Shadow AMPS 575+2 575. +7 192 +9. 371

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Shadow12345

Member Since 2014
Hello All,

My name is Andrea, My kitty is Shadow. We have been posting for a few days in the Main Forum Page. I was directed over here for your expertise!
I'm not sure how much background information to post
Shadow has a history of fluctuating Ketones & HI numbers

Shadows Info today

AMPS 575 & Negative Ketone reading
Currently - 5 P's are all in check


QUESTION: Pharmacist told us not to refrigerate Lantus after opening, I just read that you should be refrigerating it. It has been open for 23 not refrigerated. Advice?

I am tring to test often to get a baseline to make adjustments...6 complete cycles is the goal and then we make a increase decrease decision right? She is all over the place number wise!!

I started to feed Shadow 4 smaller meals througout the day mxed with H20. She seems to like this more than 2 feedings.

Zobaline? Thinking about starting her on this for her poor hind legs. They are very unstable. Thoughts??

Any advice is great. Not sure if i am posting completely correctly.... :-D Thank you
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 575-- 1st post here!

You're doing great, and Welcome :-D
If handled gently and kept in the refrigerator on the shelf (not the door), the Lantus can last a lot longer, sometimes for many months. Unrefrigerated for 28 days. Humans go through insulin a lot faster than cats as they have a lot bigger doses, so they don't waste much by throwing out what's left after 28 days. With a kitty sized dose, we don't use that much of a vial in 28 days, so we refrigerate it to get it to last as long as possible.
STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - INFO, PROPER HANDLING, & STORAGE
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 575-- 1st post here!

welcome to the group, andrea and shadow! :mrgreen:

andrea's thread on Health: New Member- Shadow.

in a nutshell, but please read through the initial thread: shadow is only 5 pounds. diagnosed 2.5 weeks ago. started on 1u of lantus bid. vet suggested increasing the dose to 2u bid. shadow has thrown small and moderate ketones. she's had access to a small amount of dry food each day. andrea may be getting rid of the dry over the next 3 days. shadow has been fed 2 meals a day, but andrea plans on changing that to mini-meals fed throughout the day. andrea has just started hometesting.

hope to see you posting often, andrea...
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 575-- 1st post here!

Hi, Andrea and welcome to Lantus Land!

Here's your initial post from the Health board: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=113282&p=1193860#p1193860

I know you are still learning how to navigate FDMB and sort out a lot (ok, an overwhelming amount) of information. I do want to encourage you to take the information that Jill/Alex provided very seriously. She's one of the most experienced people here on the site. The information about ketones and food are essential. Likewise, her suggestion to begin to familiarize yourself with the starred sticky notes at the top of the Lantus board will help you not only get a feel for how this board works but, more importantly, how Lantus works.

As I understand it, Shadow was diagnosed roughly 3 weeks ago. You began home testing on 2/6. Your vet suggested you increase Shadow's dose from 1.0u to 2.0u yesterday. It looks like you reduced Shadow's dose back to 1.0u last night. One helpful aspect of using Lantus is to understand what you base dose changes on. Rather than looking only at the pre-shot test data, Lantus dosing is based on the lowest number in the cycle (i.e., the nadir). This also means that it's important to try to get at least one spot check during both the AM and PM cycles. It is entirely possible for a kitty to be in very high numbers at pre-shot times and to drop into dose reduction range (below 50) at nadir.

In addition to spot checks, Lantus really likes consistency. Unless a reduction is warranted, you want to hold the dose for at least 3 days/6 cycles. This allows the dose to stabilize. Unlike most other types of insulin, Lantus (and Levemir) are "depot"-type of insulin. It is the depot that gives Lantus its duration and overlap between doses. (There's a sticky note at the top of the Board on this topic.) It can sometime take several cycles for the depot to catch up with both dose increases and dose reductions so being patient can be important.

One other answer to your question yesterday as to why Shadow's numbers increased despite your raising the dose. There is a phenomenon that we've labeled, "new dose wonkiness" (NDW)that may have occurred. This refers to when numbers do up vs. down when you increase the dose.

Please let us know how we can be of help. The people here are incredibly generous with their time and information and we are all here to lend a hand.
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 575-- 1st post here!

Hello Andrea and Shadow! You've already gotten wonderful information, so I just wanted to stop by and say welcome! I hope we can get Shadow down into some safer numbers soon. Keep posting and asking questions!! LL is like a family and we are all here to support each other and help as best we can. :thumbup
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 575-- 1st post here!

Hi Andrea! Happy to see you posting over here in Lantus Land!!

Now it's just a matter of gathering data and seeing how Shadow does! The more tests you can get, the easier it will be to figure out how each dose is working, so try to get at least 1 test around +5 to +7...but if you can get more tests, that's even better!

We'd love to see a picture of Shadow if you have one! Avatar pics can only be 90x90 so you may have to shrink one. Here's an easy place to shrink your picture http://www.shrinkpictures.com/create-avatar/

Then you just go back to the User Control Panel, go to Profile, Edit Avatar and you're ready to show off your pretty kitty!!

We all look forward to helping you learn the steps of this sugardance!
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 575-- 1st post here!

just adding my welcome, Andrea!

you've gotten lots of good information - read & ask questions and we'll try to teach you what you need to know to help your very little sweetheart! cat_pet_icon
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 575-- 1st post here!

Couple of questions:

In your thread on Main health, you said "over the past 2 weeks she got a UTI and is not showing any positive symptoms. No weight gain."

- what did you mean by not showing any positive symptoms?

- is the UTI resolved? did she get antibiotics for it?

- is 5lbs her normal weight or was she larger pre-diagnosis?
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 575-- 1st post here!

julie & punkin (ga) said:
Couple of questions:

In your thread on Main health, you said "over the past 2 weeks she got a UTI and is not showing any positive symptoms. No weight gain."
- what did you mean by not showing any positive symptoms?

- is the UTI resolved? did she get antibiotics for it?

- is 5lbs her normal weight or was she larger pre-diagnosis?
Click to expand...

What i meant by not showing any positive symptons-- when we first started the insulin i was uneducated and didn't really even know what to look for. So over the first 2 weeks of using, she was still starving, very thirsty , urinating pools, and lethargic. When i joined this forum i began testing and really learning about her condition so that i can understand better

UTI-- She has 4 days worth of antibiotics left.

WEiGHT-- she has always been a slender kitty. However, not as skinny as she is now. I honestly am not sure of exact weight but i would guess somewhere around 8-9 pounds would be average.

If this is not how i am supposed to quote to answer please advise
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 575-- 1st post here!

Dyana said:
You're doing great, and Welcome :-D
If handled gently and kept in the refrigerator on the shelf (not the door), the Lantus can last a lot longer, sometimes for many months. Unrefrigerated for 28 days. Humans go through insulin a lot faster than cats as they have a lot bigger doses, so they don't waste much by throwing out what's left after 28 days. With a kitty sized dose, we don't use that much of a vial in 28 days, so we refrigerate it to get it to last as long as possible.
STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - INFO, PROPER HANDLING, & STORAGE
Click to expand...


thanks for the wisedom. We put the insulin in the fridge. Not sure if this will help at all at this point. Any advice for cheapest way to purchase this. I paid 230$ at walmart for her first vial I heard about the Lantus Pen.
 
Re: Shadow AMPS 575-- 1st post here!

Sienne and Gabby said:
Hi, Andrea and welcome to Lantus Land!

Here's your initial post from the Health board: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=113282&p=1193860#p1193860

I know you are still learning how to navigate FDMB and sort out a lot (ok, an overwhelming amount) of information. I do want to encourage you to take the information that Jill/Alex provided very seriously. She's one of the most experienced people here on the site. The information about ketones and food are essential. Likewise, her suggestion to begin to familiarize yourself with the starred sticky notes at the top of the Lantus board will help you not only get a feel for how this board works but, more importantly, how Lantus works.

As I understand it, Shadow was diagnosed roughly 3 weeks ago. You began home testing on 2/6. Your vet suggested you increase Shadow's dose from 1.0u to 2.0u yesterday. It looks like you reduced Shadow's dose back to 1.0u last night. One helpful aspect of using Lantus is to understand what you base dose changes on. Rather than looking only at the pre-shot test data, Lantus dosing is based on the lowest number in the cycle (i.e., the nadir). This also means that it's important to try to get at least one spot check during both the AM and PM cycles. It is entirely possible for a kitty to be in very high numbers at pre-shot times and to drop into dose reduction range (below 50) at nadir.

In addition to spot checks, Lantus really likes consistency. Unless a reduction is warranted, you want to hold the dose for at least 3 days/6 cycles. This allows the dose to stabilize. Unlike most other types of insulin, Lantus (and Levemir) are "depot"-type of insulin. It is the depot that gives Lantus its duration and overlap between doses. (There's a sticky note at the top of the Board on this topic.) It can sometime take several cycles for the depot to catch up with both dose increases and dose reductions so being patient can be important.

One other answer to your question yesterday as to why Shadow's numbers increased despite your raising the dose. There is a phenomenon that we've labeled, "new dose wonkiness" (NDW)that may have occurred. This refers to when numbers do up vs. down when you increase the dose.

Please let us know how we can be of help. The people here are incredibly generous with their time and information and we are all here to lend a hand.
Click to expand...


Hello! I am holding Shadow at 1 unit through 3 days while continually testing. I know adjustment will need to be made. But i am waiting to get lots of checks to help. Tomorrow will be day 3 of this cycle.

I had increased her to 2 units per direction from the vet. However i will not be following her guidelines any more

So happy to have found all of you here :-D
 
Hi Andrea!

Don't forget to update your spreadsheet as you get tests in. It really will help us to help you!

YEAH on the +7 of 192! That's a pretty big drop from AMPS

Tomorrow won't exactly be your 3rd day on the 1 unit....It's 3 days (6 cycles) that's the minimum time to see how each dose is doing, so since you shot 1 unit last night, 1 unit this morning, you still have 4 cycles left...so you'd be on your 6th cycle Tuesday morning. Depending on the results you get between now and then, we might want you to increase on Tuesday night's shot

You're doing great! Keep getting those tests when you can! Hopefully Shadow is cooperating for you!
 
your answering system is fine! it's fine to quote the questions you're answering, but you don't have to. either way. happy to see that blue 192 number in there!

your insulin may be just fine. just take care of it now and use it until it looks like there is a problem, ie, it develops threads or floaters, gets cloudy, or Shadow's numbers go high without any explanation. if you haven't watched the video on how to draw up the dose, you'll probably want to do that. it's on the link Dyana gave you about taking care of the insulin. I'd bet nearly everyone has accidentally left the insulin out on the counter by accident overnight. usually that alone won't ruin in.

is she now too skinny? does she need to regain that weight she lost, do you think?
 
She should start to gain weight as you get her under better control. China was a walking skeleton when we started, and now she's just a little too "fluffy" :lol:

Without insulin, the cells can't get the sugar they need, so our kitties are basically starving although they may be eating huge amounts of food.
 
You've gotten a ton of info and it sounds like you are doing awesome with home testing, so I just want to add our Welcome to the pile! Keep asking as many questions you need to...this is the best place for both knowledge and a shoulder to lean on.

Again, Welcome Andrea and Shadow!!
 
The weight regain will come with glucose regulation and time. Feeding several meals will let Shadow eat a little bit more without getting stuffed too full and vomiting it all back up.

(Dusty was down to about 5.5 pounds or so when I started helping his mom test and dose. He has gained it back and is doing well)
 
Chris/China said:
Tomorrow won't exactly be your 3rd day on the 1 unit....It's 3 days (6 cycles) that's the minimum time to see how each dose is doing, so since you shot 1 unit last night, 1 unit this morning, you still have 4 cycles left...so you'd be on your 6th cycle Tuesday morning. Depending on the results you get between now and then, we might want you to increase on Tuesday night's shot
Click to expand...
What Chris posted about the minimum time at a dose is partially correct. In the case of a kitty that's sitting in high numbers, especially if there's a history of ketones, we will often "fast track" the dose. There is actually another Lantus board, although it's located in Germany, and the version of Tight Regulation that they use allows for dose increases after 4 cycles/2 days. We look to see when nadirs that are below 300 start showing up routinely and then drop back to the more conservative method of holding the dose for at least 3 days/6 cycles. I think we're going to need to see what Shadow does tonight and tomorrow morning before deciding about the dose increase.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
What Chris posted about the minimum time at a dose is partially correct. In the case of a kitty that's sitting in high numbers, especially if there's a history of ketones, we will often "fast track" the dose. There is actually another Lantus board, although it's located in Germany, and the version of Tight Regulation that they use allows for dose increases after 4 cycles/2 days. We look to see when nadirs that are below 300 start showing up routinely and then drop back to the more conservative method of holding the dose for at least 3 days/6 cycles. I think we're going to need to see what Shadow does tonight and tomorrow morning before deciding about the dose increase.
Click to expand...
i agree with sienne.

thinking ahead...
i was wondering if there's someone available to test shadow during the work week (during usual work hours).
i'm just trying to get an idea of your schedule because it might become a factor in making dosing suggestions.

just a reminder from your first thread on Health...
if she starts throwing ketones, please let us know right away. if kitties start to throw ketones, we'll often abandon conventional dosing guidelines to suggest more aggressive measures.

have a good evening...
 
Zobaline? Thinking about starting her on this for her poor hind legs. They are very unstable. Thoughts??
Click to expand...

Lots of people use it, and see good results, but it does take time. If you'd like to start Shadow on it, you can do that at any time..as you get her Blood glucose under control, that will help too.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top