Science Diet and other terrible ingredient "healing" diets

[Jan D & Squeaky]

Hi Everyone,

My vet offered one of these foods to me for my diabetic, asthmatic, pancreatitic, IBD cat. Since he's been eating raw, mostly grocery food meat (with additions to make a complete diet) for the last 11 years, I balked. Naturally!

Today she sent out the following newsletter. She obviously wrote it for me!!!! I'm interested in reading anyone's thoughts, experiences, and comments!!!

Thanks much, Jan


As a holistic veterinarian, I know that your cat’s diet is the cornerstone to their health, treatment and recovery. I advocate for the cleanest diets possible, trying to remove kibble and switch to a high moisture/high protein diet whenever possible. I’m generally not a fan of prescription diets.

Then I treated Orion for hyperthyroidism, and he taught me a lesson.

Orion has been in my practice since 2015. Last year, we did annual blood work and diagnosed him with hyperthyroidism. This explained a lot of his symptoms.

We started treating with daily medication, and he wasn’t responding. Next, his mom took him to CSU for the gold-standard I-131 treatment. He was the 2% of cats who failed. We tried Chinese herbs, and he didn’t respond. I exhausted all of my regular go-to treatments for hyperthyroidism in cats.

At some point, we decided to let Orion be, with one caveat. We switched him to Science Diet’s prescription YD diet for a year. Last week, I rechecked his labs and his thyroid levels were normal. NORMAL!

I hate Science Diet’s ingredients, and my guess is you do too. The holistic veterinarian in me cringes at the thought of this diet, but I’m learning a valuable lesson. If this is how Orion’s body will allow for us to treat his thyroid disease, I will listen.

Patients like Orion keep me humble and remind me to look at all avenues when determining a treatment plan. He’s now doing better than ever. He’s happy, comfortable, and thriving as a 12 year old kitty and I couldn’t be happier.

With love,
Dr Angie

 

[Ann & Scatcats]

Hi. That food is supposed to be Iodine free.
Read Dr Vet MVD Lisa Pierson's extensive in-depth reasoning about it here https://catinfo.org/feline-hyperthyroidism/

 

[Jan D & Squeaky]

Hi. That food is supposed to be Iodine free.
Read Dr Vet MVD Lisa Pierson's extensive in-depth reasoning about it here https://catinfo.org/feline-hyperthyroidism/

Thank you for the info!

 

[tiffmaxee]

I don’t think it works from what I’ve read.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

I would be very sceptical, especially after reading the article from Lisa Pierson

 

[Jan D & Squeaky]

I would be very sceptical, especially after reading the article from Lisa Pierson

@Jan D & Squeaky Simba was treated with the radioactive Iodine 131 at our Animal Hospital's Oncologist following It's Protocol,, and the hypothyroidic tumor got broken up dissolved, and his very bad blood tests before, became normal after, and his over speeding body systems bcame normal calm again. Sans the diabetes though. But he got lung asthma after it instead. I don't know if that often is the case.
I've heard from another in southern Sweden that at the first vet her cat got the radioactive Iodine 131, it didn't hit its target, the hyperthyroid tumor. She blamed it on that vet, and went elsewhere to another for a second radioactive Iodine 131, and that time it worked.
But since I don't know anything about the background for her cat and case, and what type of vets that was involved, I can't say more than that.
In Sweden the Radioactive Iodine 131 is regulated under The National State Sweden Radiation Safety Authority, Strålsäkerhetsmyndigheten, https://www.stralsakerhetsmyndigheten.se/en/ - plus in Veterinary Medicine it has the follow the Protocols for Hyperthyroid tumors.
I wouldn't give up on it if I were you. Keep searching around there in U.S at other Animal Hospitals for second opionins and research. I know Michigan MSU Veterinary Medicin University and Animal Hospital is very good, and such places might have a better knack for it than a smaller single vet practice.

Well I've always been skeptical. Also it amazes me that this vet who says she is holistic, seems to be very tied to science.

The article is actually about hypothyroidism, which isn't Squeaky's problem.

Could be that the vet just doesn't have a clue how to help. I haven't had much luck with vets. They don't seem to have a very practical bent, it seems. Like their education really gets in their way, or they are too busy with too many animals. Or maybe it's just that it's so expensive to talk to them.

Squeaky is already my biggest expense, more than my housing costs, my food budget or anything else. I am not a person of wealth. I'm just lucky that the feds are giving us unemployment for us self-employed people. Eventually I won't have this much time to spend on him either. We'll just have to see what happens.

 

[Ann & Scatcats]

If it's not Squeaky's problem, basically just simply don't care about it then and stick to your home food.
Problem solved.

 

[Jan D & Squeaky]

If it's not Squeaky's problem, basically just simply don't care about it then and stick to your home food.
Problem solved.

Well iodine and hypothyroidism isn't Squeaky's problem. But I think the vet wants some special scientific food for diabetes. That is my question.

 

[Ann & Scatcats]

Well iodine and hypothyroidism isn't Squeaky's problem. But I think the vet wants some special scientific food for diabetes. That is my question.

Send these to your vet to read then. They've been there on the Main Front Page www.felinediabetes.com under Diet since way before 2006.

• 
  
  
  
• Feline Diabetes and Obesity: The Preventable Epidemics
  An intiguing article by Elizabeth Hodgkins DVM, Esq. discussing the link between diet and two common feline health problems.
• 
  
• Does a low-carb diet increase the risk of ketones in a cat?
  This informal discussion by Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins gives a great description of ketones and how cats process glucose.
  
  
• The Carnivore Connection to Nutrition in Cats by Debra Zoran, DVM, Ph.D., DVACIM. A .pdf article from the December 2002 issue of the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association.
  
  
• Feeding: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition. The web site of Lisa A. Pierson DVM, who is passionate about the critical role of diet in the health of cats.
• 
  
  

 

[Critter Mom]

Also it amazes me that this vet who says she is holistic, seems to be very tied to science.

And you think this is questionable because...?

I hate Science Diet’s ingredients, and my guess is you do too. The holistic veterinarian in me cringes at the thought of this diet, but I’m learning a valuable lesson. If this is how Orion’s body will allow for us to treat his thyroid disease, I will listen.

Patients like Orion keep me humble and remind me to look at all avenues when determining a treatment plan.

I find no fault in this vet's stated position here. In a nutshell, it's that every cat is different, and no stone should be left unturned when trying to find something to help a patient if treatments considered to be preferable/superior fail. Sometimes the 'right' treatment is what actually works for the patient, not what we think the patient should get. In this particular instance surely it was better to try the prescription food - even if the decision was driven by desperation - rather than dismiss it out of hand because iffy ingredients.

All that said, as Ann & Scatcats mentions above, if a second I-131 treatment had not been tried, I think the vet should have offered that option to the client. (It was made clear to me before Lúnasa underwent I-131 therapy that a second treatment might be required because, by default, they are very conservative with the isotope dose and there was a chance the first course might not be completely successful.)


Mogs
.

 

[Jan D & Squeaky]

And you think this is questionable because...?

Sometimes the 'right' treatment is what actually works for the patient, not what we think the patient should get. In this particular instance surely it was better to try the prescription food - even if the decision was driven by desperation - rather than dismiss it out of hand because less than stellar ingredients.

I find no fault in this vet's stated position here. In a nutshell, it's that every cat is different, and no stone should be left unturned when trying to find something to help a patient if treatments considered to be preferable/superior fail. Sometimes the 'right' treatment is what actually works for the patient, not what we think the patient should get. In this particular instance surely it was better to try the prescription food - even if the decision was driven by desperation - rather than dismiss it out of hand because iffy ingredients.

All that said, as Ann & Scatcats mentions above, if a second I-131 treatment had not been tried, I think the vet should have offered that option to the client. (It was made clear to me before Lúnasa underwent I-131 therapy that a second treatment might be required because, by default, they are very conservative with the isotope dose and there was a chance the first course might not be completely successful.)
Mogs
.

Thanks Mogs, well I don't think science is a problem but I don't see her offering alternatives or anything complementary to me. She also has indicated she doesn't exactly trust the advice of this board. That makes me feel a bit uncomfortable with her since I have a lot of faith in following the advice here. It kind of puts us at odds.

I could definitely NOT give my vet articles to read, unless perhaps I wanted to pay her to read them. Whenever I ask a question it's always, Well we should schedule an appointment to talk about this. Burns a hole in my pocket. And Ann, bless her heart, gave a lot of answers about hypothyroidism, but my question was about diabetes.

Yes I get the "whatever works" thing. My whole question in this thread, maybe I didn't say it clearly enough. Did anyone here try any "science" diet with such questionable ingredients and see a difference in their diabetic cats? Does anyone know of a diabetic cat that was helped by one of those diets? Or made worse?

I'm just looking for confirmation or experience about this. I could just try feeding such a diet to Squeaky, but I'd love to hear actual experience giving this type of diet to a diabetic cat that was either successful or not.

We've been feeding raw for 11 years. I can't imagine a change being helpful. However, as you say, whatever works.

I am going to email the vet and ask her which exact food she is recommending for Squeaky. Hopefully she won't charge me to answer that question.

Thanks! I appreciate all input! You guys are the greatest!

 

[Jan D & Squeaky]

Okay here is the exact food they are recommending:

https://www.chewy.com/royal-canin-veterinary-diet-selected/dp/274383

 

[Ti-Mousse (GA) Pepe (GA)]

As per Dr. Pierson's list, Royal Canin Selected Protein Venison has 24% carbs.

 

[THH & Snowcrash (GA)]

Okay here is the exact food they are recommending:

https://www.chewy.com/royal-canin-veterinary-diet-selected/dp/274383

My cats with IBD & pancreatitis are on rabbit protein. Emily is diabetic/pre-diabetic/diet-controlled; she eats Hound & Gatos Rabbit canned, Instinct LID rabbit canned, and Instinct Minced Rabbit recipe (she prefers food she can pick up with her mouth instead of licking). I know the carbs are higher than ideal, but she's done well and hasn't needed insulin since we transitioned her off of dry 2 years ago. She's also on prednisolone.

I have never fed raw, so I can't say if she would have done better or worse on it... all I can say is that the current diet and treatment plan works for her.

(Her meds are: prednisolone 5mg daily, gabapentin as needed for pain management, cerenia 6mg daily, prilosec 5mg daily, methimazole 2.5mg daily, Zrytec 2.5mg daily; FortiFlora, Dasequin, Duralectin added to food)

 

[Jan D & Squeaky]

As per Dr. Pierson's list, Royal Canin Selected Protein Venison has 24% carbs.

Which means..... not so great?

 

[Ti-Mousse (GA) Pepe (GA)]

Which means..... not so great?

For a diabetic cat, for sure not so great..! Hounds & Gatos is low carb (< 5%) except Beef (8%) and Red Meat (12%).

 

[Jan D & Squeaky]

As per Dr. Pierson's list, Royal Canin Selected Protein Venison has 24% carbs.

For a diabetic cat, for sure not so great..! Hounds & Gatos is low carb (< 5%) except Beef (8%) and Red Meat (12%).

So this is why I'm not trusting the vet so much.

Her assistant mentioned she could name some other foods. I will post if they do. Thank you so much for your input.

Personally I think home cooked, all meat, controlled ingredients with no carbs is what he should be eating (and has been eating). Except, sometimes a little carby food mixed with it, to help get the meds down that I hide in the food.

 

[Ti-Mousse (GA) Pepe (GA)]

So this is why I'm not trusting the vet so much.

Her assistant mentioned she could name some other foods. I will post if they do. Thank you so much for your input.

Personally I think home cooked, all meat, controlled ingredients with no carbs is what he should be eating (and has been eating). Except, sometimes a little carby food mixed with it, to help get the meds down that I hide in the food.

I agree, a complete well-balanced raw diet is probably the best ! If my Ti-Mousse could eat raw; I tried but he doesn't like it...

 

[Critter Mom]

Why is she recommending this particular food, Jan? Is it for IBD? If yes, then why is she prescribing something that contains carrageenan (considered to be a pro-inflammatory agent)???


Mogs
.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

There has been an on-going controversy between the FDA and pet food companies who produce "prescription" foods. This is a link from the Veterinary Information Network, a site for vets, that's fairly current. The bottom line is that thee is nothing "prescription" in most of the foods that are labeled as "prescription" diets. It's false advertising. Several of the prescription diabetic diets are, as others noted, high in carbohydrates which is the last thing in the world a diabetic -- human or kitty -- needs.

Feeding your kitty the food your vet recommended would be like a human diabetic eating cookies and ice cream. If you're feeding your cat a raw diet, what would the rationale be to change?

 

[Jan D & Squeaky]

I agree, a complete well-balanced raw diet is probably the best ! If my Ti-Mousse could eat raw; I tried but he doesn't like it...

Why is she recommending this particular food, Jan? Is it for IBD? If yes, then why is she prescribing something that contains carrageenan (considered to be a pro-inflammatory agent)???
Mogs.

There has been an on-going controversy between the FDA and pet food companies who produce "prescription" foods. This is a link from the Veterinary Information Network, a site for vets, that's fairly current. The bottom line is that thee is nothing "prescription" in most of the foods that are labeled as "prescription" diets. It's false advertising. Several of the prescription diabetic diets are, as others noted, high in carbohydrates which is the last thing in the world a diabetic -- human or kitty -- needs. Feeding your kitty the food your vet recommended would be like a human diabetic eating cookies and ice cream. If you're feeding your cat a raw diet, what would the rationale be to change?

Hi Gals, this is from forever ago but I did want to acknowledge your input. I agree with everything you all said. Doesn't make any sense to me, either. But I just wanted to get a second opinion. And she is a holistic vet. You'd think she'd be smarter about this stuff. Well at least she makes house calls.

I don't think Squeaky's diet is 100% balanced at the moment, but it's probably good enough. Because, he isn't having diarrhea like he did before, and his BG numbers are coming down. So, something is going right! Thanks for your messages a long time ago. I've been overwhelmed a bit. .....