Samwise starting on Lantus 6/1

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sueandsamwise

sueandsamwise

Member Since 2010
Hello all! My Samwise is switching insulin on the first. He's been on PZI since last Sept and it just does not seem to be working very well. He's been on a roller coaster of highs and lows and the vet agreed to make a change. She said he will probably not go OTJ since this is the second time he's been on insulin the first time he went OTJ in a month and was for over a year. (diet controlled) I have not been able to get Sam regulated on the PZI at all.
This insulin has me sort of spooked at the moment. nailbite_smile Do you have to make sure the shots are exactly 12 hours apart? I think I read that somewhere but can't find it now.
Sam has also been very sensitive about his ears recently, he's been hissing, growling and threatening to bite, he pulls away anticipating the poke and tearing the ear. Poor boy, I warm his ear up and give treats when he sits still and is a good boy. He's also been growling with the shot too. I do so want him to get regulated, feel better and maybe he will quit hissing and having a fit before his shots. :YMSIGH:
Sam is on canned FF and eats a can or two a day, depending on how he feels and if I can keep it away from our resident piggy civvie, Ghost. I do test, usually getting the preshots and a +6. I have been using the U100 needles.

Well, that's us. I look forward to meeting you all. :mrgreen:
 
welcome!

well my browser decided my first attempt at posting was not good enough, so it deleted it. c'est la vie.

there is a fantastic community here at lantus filled with knowledgeable people. i'm sure they will dive right in and give you great advice. i know very little about pzi or transitioning from one insulin to another, however i'm quite sure there are people here who have done it, and will be able to lend a hand.

in the meantime- some of what you read about lantus can be found in the stickies at the top of the board. they are filled with information above and beyond anything I could say here. they are truly comprehensive and include information about the tight protocol (the standard used for dosing here) and storage and handling for lantus, as well as additional information about how it works.

try a little neosporin pain relief on the ears- many people here love it.

please keep asking questions, this group loves data and questions!

see you around!
 
Welcome, Sue and Samwise! :)

All I can say is that Lantus is a 12 hour insulin, and your kitty will develop a "shed" of it. I'm sure that someone will come along here shortly and explain everything to you. When you have a moment, go ahead and read the stickies at the top of the board. They've got a wealth of invaluable information in them, and you can put them in your favorites to refer back to if you need to. I refer back to the stickies once in a while.

I used to have Blackie on ProZinc, but after some time, she didn't seem to be responding too well with it, so we've switched her to the Lantus. She's been on it since 07/25/2010. She's regulated nicely on it, and now am receiving help on trying to get her diet more regulated.

Lantus is a very good insulin, and I was scared at first, too. You will soon get used to it, and its use. :) I think quite a few of us use the syringes that have the 1/2 unit markings on them, and with the short needles (5/16", 8mm). The 1/2 unit markings makes it a lot easier to dose more accurately. That may be something to consider trying, and Samwise may not feel it. :) (crossing fingers and paws)

Again, welcome to this wonderful board. :) I'm looking forward to getting to know you and Samwise! :)
 
Lantus does work best on a twice daily, 12 hour apart shots. The experts here will give you better advice though than I can.
I agree that the way to go is the shorter needles. And be sure to rotate the area where you shoot him in. And neosporin on the ears really does help with sensitivity. I'm sure once Samwise gets better regulated, he'll feel better and less growling will occur.

I'm sure more insight will come as more LL members turn up, this community is fabulous and will be here for you. Try not to stress too much. It will get better.
 
Yes, it will get better. I've been stressed out (probably more times than I can count), and these ladies on here helped me get through it. They'll help you, and others who have just joined us, to get through their situations. :) The main thing to have is... Patience. :) And believe me, I'm not a 100% patient person. LOL Not with some things anyway. :oops:
 
Welcome Sue & Samwise!

Can't add much to what the others have said except, read, read, read :-D

You didn't mention what Lantus dose your vet wanted you to start Samwise on, but you will probably be advised here to start him on 1u. Lantus is a long acting insulin and acts differently than PZI.

As for the shots, sometimes it helps to let the syringed insulin warm up a bit before you shoot (just with air temp, or holding it in your hand for a bit - not water or the microwave!). Also, most of us shoot while kitty is busily eating - seems to bother them less. And as for the ears, I just started using the Neosporin with pain relief and it really has helped. It might also help to wrap him like a burrito to test him so he doesn't squirm (yeah I know, my cat won't go for that :-D )

Lastly, there are cats here that have gone OTJ (off the juice) a second time - it just usually takes longer. My Jesse is back on insulin and it is my goal to get him diet-controlled again.
 
It sounds like you've been under a lot of stress!

The only advice I can offer you that I haven't seen suggested yet is to ask for the Solostar pens when you get your prescription. They come in a box of 5 pens, and yes, they are more expensive up front ($220 for us vs. $115 for a vile) but the overall cost is much lower. Some places (compounding pharmacies, Costco, and hospitals) will break a box and sell the pens individually. We don't have a Costco here, and the hospital outpatient pharmacy has bad hours for us (not open on weekends), so it was easier to just get the box.

My vet didn't know these could be used for cats and was reluctant to write the script because she didn't know we could use our regular syringes with them (necessary for accurate dosing), but we convinced her and I just got them and started one for Willy and we like them. They are more economical AND they can be left out and still be effective (for the "28 days" recommended) once they are opened (unused, unopened pens need to be stored in the fridge). We keep our pen in the fridge still, but it is a load off our minds since my DH has a track record of leaving the vile out overnight and then we have to make a very expensive replacement weeks before we should've had to because the insulin became less effective!

The other advice I recommend is reading up on how to handle Lantus correctly. I haven't used any other insulin, but I know some can be treated a little bit more roughly-- Lantus isn't one of them. Everything our vet had told us to do with Lantus (roll it before using :roll: ) when we were first starting out was actually very wrong.

A lot of folks do ear pricks for home testing. For us, this is NOT an option. No amount of kitty burrito, treats, loving, practice, patience, etc. has allowed Willy to accept this process, so we do pad pricks as an alternative. He is completely fine with it. I'm not sure if this is something you could consider or if your kitty just needs a little more time and patience with his ears.

Lastly, don't forget to breath!

Welcome!
Stephanie & Willy
 
My vet is starting Sammy out on 1U. I read the stickies up top and hope I can do this right. I feel I have experience with insulin, (the Pzi) but Lantus is different in the not rolling it before shooting like Pzi and not putting it back in the vial if you draw to much. I'm afraid I can't afford the pens and will have to use the 10ml vial. I just have to remember not to roll it!
I've also been using the Neosporin with pain relief. It seems to help.

My vet is sort of weird about the insulin. She tells me not to test then go ahead and keep testing. She also said I didn't need to test before each shot. Well, I got all huffy and told her "Would you tell your diabetic grandmother not to test before a shot! I think not!" Most of the vets in this town don't seem to know much about diabetes in cats. One told me to look in the litterbox to see if the insulin was working. :shock:
 
Hi Sue, welcome to LL! We started out on ProZinc, and switched to Lantus after 3 months. Mr Tinkles had a chronic URI, and the wide swings on PZ only seemed to feed the infection. I hope Sam will have as much success with Lantus as Mr Tinkles has. Everyone has already told you to read the stickies...there's a ton of info there.

Lantus likes consistency, both in dosing and schedule. You will need to stick to as close to a 12/12 shot schedule as possible. Is it going to be hard for you to shoot on a 12/12 schedule? If you can explain your situation, we can help you figure out how to work around it.

Does Sam have any history of ketones? Any other health issues or history of other health issues? Does he take any medications? Has he ever had a dental, and if so, when was his last dental done?

One unit sounds like a good starting dose. It will take 5-7 days for the shed to form, in the meantime, Sam's numbers may be pretty high. You will need to be patient and hold the dose unless he earns a reduction. Some cats will see an immediate response to the Lantus, so for the first 3 days, it is suggested to monitor closely by testing at PS, +3, +6 and +9.

I assume that your u100 syringes have 1/2 unit markings, since you were using them to do 0.2u dose adjustments for PZI. ;-) That's important because dose adjustments are usually done by 0.25u.

Lantus is very different from PZI, it will require learning a completely different approach to dosing. I hope you will post a condo every day so we can get to know you and Sam!
 
Welcome Sue!

It's great that you've already got a spreadsheet (SS) up and linked. Having the PZI info available to review is very helpful. Because of the degree of overlap due to the long-acting nature of this insulin, you don't have as much flexibility as with some other types of insulin. Like Laurie mentioned, Lantus does best with 12/12 shooting but we've all had to move a shot time on occasion. If your schedule is complicated, maybe we can help with trying to adjust.

If you've not already done so, take some time to read the starred sticky notes at the top of the Board. Below is an overview of what they contain.
  • Tight Regulation Protocol: This sticky contains the dosing protocol that we use here. There are also links to the more formal versions -- the Tilly Protocol developed by the counterpart of this group in Germany and the Queensland/Rand protocol developed by Jacqui Rand, DVM and published in one of the top vet journals.
  • New to the Group: Everything you wanted to know about this forum and more. Info on our slang, FAQs, links to sites on feline nutrition and to food charts containing carb counts, how to do a curve and the components to look for, important aspects of diabetes such as ketones, DKA, and neuropathy, and most important, info on hypoglycemia.
  • Handling Lantus: how to get the maximum use from your insulin and what to not do with it!
  • Lantus depot/shed: This is an important concept for understanding how Lantus works.
  • Becoming Data Ready: What data you need in order to be able to work toward remission or tight regulation.

Please ask questions and let us know how we can help.
 
I can do the 12/12 shots, that's no problem. I usually do Sam in the morning after I put on the face and evening is not a problem. My DH is home during the days so he can watch Sam, however, he's on meds that make him a bit stupid so I don't know if he can handle fine tuning the dose. I'll have to explain it to him. I'll have him read the stickies at the top I guess. He can also do the +'s. We are usually home most of the time so we should have no problem. I'm a bit rattled about this stuff but I've done the PZI so hopefully I won't screw this up. It's my Sammy's well being after all.
 
Hello Sue,

Smokey and I wanted to welcome you to Lantus and hope that you get your baby on a good dose soon! Post whatever questions you have and someone always comes by to assist!

I look forward to seeing your posts in the future!
 
Thank you Smokey. I've read the stickies at least 5 times I am so nervous about it. The shed thing especially. I'll soldier on though. ;-) Look for my first condo tomorrow!
 
what i've realized is that you can't absorb all the info at once - as you need to know something people will tell you. everyone keeps their eyes on folks who are just starting out to help them get going smoothly. don't worry about knowing it all now. we're 3+ months into it and i still reread when i need new information.

and welcome! i love samwise's name - is he named after the LOTR? do you have a frodo at home too? :-D
 
Good morning and welcome!! You've gotten great advice so far! Quick tip... there are some locations that will sell the Solostar pens one at a time. Many costcos will do this (you don't need a membership to use the pharmacy per state law nationwide) as will many outpatient pharmacies at hospitals. Might not hurt to call around, though you will need a script specifically for the pens.

Willie and I look forward to learning more about you and Samwise!!
 
Welcome Sue and Samwise!

My Guinness's story is very similar to Samwise's. We also are on our second attempt at OTJ. The first attempt went very well with him going OTJ after about a month. He was in remission (or on his honeymoon) for about a year and a half (diet controlled) and then suddenly, with no explanation popped out of remission. I've been on a tireless search to figure out why he came off of his honeymoon (dental, thyroid, etc), but haven't found an answer yet. It's been tough to get his numbers regulated and down this time around. The highest amount of insulin we went to during the first go round was 2u, we are now at 8.5u this time around. All cats are different, so I'm sure they are not exactly alike, but I have been told, it can be hard to get them off of insulin a second time. I was told hard, but not impossible, so that's what I am clinging to. I've been working hard to test and shoot within a restricted work schedule and just this week, he's started to drop his numbers. So, we are encouraged!

It's all overwhelming at first, even if you've been here before, but it will get easier. You will find your flow and get into the grove of things. It may take some time, be frustrating and maddening, but everyone here in Lantus Land is so helpful and supportive! I'll be keeping a good thought for you guys!
 
julie1220 said:
what i've realized is that you can't absorb all the info at once - as you need to know something people will tell you. everyone keeps their eyes on folks who are just starting out to help them get going smoothly. don't worry about knowing it all now. we're 3+ months into it and i still reread when i need new information.

and welcome! i love samwise's name - is he named after the LOTR? do you have a frodo at home too? :-D
Click to expand...
No Frodo but we have a Baggins. She's a civvie female and a right ***** too. She hates every other animal but will tolerate her brother (Sam) sometimes. She's a pistol. :lol:
 
Dearest Sue,
I will be eagerly watching your progress here as I always did (whether you knew or not) on PZI. My Tom did a big turn around here on similiar insulin Levemir and I soooooo look forward to watching Sam do the same. Me and Tom are wishing you both all the luck in the world....
With Love and high (or should I say 'low') hopes!
Lori
 
This is sort of a bump Sue. Get you back up there where folks can see you.
That was quite a drop at +6 with the lantus considering you are shed building at the moment.
Want to get some eyes on your spread sheet.
 
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