Sebastian's numbers are really high on Prozinc

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Val and Sebastian

Val and Sebastian

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We just recently switched from Vetsulin to Prozinc (about a month ago.) He was barely on 1/2 a unit of Vetsulin, just a small trace, and his numbers were low enough that a lot of time we didn't have to shoot at all.

Since he's been on Prozinc, his numbers have gone haywire. Sometimes he's at 180 or so, but most often he's around 250. This morning, his preshot was 306, which is higher than he's been in a year! :-|

He's on one unit of Prozinc. We've only managed to get one curve done on him since he started Prozinc, and it was pretty flat. I know we're not supposed to increase dosage based on preshot numbers, but it's hard to be consistent when sometimes he's under 200.

I'm not really sure what to do. I feel like we're starting all over again with this stuff.

Anyone have any advice for me?

(I know I need to get a spreadsheet going. I don't have his info with me here at work, but I will get on that ASAP. We just didn't need it with the Vetsulin since he was doing so well.)
 
Have you run a full curve on him?

When we switched, we went from 6 units of Vetsulin to 1.5 units of Prozinc. ECID, but you might be giving him too much Prozinc and you're getting rebound #'s. My vet told me the standard starting out dosage for ProZinc at their practice is .25 units and they work up from there. You can post your #'s in the thread here until you get your SS going and that will give us a better idea of what's going on with him.
 
Hope - that's exactly what I was thinking too before reading your post. 1U may be way too much for kitty's system, especially if you were on such a low dose of Vetsulin.

You might want to look into getting U100 syringes with half unit markings and a conversion chart to U40 doses so you can accurately start with a 0.2u dose and bump it up from there.
 
Thanks for the replies!

We started him on 1/2 unit, but after a week or so, his numbers weren't really improving and the curve didn't show much of a drop (we didn't get a full curve, just +4, +6, +8). So we increased him to 1 unit. We haven't done a curve since then but his preshot numbers haven't been very low.

It could be rebound. So you think we should drop him down again and see what happens? (We do use u-100 syringes, too).
 
Those U100's are excellent, aren't they?

With that completely abnormal (for him) PS, I would say lower back to .5 and try and catch a few #'s here and there. I also like to catch the +1 and/or +2. Usually (for us) if the +1 is already lower than the PS, then the shot before was slightly high. That doesn't mean that it won't be a good curve, just means that you have more overlap from the previous shot or some pancreas action going on. From what I've seen, usually your +1 will be slightly higher than your PS because it takes a bit for the insulin to kick in. Your boy was on such a low dosage, however, that that MAY not be the case, but it would be good to get some data from that area.

Also, if the dose was too high, expect some wonky #'s to carry through for a few cycles. I'd go back to .5 and stick for a few days while trying to get some #'s for data. It's possible - especially since he was only on .5 of Vetsulin - that the .5 is ALSO too high, which was why you weren't seeing improvements in his #'s, but I wouldn't want to speculate on that until there's more data.
 
The others have some good input.

Please get a spread sheet going and profile - instructions can be found in the top of the tech support form in the stickies here:
viewforum.php?f=6
This will help us help you better.

You are going to have to probably test more. When I switched to ProZinc [from PZI Vet] I unnecessarily help back H's progress because I was lazy [not saying you are being lazy but *I* was lazy and fool hearty] and did not test enough. You probably do not need to do full curves but mini-type-curves at least capturing the important mid-cycle numbers. Once you get things smoothed out then you may be able to back off. But for now get your testing mojo on and post those numbers - ok? :-D
 
Okay, I've updated my profile (had one at the old site but didn't transfer it over), and I'll start with a spreadsheet next.

I am so frustrated because Sebastian was doing so well on Vetsulin-- he frequently was "OTJ" for weeks at a time before he needed a boost again. We switched to Prozinc when his numbers crept up again and the old vial of Vetsulin we had on hand wasn't effective anymore. Now we can't get him under control!

I think we'll try dropping the dose down and do more spot checks, too, than we've been doing. It is hard to fit a true curve in with our busy schedules on the weekends, but I'll try to set aside some time for it ASAP. My husband has a really hard time testing him without my help (Sebastian is a muscular 17 pound STRONG siamese with a temper-- and my husband is an Irish redhead with stereotypical short temper, so the two of them don't mix :lol: ) and I have work obligations the next few Saturdays. Why must everything be so difficult? :-|
 
ooooh, a 17 pound siamese...are'nt they all born with a temper??? :mrgreen:
i was thinking the dose was too high too when i read your first post. i also did'nt otice how long you've been using but i do know there is a week or so of settle time where the #'s will go up as a rule. i'm going back to see how long it's been for you now.
 
ok, a month. the settling has already happened. 1u for the 250's may be high....tho rebound #'s are generally higher. IMHO. it will be interesting to see the SS
 
Good work on the SS. However I cannot access it - so make sure you "share" it [do allow viewing but do not allow others to edit it]. Maybe I'm the only one who cannot access - sometimes this happens to me?
 
Hmmmm.... I clicked on "Share" and allowed people to view it. I'll try fiddling around with it some more.

For the past few days:

Sebastian was 316 yesterday morning, he got 1 unit. Last night, he was 163! We gave him .5.

This morning he was 310, so he got another .5

Sounds like rebound? Is there a number we shouldn't shoot at? For Vetsulin, our "do not shoot" number was 180. Since Prozinc doesn't seem to be dropping him very far, we felt comfortable shooting at lower numbers. Maybe we're doing everything totally wrong though. :?
 
Most people start at 200 and move down, but 180 really isn't that far off.

To me it sounds like rebound. I'd stick with the .5 for at least another cycle. Wonkiness tends to subside over a few cycles. You are not doing everything wrong! You're working through a new insulin and how it reacts with your boy and dealing with the settling in period. That's a lot to take in at once.

The 310 PS was high, but still better than the previous, so an improvement. Give it a few more cycles and try and grab some mid #'s. It will take a bit for the overlap from 1 unit to wear off. Celebrate any and all improvements (any reason to party!) Watch how Sebastian is acting as well. What patterning is he showing? Make notes on your SS and you may see some patterns (I'm big on patterns - both in data and physiological signs.) For example - if my girl hides in the closet, that usually means her BG's have dropped lower than she likes. When she's laying in the middle of my bed, usually that's when she's right in the right place bg wise.
 
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