear.

If she is under 200 at preshot, wait 20 minutes (without feeding because food raises the number) and retest. If she is rising and above 200, then shoot but maybe a little less than the previous shot (because that previous dose gave you an unshootable preshot)

Use our spreadsheet instead (if you need help, send me a private message and I'll get it going for you). Choose the pm button in the bottom left hand corner of this post. Our ss is a google doc that can be shared with everyone here. That way, when you need immediate advice, we can see your recent history of numbers and doses. Yes, you are looking for patterns. (if I got this preshot and shot this amount, this was the nadir and the next preshot. So it was too much, too little or just right)

Read MamaLou's thread yesterday. She is using your insulin, couldn't get a preshot, shot and got a 37 an hour later. Cat could have died. A little prick on the ear is much better. :-D

Remission is 14 days without insulin in the range of 40-120 with the majority of the time in double digits.
 
"Typical" nadir or low or peak for Novolin N is around +3, that is 3 hours after the shot. Some cats are earlier, some cats are later.

With the NPH type insulins, Novolin being one of them, it's very important to test first, then feed, then wait a minimum of 30-45 minutes before you give the insulin. This is so you know the food will stay down, not be vomited and to give the food time to start to be digested so it can counteract the fast, steep drops of that insulin type.

Good article by DCIN on How do I get Lantus Insulin Less Expensively?

There are 3 keys to getting our diabetic kitties feeling better and getting them regulated.
1. A good insulin. Like Lantus, Levimir or Prozinc
2. Low carb canned food like Friskies pate style, Fancy Feast pate style, Wellness Grain free canned food.
3. Home testing. So you know how your cat reacts to the insulin.
 
I has been right at 3 hours since I gave her the .5 Novolin and she is now @ 77. Should I test her in another few hours or watch her closely until the next 12 hour mark (by vet) which will be right at 9:00 pm. She is on a low carb diet also.
 
Since we really don't know her nadir, I'd test again in 30-45 minutes. This is a nice number, but she could go lower. Or she could start to rise. Either way, you'll get an idea of how her cycle might look. And if she drops below 50, you'll want to intervene with food.
 
It wouldn't hurt to test again around the +3.5 and also the +4 mark. You are still in the early data gathering stage, to find out how your cat reacts to this insulin, when the low or nadir is, what the duration is, what the onset is.

You might also think of testing around the +6 hour mark. This will help you to start to see what the duration might be, if you can test around the time when most cats on the Novolin have the BG start to shoot back up, which is the 6-8 hour time frame.

You might want to read this Humulin N Primer
 
Ok, I tested her last night it was 403...tested again and it was 484. I'm thinking my meter is crap so my husband is bringing home another (ACCU-CHEK Aviva) this evening. I gave her 2 unit. I left out some dry for her yesterday and I think that brought it up last night so today I started her on nothing but canned (which she's eating now).In the mean time, i've got to use it. So, this morning it was 42/44. I know that is low so do i need to give her anything? She's acting like her usual self, no staggaring or sleepy. Unfortunately I don't have any higher carb canned food so should i just let her lick some honey or syrup? or just test her again in a few to see if its going down or up? I'm really confused because it was so high and i gave her 2 units how it could go so low. Saturday it was 300, gave her 2, and she woke up to 156.
 
Yes. Those are low numbers. Do you have any gravy foods? If so, pour some gravy off the food and give her a tablespoon or so. Test again in 20 minutes.

I would start a new thread with a 911 so people can help if she drops lower.
 
The scary part is that she is that low so long after her shot. N traditionally wears off about 8 hours after the shot, so not only is she getting long cycles , but she may have dropped even lower overnight. (or she may have gone steadily down - geeting more numbers will help you see which.)

She probably bounced up to the higher number last night. Her liver sensed a lower number than she was used to yesterday, and released extra sugars. This is a very common phenomena. I think she needs a lower dose overall.
 
I don't have any food with gravy, but i'll get some this evening. I gave her a little syrup. So i'll check again in 20 minutes.
 
Ok i'm flipping completely out!! I used my last strip and had a freaking error! I'm calling around locally trying to find the freakin strips for the crappy meter I have and they either don't sell it or are out. What?? So i'm getting dressed to head out and get a new meter instead of waiting till this evening. All I had on hand was some pancake syrup so I let her lick some of it, probably about a teaspoon if that...I know it has lower carbs than honey and Karo...should she lick a little more?
 
How long will you be gone? If it's not a 5 minute trip, I'd be tempted to go to the vet. Let them test her and make sure she is climbing. If she is still dropping, I wouldn't want her left alone.
 
Okay, then maybe a little more honey (better too high than too low). I'd suggest the ReliOn from Walmart - easy to use, cheap meter and strips and reliable.
 
I left out some dry for her yesterday and I think that brought it up last night so today I started her on nothing but canned (which she's eating now).
Click to expand...

If you have switched your kitty Mia to entirely canned food, the lower carbs in that food may mean she won't need as much or any insulin. Sometimes, just the food change alone is enough to bring the BG levels back into the normal range.

Would you please tell us what canned food you are feeding?
 
Sorry I'm not replying till now. When I got home I checked her and it was at 330. I gave her .5 units, waited 3.5 hours and it was at 193. I also called the vet and after doing her own research she agreed and changed Mia over to Lantus. I requested the pen version as some of you have said it was more cost efficient. Apparently, they tried her on Novolin and also had the roller coaster so at night they had her on Humulin which she did well on. Her original prescription was for Humulin but when we filled it they gave us Novolin. The vet also said to lower her dosage (as you all have said). She is currently on the Hill's prescription can M/D, but tomorrow i'll start the Friskies Classic Pate (seafood). Looking at the chart at catinfo.org they have a carbohydrate range of 6-9 g.
 
Hopefully I'll have enough time to pick up the Lantus prescription, call around for the best price and (if i'm lucky) find somewhere to sell me a single pen tomorrow. Then, i'll feel completely prepared and ready to battle ha. When I start her on Lantus, how often should I test her levels? Every two hours? How many days should I do this? And what exactly am I looking for? Nadir?
 
She was 8 lbs before she got sick and then down to 6 (a little below 7) by the time we picked her up from the vet (3 night stay). So right now I would guess she is at 7 lbs.
 
Sorry I should have said, what is her ideal weight?

Here is formula for starting dose.. the formula is 0.25 unit per kg of the cat's ideal weight... But go on the low side.

If you read the links I gave you (I strongly recommend u do) it explains the first starting dose is held a week unless the cat drops under 50 which means you reduce the dose.The starting dose is held a week to let the insulin depot build up in the cats system.

Meanwhile I usually recommend 3-4 tests a day (yes dose changes are based on nadir)

- always before the shot - this is mandatory as you don't want to shoot when too low. As a newbie this too low number is 200 but is reduced over time once you have the data to know if its safe.
- mid cycle - 5-7 hours after morning shot depending on your schedule. This is to see how low the cat’s blood sugar is going. The low point "nadir" is what you base dose changes on since you don't want the cat dropping too low (under 50).
- before bed (2-3hours after Pm shot) to get an idea of what the cat's overnight plans are. If this number is less than the pre shot test number you may want to set the alarm for a test a few hours later as this implies an active cycle.


Wendy
 
Wow! I just had in information overload! Yes, I will definitely read everything I can get my hands on. I'm slowly putting everything together. The past few posts have been the most informative!
 
What do you mean her ideal weight? The most Mia has every weighted was 11 lbs as opposed to my other cat which is 14 lbs. She was born the runt and for years we battled what we thought might be allergies (vet gave her a steroid shot 1-2 a year) until she got so bad she was practically scratching herself to death and we took her to an allergy specialist in Atlanta. Turns out it was Bartonella. Cured, she ballooned to 11 lbs. It wasn't till recently I noticed she had lost some weight. I should have taken her to the vet then, but I thought it was the new Purina Healthy Weight my husband grabbed. About 3 weeks later she got sick and here we are.
 
Yeah, it does. How often do you guys change syringes. My mother was a diabetic and she didn't change hers every day. Also, what about the lancets? She did clean them with alcohol pads after each use though.
 
Syringes we change every time or at least once a day as they degrade really quick. I use a lancet a day too, because they can get blunt and painful.

Let us know when you get the lantus and we can advise more.
 
"- before bed (2-3hours after Pm shot) to get an idea of what the cat's overnight plans are. If this number is less than the pre shot test number you may want to set the alarm for a test a few hours later as this implies an active cycle."

Is the "pre shot" the very first reading I get in the morning?
 
Here is formula for starting dose.. the formula is 0.25 unit per kg of the cat's ideal weight... But go on the low side.
Click to expand...
One clarification here. Lantus insulin starting dose is based on the lower of the ideal weight, or current weight if that is lower.

For example, say your cat currently weighs 8 pounds. The ideal weight is 10 pounds. So you would base the dose on the current weight of 8 pounds, since that is lower.

8 pounds / 2.2 (kilos per pound) = 3.6 kilos
3.6 kilos * 0.25U per kilo = 0.9U
0.9u rounded down to the nearest quarter unit for safety and ease of measuring = 0.75U to start

You also take the dose of any previous insulin into consideration. In this case, you have not used the Novolin for very long so that is not a deciding factor here in the starting dose. It would be, if you were on a higher dose of the Novolin or had been using it for longer.
 
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