RUMPELTEAZER - 3-19-13

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BJM said:
Here. One drop? Or will you be home to monitor if you give 0.25 units?
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I will be home to monitor. Will give .25 units and test @ +2 +4 +6 +8 +10 +12

Is this good?
 
Gave .25 units @ 8:35AM

Will test as indicated in prior post.
She was "ravenously" hungry during feeding this morning.

Be back soon....have to shovel driveway/sidewalks...SNOW/SLEET/RAIN overnight + this morning.....U G L Y ..... cat(2)_steam
 
Lots of snow out east again; glad its not me! I have Raynaud's, so cold weather makes my hands extremely painful.

You can steer the curve by offering her 2-3 teaspoons of low carb food at each test.
 
BJM said:
Lots of snow out east again; glad its not me! I have Raynaud's, so cold weather makes my hands extremely painful.

You can steer the curve by offering her 2-3 teaspoons of low carb food at each test.
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Snow still coming down. :roll:

My fingers/toes were frost-bitten from when I was a kid. Long story. I know how painful cold can be.

I will offer the 'treat-food' as you indicate.

Sorry for kind of 'jumping ahead' and doing things without waiting for responses, but since everyone is on a different work/sleep schedule than me (yeah...got up an hour late for work again last night), I am trying to make good-judgement calls on my own. I just hope I don't screw up.

I keep wondering about something: I wonder what would be happening/or would have happened if I kept on the 1 unit dose & only tested at AMPS/PMPS like my vet told me to do.....maybe I DON'T want to know. "IF" I do go back to her next week, she is gonna freak-out on me for doing what I have been per everyone's instructions here. I hope we get RumpelT on real good numbers and stuff by then so I can tell her to go pound sand up her ***.
 
You can tell your vet you were worried about her going low (and share the ss where she did just that) and say you have been gradually reducing the dose and watching her numbers carefully. Listen to the vet's advice and then come back here. (you hold the syringe; she doesn't)

The truth - she would have been in the ER and maybe fighting for her life.
 
If she kvetches, ask if she will pay for the vet bill and burial costs if Rumpelteazer has a hypo by following her directions blindly. There is a lot to be said for partnering with your clients, rather than expecting blind obedience.
 
misty1477 said:
...SS pattern seems similar to yesterday at this point.
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Yes, it does. She's still a bit higher than is optimal, so when you'll be awake, you might try fattening the dose during the day or going with 0.25 at night (once you feel comfortable it won't make her drop too low) may bring it a little bit lower without giving you a heart attack :smile:
 
435 @ 4:35PM (Not a typo..... LOL)

Did not give treat after this test.

Today's SS is still looking pretty close to yesterdays. Explanation....anyone???
 
Well, I'll take a stab at it. Yesterday and today, the high number at +8 could be a bounce from the lower +4 number. Yesterday, she leveled off after that high number. If that is the case, we have to wait until her body stops reacting to the lower number and she evens out.

Or, it could be that the dose is not quite enough so the numbers go up early.

Or a combination of the two.

The trouble with this sugar dance is that there are no absolutes. Truly, every cat's reaction to insulin is different. And with her, we are being very careful because she seems to react fairly early in the cycle and has big drops.

Let's see what the rest of the cycle looks like and consider tonight and tomorrow. I know we are being more cautious at night because you can't monitor. That makes it more complicated to find the right dose.

But we are trying. :mrgreen:
 
I will test again @ 6:45 and then @ 7:45PM (PMPS Time). Jeepers Cats....I try to watch the news and ONE show....never see the whole thing :roll:

She is AWESOME about ear poking....and.....they bleed real easy. Lovin' it. I am dancing_cat
 
Am I reading correctly that you do not feed overnight? If you are feeding, I think giving 0.25 units is likely to be safe to do at night.

She does like to dive in the first 2-3 hours after getting the insulin; steering that with little meals at +2 and +4 seem to help her level out sooner.

Coming back up may have to do with the food timing - maybe give a bit more at breakfast to help handle the dive and just a small amount for the first 2 or 3 tests over 6 hours.
 
WHAT IS UP WITH THIS !?!??!?!?

RumpelT wanted to play "the chase game" (as we call it) with me. She hasn't wanted to play this in quite a while. She does this weird "meowww...meowwww' thing and wants me to chase her around. We used to play it a lot.

Then....she started playing with one of the kitteh toys. It is a round thing with a mouse on ball bearings inside that kittehs can give the mouse a little push and it zooms around inside....they can then find it through one of the openings and give it another push.

Then... she started chasing on of my other kittehs around the living room.


HAVEN'T SEEN THIS MUCH ACTION FROM HER IN A FEW MONTHS!!! YAY!!! flip_cat dancing_cat :RAHCAT cat_pet_icon
 
That's wonderful!

Have you looked at my signature link, Secondary Monitoring Tools? To give a whole cat report, identify how each of the 5 Ps is!
 
BJM said:
Am I reading correctly that you do not feed overnight? If you are feeding, I think giving 0.25 units is likely to be safe to do at night.

She does like to dive in the first 2-3 hours after getting the insulin; steering that with little meals at +2 and +4 seem to help her level out sooner.

Coming back up may have to do with the food timing - maybe give a bit more at breakfast to help handle the dive and just a small amount for the first 2 or 3 tests over 6 hours.
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I do NOT feed overnight...she eats after PMPS. None of the kittehs eat after that. They ALL....especially RumpelT are ready to chew my legs off when I come home after work. RumpelT eats real fast and then goes over to everybody else's bowls to get more.

I let her eat as much breakfast as she wants. I bet it is at least 1-1/2 cans of FF.

Gotta run....test time.
 
377 @ 6:35PM (+10)

Gobbled down 2 tsps. of FF as treat.

She seems very hyper-active this afternoon. Being a "silly girl" like she used to be.
 
OK, I have been looking at your spreadsheet, and doing a lot of this and this .

Something(s) just doesn't make sense.

This is Prozinc. It isn't supposed to onset and start really affecting BGs until 3-4 hours after the shot. I know, I know, ECID and all that stuff...

But I look at the AM cycles, and I see these huge drops by +1 and +2. At +3, I might buy them. By +4 for sure. But not as early as at +2. It doesn't make logical sense. It takes 1-2 hours for the carb boost from eating to reach its peak. It makes very little logical sense to see a sharp drop by +1, unless you shoot into a number that is dropping already. Even then it doesn't make sense, because the food should be stopping any drop, just like it will do during a hypo.

So look at the AM cycle on 3/17, and tell me what caused a hundred point drop an hour after the shot? (And for the sake of discussion, let's leave the whole +/-20% fudge factor out of it, because all that does is confuse things). I don't put much weight behind the 20% argument anyway. It makes it way too easy to make the numbers fit what you want them to be. I try to take them at face value as much as possible, and deal with what the meter is telling you.

Hint - the correct answer to what caused that drop, IMHO, is NOT the AM shot.


One more question - has RumpelT been tested for, or diagnosed with Hyper-Thyroid?

Carl
 
Misty,
The visible signs you are seeing - her being more like her playful pre-diabetic self....? That says more than any numbers on the meter, in my opinion. Playful = great sign.
 
Misty will have to remind us, Carl, but I don't think there was a shot that morning. Once we saw the numbers dropping, we held off on insulin and she stayed in the 200s all day.
 
OK, then the answer to my question should be even easier to come up with ;-)

I would ask the same question about the morning of the 16th. And I am positive, because she didn't give a shot the night of the 15th, that the AMBG reading was not a falling number from a super long-lasting dose.

Compare those two days with the AM cycle on the 14th, where 1u "only" dropped her 100 points...
 
Carl & Bob said:
OK, I have been looking at your spreadsheet, and doing a lot of this and this .

Something(s) just doesn't make sense.

This is Prozinc. It isn't supposed to onset and start really affecting BGs until 3-4 hours after the shot. I know, I know, ECID and all that stuff...

But I look at the AM cycles, and I see these huge drops by +1 and +2. At +3, I might buy them. By +4 for sure. But not as early as at +2. It doesn't make logical sense. It takes 1-2 hours for the carb boost from eating to reach its peak. It makes very little logical sense to see a sharp drop by +1, unless you shoot into a number that is dropping already. Even then it doesn't make sense, because the food should be stopping any drop, just like it will do during a hypo.

So look at the AM cycle on 3/17, and tell me what caused a hundred point drop an hour after the shot? (And for the sake of discussion, let's leave the whole +/-20% fudge factor out of it, because all that does is confuse things). I don't put much weight behind the 20% argument anyway. It makes it way too easy to make the numbers fit what you want them to be. I try to take them at face value as much as possible, and deal with what the meter is telling you.

Hint - the correct answer to what caused that drop, IMHO, is NOT the AM shot.


One more question - has RumpelT been tested for, or diagnosed with Hyper-Thyroid?

Carl
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ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile Now I am REALLY getting confused !!!

Vet had said she was "...not Hyper ... T4" . I remember those words.

Carl.....what are you trying to tell me?

It is getting near for test-food-shot.

Please explain what you are thinking.
 
Carl & Bob said:
OK, then the answer to my question should be even easier to come up with ;-)

I would ask the same question about the morning of the 16th. And I am positive, because she didn't give a shot the night of the 15th, that the AMBG reading was not a falling number from a super long-lasting dose.

Compare those two days with the AM cycle on the 14th, where 1u "only" dropped her 100 points...
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Carl....I give up.....what is the answer?????
 
Misty,
I asked about Hyper T because it can cause hyper metabolism. My thinking on that was "If he's hyper-T, could he be processing insulin a lot faster than a "normal" diabetic cat would? If that's been ruled out, then it's not a concern.
 
misty1477 said:
Carl & Bob said:
OK, then the answer to my question should be even easier to come up with ;-)

I would ask the same question about the morning of the 16th. And I am positive, because she didn't give a shot the night of the 15th, that the AMBG reading was not a falling number from a super long-lasting dose.

Compare those two days with the AM cycle on the 14th, where 1u "only" dropped her 100 points...
Click to expand...


Carl....I give up.....what is the answer?????
Click to expand...

Misty,
I am hoping that Sue, BJ and others will take a shot at answering. Sort of a "group quiz". I'm not trying to keep you in suspense! I want to know if others are seeing the same thing I am seeing. It won't affect what you do or don't do tonight as far as any shot goes.
 
Carl & Bob said:
Misty,
I asked about Hyper T because it can cause hyper metabolism. My thinking on that was "If he's hyper-T, could he be processing insulin a lot faster than a "normal" diabetic cat would? If that's been ruled out, then it's not a concern.
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Okay....I found where I wrote it down in my log book....well, vet tech wrote it. Says "Not hyper T4".

Shall I proceed as I have been the past day or two? I was a little confused by her SS because ProZinc is supposed to "peak" between +5 and +7...where lowest numbers should be (right?). Her low numbers seem to be at +4 the past couple days. This is all so confusing.

I will be testing her again today at 8:35PM (+12) and then feeding the gang. I hope someone is here so I get an idea as to how much to shoot. I need to get some sleep before work. I understand this is hard on RumpelT but I am really trying to understand all of this and get her on a better schedule....It is not good that I am oversleeping about an hour every night for work. I don't even here my alarms go off...a friend at work has been calling to see if I am up....but is an hour late!! God knows how long I would sleep if no phone call. Sorry about the whining. :roll:
 
I am confused in general about Rumpletezer, Carl. I agree the early onset is unusual and the times she has come down on her own do not make a pattern I can discern. We have done a little experimenting with food to bring up that early onset but haven't seen anything exciting. Please let us know what you are thinking.

Misty, I think the question for tonight is whether you want to try the .25 when you will be gone or the one drop you gave last night. If you were going to be around, I would definitely say the .25 or if you can leave out food that she can sure have access to. But I am always aware she is not my cat and you are the one holding the syringe.
 
I give up ......

They are all sitting here staring at me and I can hardly keep my eyes open. Every evening is miserable for all of us.

I really don't know what the heck to do already. 1 drop .... .25 units....food out all night.....no food out all night. I cannot help it that I work all night and cannot sleep during the day.

I feel like I am losing my mind !

Time for test.
 
Hi guys:
I know I am late to the party here, but what kind of food does Rumpelteazer get? Do you normally feed real low carb, and bring her up or feed the drop with high carb food (gravy food)?
 
Reason I ask is if you want to shoot the higher dose and are a bit nervous, you could feed a bit of higher carb food. I also feed higher carb if I think my cat is going to go low and I am going to be gone all day at work.
 
Post the number and we'll figure it out, Misty
 
donnahc said:
Hi guys:
I know I am late to the party here, but what kind of food does Rumpelteazer get? Do you normally feed real low carb, and bring her up or feed the drop with high carb food (gravy food)?
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Now talk about "high Carb" food??? Thank you for more confusion. <<<<bangs hand on head>>>>
 
Skip the shot is my opinion. Her number is dropping and has been for the past few hours. She's trying to regulate herself.

Carl
 
Sorry, Misty. We are just trying to brainstorm to help. Donna will be posting while I am gone and she wants to get up to speed on Rempel. Donna, we have had luck just giving low carb food for her two hypos. Misty is feeding all low carb.
 
Carl & Bob said:
Skip the shot is my opinion. Her number is dropping and has been for the past few hours. She's trying to regulate herself.

Carl
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Shall I leave food out overnight and hope the others don't eat it? Her SS looks kind of like it did yesterday.
 
Carl & Bob said:
When did she eat today? Besides at breakfast.
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She had 1 or 2 tsps. of FF after her tests except one of them. And one time (I think the one after breakfast (shot) she didn't eat it.
 
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