Shaak AMPS 298, Feb. 10th, 2016

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Glad you are feeling better. That is a better amps, probably reflecting both the diet change and the clearing of her infection/pain. Are you planning on giving 0.25? I think that would be fine and then a check early when she tends to drop would be good.
 
Great job, Cathie, and I'm glad you got some sleep.

Nice AMPS! I'm sorry I didn't post the 0.25u photo :banghead::banghead:

But, for future reference, here's what 0.25 looks like.
025unit-1.jpg
 
Nice numbers for the day Shaak! :cool::cool::cool:
I hope she's starting to feel better, and glad you got some rest yourself. You're doing great with her!

:)
 
We should check with @Sue and Oliver (GA) about the dose for tonight. This lower dose can get her into blue and I’m wondering if we should give it to her tonight to let you get some more sleep and see where she is tomorrow.
 
I don't know. It was a very nice cycle. She didn't go too low but stayed in good ranges for the first half of the cycle.

I don't want to put pressure on you overnight, Cathie, and have you worry. But it does look like a safe dose that keeps her in nice ranges longer than we usually see with N.
 
Nice numbers for the day Shaak! :cool::cool::cool:
I hope she's starting to feel better, and glad you got some rest yourself. You're doing great with her!
:)
I got in a good rest, got up in the middle of it to give pain med, but other than that slept through, thank you for your caring.

Hi Cathie,

I am very, very glad to hear you managed to get some rest. Also that Shaak had better BGs today.
:bighug:


Mogs
.
:bighug:

That is what I am thinking
sounds great, thank you
 
I feel so much better today, still have a headache, but I can tell Shaak feels better, and she has peed twice in the box, good amounts and no leakage anywhere that I can see. I have to go get my son right after I give her shot in just under an hour. Thank everyone for being here.
 
Fortiflora is not a probiotic. It's only benefit is it might be a good food enhancer but I would never use it as a probiotic. Even if your vet said it is....it's not.

Actually it DOES contain a probiotic, enterococcus faecium that aids specifically in preventing diarrea and food intolerances. This digestive suppliment and probiotic would not be allowed to be sold here unless it contains what it says it contains. Whether it is as effective for all modalities of digestion in individual animals always up for debate. Many companies actually use human probiotics which are more familiar to the consumer, yet are not as effective in other mammals. Yet the consumer will identify with these probiotics as being better, because they are more familiar.

Also, here is some more information.

https://www.purinaveterinarydiets.com/probiotics/

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/252952/forti-flora-and-other-brands-of-probiotics-for-cats

https://www.purina.com/meet-purina/nutrition/4-things-you-might-not-know-about-probiotics-and-pets

http://www.1800petmeds.com/Purina FortiFlora-prod10376.html?siteID=0EfWUIn8TCM-5VBcG7FGxuwn7iTa3nFxaA
 
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Actually it DOES contain a probiotic, enterococcus faecium that aids specifically in preventing diarrea and food intolerances. This digestive suppliment and probiotic would not be allowed to be sold here unless it contains what it says it contains. Whether it is as effective for all modalities of digestion in individual animals always up for debate. Many companies actually use human probiotics which are more familiar to the consumer, yet are not as effective in other mammals. Yet the consumer will identify with these probiotics because they are more familiar.

Also, here is some more information.

https://www.purinaveterinarydiets.com/probiotics/

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/252952/forti-flora-and-other-brands-of-probiotics-for-cats

https://www.purina.com/meet-purina/nutrition/4-things-you-might-not-know-about-probiotics-and-pets

http://www.1800petmeds.com/Purina FortiFlora-prod10376.html?siteID=0EfWUIn8TCM-5VBcG7FGxuwn7iTa3nFxaA
Sorry but Purina is one of those companies I believe is poisoning our pets with their products so there is no way I would even consider their opinion. If you read the catsite posts, many of the posters state fortiflora is not a probiotic.

The best probiotics for cats are human grade.
 
;)We'll have to agree to disagree then, Marje. Humans and mammals are not always alike in every way. Their stomach acids, for example, are much stronger, and can digest bone, whereas our stomachs cannot. While I agree that Purina has a lot of things wrong, the fact is that enterococcus faeicum is a probiotic. I have yet to see any medication or treatment that is 100% supported by all pet owners so we could argue back and forth all day, citing the opinions of individual owners.

BTW it's working beautifully for both my cats. Solved their issues very nicely.
 
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;)We'll have to agree to disagree then, Marje.
Certainly! We can't all agree on everything.

I don't think you meant to say humans and mammals are not always alike because humans are mammals. But I understand what you are saying (I've taught anatomy & physiology at the university level so I get it). But research shows that human grade probiotics work better for cats especially those with IBD.

But if fortiflora works for your babies, I'm glad. Healthy babies are what we all want.
 
I'm always open to new ideas.:)Can you provide me with that research info?

And yups, didn't clearly say what I meant. Cats have such strong digestive systems that some probiotics simply don't survive the rigors of the acids.

And yup, I left out a word. That's what I get for typing too fast. "Humans and other mammals are not always alike in every way. " Thanks for catching that. Sometimes my mind goes faster than my fingers.:p

As to Purina: o_O I'm very ambivalent about that company. They make Fancy Feast, which I consider to be a good, low cost alternative for those of us who have pinched pockets..yet they are so blatantly wrong on keeping the average consumer in the dark about cats being obligate meat eaters, and the harm dry foods and hi-carb can do. Science caught up with, and surpassed them and many of their products. Now they're caught up in having to eat their own words, doing damage control.

I'd like to think they've learned their lesson. At least they are offering low carb choices now. But unfortunately, as long as people want dry food, they will aim to catch the consumer by appealing to their palates instead of the animals...I think they'll offer it.
 
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Thanks for the link..while I can see some promise and possibilities in using Human probiotics, we also still aren't totally positive that in the long run, they aren't going to prove problematic for other species.

So if there's a species specific strain of probiotic available, I want to use that first. If it doesn't work, then I'll consider moving on to broader strains that have already been researched on humans.

The real concern here is: Are we just going to use human oriented probiotics because someone feels they work, without digging into and studying the special needs of felines? The human probiotics may provide a temporary stopgap. Better something than nothing..but the use of these is still in infancy. Only a few researchers have really 'weighed in' yet. For one study that says they work..another may pop up down the road that says they might not be the best. Not enough research yet. Jury is still out.

My feeling is that it would be a mistake to stop researching and using feline specific strains of probiotics, just because human ones appear to work 'pretty good'. There's not enough data yet to confirm that feline probiotics wouldn't be better. "Hasn't been proven yet" = sin of omission. We humans, especially companies publicly owned and concerned with profit, tend to take the easy way out. We stop looking when we think we have the answer. Later on, down the road, we find this to be in error, for how do we know that human strains of probiotics might prove to have an ultimate negative effect 'down the road' with subsequent litters, grand-litters, (not a word but it's handy o_O) etc..

In essence, this is exactly what happened concerning the dry pet food industry. Researchers 'felt' that dry foods were fine for cats..and for years, corn and other grain based dry foods have been sold with the constant affirmation that it was 'good for your cat'. Purina and other companies are still attempting to stack the deck in favor of their use. That's no surprise. They have millions of dollars poured into creating these brands, and they have been very profitable. People trusted them. To do a sudden and total turnaround would cast suspicion on them and people would lose confidence in the company as a whole.

Now, after many more trials and understanding what it means to be an obligate carnivore, we're finding out that dry foods aren't fine. Cats survive, but they don't thrive, on dry food.

Same thing happened concerning past trials for human diseases. Almost all trials were done on men. It was assumed that was proven for men, would also be proven for women. Medications have been sold for years based on the logic that hey, human is human is human.

Well, Women aren't 'little men'. It's a mistake to treat us as such when conducting trials. And this is two genders within the same species.

But getting pharmaceutical companies to run trials using women has been like pulling teeth. Will this happen with felines vs.canines vs. humans when it comes to drugs and probiotics? We now know that gut flora in humans can possibly cause such issues as obesity, and perhaps even mood disorders and mental well being. And there's even the possibility that the human genome might be affected for future generations. Everything is connected, and all the parts that are connected within each species are designed to work together.

I don't dispute that human probiotics might not have their place right now. But unless it's such a dire emergency that time is of the essence..I'd rather go with a species specific probiotic first if it's available. It's not time to throw them out.

Jus sayin;)
 
I think if you want to have a long discussion on probiotics, it needs to go on Think Tank and we shouldn't hijack a thread of someone's other than for quick responses. Thanks!,
 
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