Shaak AM +8 BG190

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Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

Member Since 2016
First it was FF saying no formula change, Shàak continued to do fine on it. Then her BG's went from 50"s to 90" overnight. Then she began to ignore food. Finally had to go with different food. I wanted to get a certain food that had good carb percentages. Could not find first choice so I checked out numbers on 9 lives. A member worked out the carbs on what I picked. Came in at 2.9 percent. So she started eating it. Her BG 's stayed the same. 90's. Then the diarrhea started. She pooped in every room, on anything. Gave her florastor and had no effect. Gave her renew life S Boulardii. In 6 days her poops are solid. Yay! Three days ago her BG's climbed to the 180's, last night 236, just now 289. She isn't playing. Just laying on bed snuggling, putting, but you can tell she does not feel good. My mother in law gave me 4 cans of science diet to feed her. She does not realize all the awful things that they put in it. All sorts of flours and starches. She had said if it worked she would help pay for it since it is more expensive. I am hoping if I can find a proper food for her at the pet store that can bring her numbers back down. I am going to have to buy more insulin as I threw out the other bottle. I am going to stick with Novolin N. I know it is not a preferred cat insulin but, I am experienced with it and think Shàak will do well on it. So I am hoping to have some help making sure carb values are accurate and hopefully around 4-5. I am hoping that @Marje and Gracie might be able to go with me to Petco or PetSmart and help me figure this out. I am afraid of carb % of the charts we have because it seems many companies are changing their names and ingredients. So Dr Lisa's chart may be to outdated to get us anywhere. Wanted to tag a few of you to read and see what your opinions are. @Critter Mom, @Sue and Oliver (GA) , @MrWorfMen's Mom to start.
 
Hi Cathie, So very sorry to hear Shaak is out of remission and feeling poorly. It's heart wrenching for you I'm sure but you caught it early and Shaak is in good hands.

My first thoughts with the bowel issues, is whether her symptoms were all food related or whether it could be inflammation or an infection of some sort. I'm not sure what the usual BG pattern is of a cat dropping out of remission (does BG go up gradually or suddenly?) but the gradual rise makes me wonder if an infection of some sort might be involved. I'm sure someone else with more experience than me will chime in on that question.

In the meantime, I'd be inclined to take Shaak to the vet for a once over (teeth, lungs, abdomen) just to be sure there isn't something else at play here. Has she ever had pancreatitis? Is she eating well?

We are trying to revive the Vetsulin/Caninsulin/NPH forum and get that community going again so I encourage you to post there when you get Shaak back on insulin.
 
Cathie

Well...darn! And believe me, that wasn't my word of choice! Anytime a cat comes out of remission like that and has had issues, I always think a visit to the vet is smart. You want to be sure she does not have any kind of infection that could ultimately lead to DKA if untreated, if BG stays high, and if she goes off her food.

I can go with you this weekend (Fri or Sat) but we have company coming right after Christmas for a week. I'd get insulin restarted pretty quick unless she brings herself down.

Is she eating now and what food?
.
 
Oh, Cathie ... :(

:bighug:

Cathie and Shaak Ti said:
the diarrhea started. She pooped in every room, on anything. Gave her florastor and had no effect. Gave her renew life S Boulardii. In 6 days her poops are solid. Yay! Three days ago her BG's climbed to the 180's, last night 236, just now 289. She isn't playing. Just laying on bed snuggling, putting, but you can tell she does not feel good.
Click to expand...

Quick checklist (small hours of morning over here)

1. Test for ketones ASAP - at home if you can. Also check hydration (no snap-back in scruff of neck test, sticky gums). Watch for nausea symptoms.
- Nausea symptom checker

2. Get to vet as soon as possible.
- Check for ketones, infection, abdominal examination, check for any back pain.
- Assess for pancreatitis - if only to rule it out (diarrhoea, elevated BGs, lethargy). Get SNAP fPL test if possible (immediate yes/no) or Spec fPL (goes to external lab).

3. Check for constipation - it can cause lethargy, nausea (resistant to ondansetron and Cerenia), vomiting, and possibly leaky diarrhoea.
- If constipation is the issue ask vet about giving metocloporamide (Reglan) for a day or two. It's not much cop for cat nausea (they don't have many of the receptors it targets) but it can help restore proper gut motility.

www.felineconstipation.org

Perhaps as a precaution ask for Rx for anti-nausea, appy stimulant (and pain meds if pancreatitis test is positive) to have at home over the holiday period just in case they're needed. Even if Shaak is eating OK right now (is she?) should she start becoming nauseated if you are in a position to treat it straight away it can really reduce the risk of Shaak becoming inappetent.

I hope Shaak feels better soon, Cathie. (Goes without saying that you're both on my prayer list.)

:bighug:


Mogs
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This all sounds so supportive and helpful but I don't even have the money to buy my kids a Christmas Present. A friend has generously provided food for me to cook Christmas dinner on Sunday. I am praying hard and Testing her as much as I can. I have not been posting her spreadsheet though, partly because it is so upsetting and heartbreaking for me. Also though I am currently going over some very serious family issues that is taking up a lot of my time, a whole lot.

I will check for keytones and let you know what they are, right now though I have to get into bed. Kirby has to be up in 6 hours and I have been up since 5 am and did not get into bed until 1 am. I am done for. No energy left, only thing that helped me make it through the day is the Prednisone emergency script that I got. seven day treatment. The Dr only lets me use it on the occasions that I am in +9 pain. I am already on a Butrans Patch 10mg and oxycodone 10mg. My tremors are worse, I don't know how I am going to draw insulin, they have me on a Parkinson's drug for calming tremors, I think it is helping but the situation is that it is another medicine that causes side effect of memory loss. I am on 6 meds that cause memory loss. I went a week not taking my nighttime meds because I didn't remember to take them. I finally know how to set the alarm on my new phone, so that is going to help immensely. As for the rest of it I am gonna pray. Please say prayers for Shaak and me. You know I believe in prayer. I have been slacking off though because of all the crazy stuff going on. Right now I am going to bed though. I will check thread in the morning.
 
Oh, Cathie ...

I am so sad to hear all that you're going through. :(

(((Cathie)))

I wish I could do something to help. I will keep praying for you and for Shaak.

Keep an eye on Shaak and the litter box - especially whether she poops. Praying for a negative ketone test.

:bighug:


Mogs
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Oh honey I am so sorry. Did you look into some sort of financial help for the vets? I think they have the info here? Also do they have the purina DM in the US? I know a lot of people say it's not that great, but that's what my Angel did so well on. He hadn't had it for a while and I don't know if it's co incidence but since I started feeding it to him again he's been so lively and playful.

Have you had a 2nd opinion for all the meds you are on to see if there is an alternative?

Angel and Shakira are on the sofa with me, they are cuddling and grooming each other. I said to them to send purrs to you both, kitty prayers can only help. If only I was rich, sigh. I'd help all the kitties on here. Of course I'd probably have a luxury holiday with Mr Cat Food Brain too.

xx
 
Dear Cathie, so very sorry to hear about your struggles, especially when everybody is cheering and preparing for Christmas and spending tons of money on things they don't need ( making China wealthy) and too much food which would be thrown away!
I wish I could help you in any way. Having health problems and having a sick cat you love and trying to cope with everything is tremendously difficult and I feel for you.
Let's just hope that Shaak will get better soon and your treatment will help you feel better.
I'm sending prayers and hugs your way, bless you darling.
Marlena:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Cathie

We've discussed the vet visit over the phone and here is what I would recommend you ask about:

If they use Antech labs, ask for a SENIOR panel which will check the superchems, the complete blood count, the thyroid, provide a Precison PL which can be used as an indicator of pancreatitis (although it isn't as good as a specfPL), and urine.

If they use IDEXX, ask if they have a similar Senior panel although they don't run a pancreatitis test as part of that. You would have to add on the specfPL. But I would hope that IDEXX has a senior panel to check superchem, CBC, thyroid, and urine.

Senior panels are usually less expensive.

I'd also ask them to do a really thorough check of her mouth. One of the primary reasons cats fall out of remission is due to dental issues and if she's not eating normally, it would be a place to start. The not eating well could be other things, too, but dental issues could affect it.

If the vet feels Shaak has pancreatitis and prescribes ondansetron and/or cerenia, I have both here so could save you some money but the vet needs to prescribe it before I can share it. For pancreatitis, you can also ask the vet if she will prescribe a pain med like buprenorphine and give you some as I do not have that here. It is a narcotic but if the vet feels it is warranted for you to have some to get you through any issues with pancreatitis (e.g. Pain) that might arise over the weekend, then hopefully she can give you a bit. I don't know if all vets stock it.

Let me know if you want me to run to Walmart and get a new vial of N for you. Shaak needs insulin therapy right now and you don't want her to go long without it and the numbers get worse.
 
I am running on empty right now. I just texted a long reply to Marje and was planning on copying it and pasting part of the message to fill everyone in. I did not realize my phone would not let me do that. It does on Facebook. Anyway. 2 am my time. Shàak is cuddled between my daughter and I. She has not eaten enough for me as tired as I am to give her her first insulin dose. I am praying I can get her to eat enough inmorning to at least shoot a drop if nothing more. I will catch the spreadsheet up tomorrow. Right now I am just too exhausted to do it. Shaak's BG's have all been running either right below or right above 200. Thank you everyone for being so wonderful and helpful today. So much is going on in my life right now. It is so wonderful to have friends that care so much. I will be up early in morning but no laptop till later in day. Will catch up spreadsheet then.:bighug::bighug:
 
Just read realized never told you guys Shàak has a UTI. The vet was very nice even though she did say she thinks I caused Shàak to fall out of remission due to changing her food. I feel like an idiot for thinking Shaak's problems were from food and not thinking she might be sick. In any case we now know. UTI She is on Clavamox and we are giving first dose Novolin N in morning as long as Shàak eats enough.
 
Cathie

I think it is really important to get “some” insulin in her but you will need to be available to test her. Can you syringe feed her?

I am worried that with infection, BGs high, and not eating well that she could be at risk for developing ketones and DKA. If you can syringe feed her or get her to eat off your hand, that would be great as you could start her on either 0.25u or 0.5u of Novolin N depending on how comfortable you are and what her BG is when you decide to shoot.

If you can only get a nominal amount of food in her, try a drop of insulin. It’s better than nothing and gives you an idea of how she will respond but you’ll need to be there and administer karo if she drops.

In either scenario, I’d test more frequently at first so we can see how much the insulin helps her. We don’t want her dropping fast and sometimes, it just takes a little to get them back on track.
 
okay, here is where we stand.

after first dose anti-biotics during night she ate very little if any of her 1am or 4am meals.

This morning she ate half of her morning meal(Her AMPS 215)

I gave her two drops (approx) this morning at AMPS +.5 (please forgive, I know I need to be posting to SS but I have done something to it due to stress and I can't find any dates or past BG's and I don't know anything about how to fix it, Hoping @Marje and Gracie might be able to take a look at it for me, if possible, I know it is Christmas Eve, if you can't I completely understand. It can wait.)

+2(BG 188)

+3(BG 179) ate all of meal(2nd dose anti-biotic ).

+4(BG 175)

+6 (BG 185)ate all of meal.

+8(BG 190)


She eats again at +9 and gets a pro-biotic, Braiden is giving her her Pro-biotic) because I have to go and check on my friends dog.

I plan on taking next BG at +11.

Please forgive, just a lot of stress from some unspoken things going on right now.
 
Cathie

I just need to finish making cat food and then I will check the SS for you.

I'm glad to see her in blue with two drops!
 
she is eating all her food. She is carrying toys around and investigating what Santa brought. She was 170 at +3 and 184 at +7. SS should be up to date now. I am going to bed now, for four hours. gotta get up at 8am to go check on friend's dog.
 
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