Rocco's 1st Curve

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nichi403

nichi403

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So, I did Rocco's 1st curve today. I feel bad for torturing his poor little ears, but he was a champ and didn't run under the bed. I had so many errors, but in the end...I only had to do one stick. I guess it comes with practice. So without further ado...here are his numbers: (I know there is a spreadsheet, I just have to figure it out).

7am-79 (followed by feeding and 1/2 unit of insulin)
9am-59
11am- 46
1pm-52
3pm-55
5pm-56
7pm-61 (followed by feeding and 1/2 unit of insulin

My BG numbers were 22 pts lower then the vet's BG meter when he went in last Monday. So if she thinks he is doing good...there is a possibility that he can be off insulin all together. I will find out when I talk to her tomorrow. He has been spazzing out after he eats, its so cute to see him run around like a squirrel on crack again.

Nicole and Rocco
 
Hi Nicole,
First, on your spreadsheet, the numbers should go horizontally across the page. Like 7am would be the PS number, and then 9am would be the +2 column, 11am the +4, etc.
That said.... Rocco was at 79 this morning? If that is the case, then no insulin was needed at all. "Normal" is from 50-120 or so, and as long as Rocco is in that range, you don't need to shoot insulin.
Can you check to see what sort of number you have right now?

Carl in SC
 
Carl,

OK, I checked his BG level just now and it was 69. Thanks for clarifying the spreadsheet, I redid it and I hope its correct now. I will only stop the insulin if the vet advises me to do so. She took him from 1 unit to 1/2 unit and he has been at that dose for a week. The plan was for me to do the curve today, call her with the results and we will go from there. Hopefully, she will tell me to stop the insulin and I can treat him with diet alone. I am sure he won't mind not having the shots.

Nicole and Rocco
 
You should not be giving him insulin if he doesn't need it, regardless of what ANYONE says. A normal cat BG #'s are in the range of 50-120. Giving a cat insulin when he is in the normal range can make him go hypo, which has very serious consequences.

I urge you to wait and get a second opinion ... we have helped thousands of people with their diabetic kittens over the years and we only have you and Rocco's wellness at heart. Maybe your vet doesn't understand that he is running so low??
 
That is why i did the curve, so i can talk about the results with her tomorrow. She said depending on the numbers, he can go off insulin. I am just apprehensive about stopping it before i talk to her. I am pretty confident that she will tell me to stop the insulin. I don't want to prick his little ears again, especially since i stuck him alot today. I will ask her when i talk to her tomorrow about doing another curve in a week.
IF, i chose to not give him his insulin shot tomorrow morning after his meal, what should i be on the lookout for? I appreciate the concern, but i am apprehensive about stopping the insulin without talking it over with his vet. I don't mind doing another curve with him off insulin, i just want to give his small, sore ears a break. I did try to test on his paws, but i never got enough blood.
 
Nancy,
Sorry, i had already posted my response when i thought of something. When the vet compared the results from their bg meter to my bg meter, theirs was higher by 22 points. So with that info...should i still forego his insulin shot in the am?
 
You don't have to do a curve everyday, just before it is time to give him his shot. If in the morning he is below 100 I would call the vet before I gave him his shot .... with these numbers it will not hurt him. I know you want to do the best for him, we all do .... all of us have diabetic cats, my cat Payne almost died four times from DKA and the people on this site saved me. The advice they gave me was priceless and today my Payne is doing wonderful, I just want that for Rocco.

A curve is something you do every couple of weeks or once a week. Usually what you are looking for is the PS # and maybe a +4 or +6 .... call the vet in the morning before you do anything and tell her what his #'s are.
I will be sending good thoughts your way Nicole, I know you love him ....

All meters have a 20% variance. The best thing is to find a meter you like and that takes little blood and stick with it.
 
Nancy,
lately when i have tested him, his numbers have never been above 100. I was thinking about doing another curve next week since i am 99.9% positive that she will have me stop the insulin when i talk to her tomorrow. I will be sure to let you know what she says. Not only did i leave her his numbers on her voicemail, i emailed her the spreadsheet. I won't give him his am shot after his meal and see how he does. I am sure he will be ok. Thanks for the advice.
 
Nicole,
I have warched an animal die from insulin shock. It was horrible. PLEASE do not give Rocco another shot of insulin if his BG is below normal (120) on YOUR meter.
Carl
 
Nicole,
Obviously you trust your vet which is great. I trust mine as well. And i can look at your SS and see that rocco survives when you shoot. 5 into a 60 or 70. But what the vet told you about the two meters and 22 points? That may have been the case for that single test but only that test. Your meter and her meter each have maegins of error. If you test rocco and get a 100, his actaul bg could be anywhere from 80 to 120. The vet meter isn't perfect either. If she told you it would always be off by 22 points, thenshee is incorrect. You sort of playing russian roulette shooting when rocco doesn't need insulin. Please talk to her before shooting this morning?
Carl
 
It is very disturbing to me that you are shooting insulin into those low readings. That is very dangerous.

The people here are giving you good advice, please listen. There is a saying concerning Blood Glucose readings (BGs)...better too high for a day, than too low for a minute. PLEASE do not continue to give Rocco insulin when he has these low readings.
 
I am taking your advice and NOT giving him anymore insulin. I just fed him his FF can and he is acting like his normal self chasing the other cats. One of the things that i have read here is that you can't take away insulin after it has been given...i will trust your judgment and let you know what the vet says.
I know you have rocco's best interest at heart and have helped hundreds, if not thousands of parents with feline diabetes. So no more insulin. Considering i tortured him yesterday, i want to avoid pricking him for a few days...when should i test him to see how he is managing off the insulin? Again, thank you for your love and support.

Nicole and Rocco
 
So glad you are being cautious this morning. I would continue to test in the am and the pm and keep track of the numbers. We usually say a cat is in remission if they have been off insulin for 2 weeks and their numbers have stayed below 100-120 consistently. A normal cat's bg levels, without insulin, tend to run anywhere from 40 - 120, with the majority of the time in the double digits.

Remember once a diabetic, always a diabetic. A number of cats have thrown diabetic numbers again after eating dry food or high carb treats. Sometimes this has been reversible with a return to wet lo carb, but not always.
 
Hi Nicole,
Just checking to see how the vet was this morning and how Rocco is? What was her advice? I know this is hard, there is so much to learn but I would LOVE to have Rocco's numbers. (well not me personally :)

So come back to us and let us know how everything is going.
Nancy
 
The vet got my email and voice message and called me this morning and told me to not give him anymore insulin. To keep an eye on him to see if he starts to drink alot of water, to do another curve in a month and call her with his results.
So she is telling me to check his bg in a month, is that too long to wait? Lately, after he eats he runs around like a mad kitty, but today, without the insulin...he went back to bed and hasn't moved since. He's not drinking any water, just sleeping
if you want to see his numbers, i put the link to the spreadsheet on an earlier post under this heading. He was waiting for me to give him his shot after he finished eating for a few minutes then curled up and went to sleep.
I know he is not "cured" of diabetes, i am fortunate to be able to see if it can be controlled through diet. I will keep him on his current diet of FF. Thanks for everything.

Nicole and Rocco
 
Personally? I would test once a day for the next week or two and then if still no insulin, start stretching it out. To wait a month is, well, TOO cautious.
 
I tested Bob twice a day after his last shot to confirm he was sugar free. After that it became once a day, then more random. It's been two months yesterday and now I check his BG once weekly, just at some random time.I wouldn't worry about a curve though, since insulin from shots will no longer be a part of the picture. Pre-shot tests are sort of pointless without shots. You can test before feeding, then a couple hours later to see how much the food makes the BG rise. And in between meals maybe to make sure his pancreas is doing it's job... at this point I rely more on how Bob looks and acts on a daily basis. And I still check for ketones regularly. Definitely check BG daily for at least a couple of weeks. You need to make sure Rocco stays in the normal range so that if he does go up a bit you can catch it quickly. And yeah, he (and you) will miss the dance for at least a little while. :)
CarlCarl
 
I tortured his poor little ears yesterday and want to give them a break and let them heal. I kept getting error messages, so i had to stick him a few more times then i wanted too. I will test him tomorrow. How long after he eats should i test his bg? I thought waiting a whole month to test him was too long.
What should i do with his remaining insulin? I know i can keep it safely in the fridge for a few months. I want to keep it on hand just in case, but considering how expensive it is, i don't mind giving the remaining glargine to someone who needs it once i know rocco will no longer need it and it hasn't expired. Is that safe?
 
There are no rules. Just test him a couple times a day - whenever it is convenient.

I would keep the lantus for at least a couple weeks until you are sure he is in remission. Then you can offer it to someone in the supply closet.
 
Nicole
By all means, give his ears a break! One day won't hurt.
When Bob quit needing insulin, I had a nearly expired and almost empty vial in the fridge and a brand new vial with an exp date in december. The old vial went in the trash. The new one I kept for a month and then recently was donated and shipped cross country in an ice packed cooler. That was PZI, which is usually shipped cold. I am not sure on yours. Perhaps once it's been cold it must stay cold? Someone here must know for sure.
Carl
 
Nicole, I just want to add that you did a really good job taking care of Rocco. It is hard when your vet says one thing and then you hear opposing views. But you totally did the best thing for Rocco.

Yes, Rocco will always be a diabetic cat .... you will always need to watch his food and keep an eye on his #'s. But the good news is for now you are controlling his diabetes through diet, that is awesome!

Remember if he gets an infection, needs a dental or gets into dry food, etc. you will need to test him because those things can raise his numbers.

I was very proud of you last night and I could feel your confusion, but you totally did what was best for Rocco, you are a good Mama Bean! (what our sugar cats call us :)

Keep reading and learning but so far, really good.
Nancy
 
Thanks for the support. He is kinda confused as to why he isn't getting a shot after meals anymore. I mean, he knew they were making him feel better, he didn't mind them at all. I am just blessed that I can control his diabetes though diet so soon. Once I know he will no longer need the insulin, I will post something on the message board so another kitty in need can use it.
It has been a complete roller coaster. I had a pretty strong suspension that he was starting to become diabetic and I didn't take him to the vet due to finances. I was thankful to hear about the PAWS (Pets Are Wonderful Support) organization which helps low income people keep their pets healthy. I was able to get $200 credit for 2 of cats though a vet. I felt horrible that it took me so long to get him treatment. The good news is that once I got approved for the PAWS program, I set up an appointment. My mother told me to put him down; "who would want a 12 y/o diabetic cat??" She was telling me that I am making him suffer for my own selfish reasons. If I can't afford the cost of caring for a diabetic cat, then I should give him up. I think that was more upsetting then learning Rocco was diabetic. So when I told her that he was off the insulin her remark was 'you had the right decision by not putting him down". DUH!! I would do anything for Rocco (I have a tattoo of him on my arm) and if there was anything I could do, that was in my power, to make his quality of life better...then I will do it.
So THANK YOU for all of your support and advice. Are their certain breeds that I more prone to diabetes? Rocco is a Blue Russian, lynx mix. Thank you so much!!

Nic and Rocco
 
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