Rex - newly diagnosed 3/22/17

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Mandy & Rex (GA)

Mandy & Rex (GA)

Member Since 2017
Hi all,

To summarize, I have 4 indoor male cats. Tanner will be 17 in May and he is hypothyroid and on meds, Precious and Keena are both 14 this year, and Rex recently turned 10. They are free-fed Fromm's Game Bird Recipe dry food and get Merrick's Limited Ingredient canned food 1x a day.

Rex was diagnosed with diabetes today with a blood sugar level of 537. His other kidney and liver values were good. He has lost 3.5 pounds since November 2016 at his annual check-up. He saw the vet beginning of December and already lost 1 pound since the checkup. He had injured his wrist and wasn't eating much and we were helping him get to the litter box 2-3x a day. He was prescribed Onsior 1x a day for 5 days. Later, I found this was in the NSAID family, which I dislike. Approximately 2 months ago, he started drinking more water in the morning, but no other symptoms. As time went by, I noticed he looked slimmer. He was overweight in November at 18.5 pounds, but he had been 21 at one point. Now he's 15 pounds. He seemed more lethargic and "dazed" the past few days so he was brought in. I thought perhaps Onsior damaged his kidneys. Can diabetes occur from a NSAID?

Anyway, I was told about Lantus, Lemevir, and the regular human insulin. The vet didn't recommend one or another because I wanted to ask other pet owners on a diabetic forum like this. I'm leaning towards Lantus. Can anyone help? I was told by someone on the hypothyroid forum to get pens, not vials, as they are cheaper in the long run. I just need to get syringes to draw from the pen instead of using the pen needle.

Thank you!
 
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Hi There,

I use a Lantus pen and use the syringe to draw from it. You can actually just buy the cartridges to refill the pen which make it cheaper to buy. Not sure where you are located but they can be bought online at Mark Marine Pharmacy with a prescription. I had no issues with it and actually like it. Where I am at I can just go to the local pharmacy and pick it up pretty cheap. It does take a little longer to get rolling as it is a depot drug (takes time to build up in the system) and dose changes take a bit of time to see what a particular dose will do. It is not quick acting like some other insulin. Jones lost a lot of weight too, but is slowly gaining it back. He has IBD so that complicates things a bit.

Never heard of the NSAID causing diabetes. Steriods can - like prednisolone.

Are you planning on home testing Rex?

Have you checked out the carb% of the food you are feeding. High carb food (10% or more) can be a big factor in getting the diabetes under control.
 
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Hi. Yes, I plan to do home testing.

I just checked the Fromm's website and as-is basis is 28%. Not good! I thought it was a low-carb food.

I feel like I need to hurry and get started because Rex's blood sugar was 537 this morning. He just doesn't look good. Is Lantus expensive? I'm located in northern WI, USA.
 
Catgirl78 said:
Not good! I thought it was a low-carb food
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Nope, not good. The general consensus here is that wet food is better to use than dry. You can check out the website catinfo.org for some information. Here is a list of food that Dr Lisa put together to make it easy to see what is low carb. If you go to the site there is a sortable list that you can save to your computer and then customize. There is a zero carb dry food - Young Again, but I have never used it.

The lantus pen was about $89 straight from the vet for me, but I am in Canada, so that makes a difference. At the local pharmacy it was $58. I didn't get the cartridges as I needed it quick before going on vacation. The cartridge refills are cheaper I believe. Check out Mark Marine Pharmacy, a lot of our US members use them. There is a shipping charge as it needs to kept cool, but I think I saw a member quote for 5 cartridges it was $300 (please don't quote me) they will last till the expiry date if they are kept refrigerated properly. The pen holds 300 units I believe. My first one last just over 3 months.

If all else fails and you want to get started immediately, as long as you have a prescription - go to Walmart. It is a human insulin.


Catgirl78 said:
Yes, I plan to do home testing
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Good for you! One of the best ways to keep Rex safe and guide him into remission. I would say you need to set up a speadsheet. It is the number one way to record you readings, your doses and it really helps the other members here


Here is a wonderful post with some useful information.

ETA: Rex is good hands. He will feel better soon.
 
Did some digging ....

Lantus Solostar PENS 5x3ml CAN Brand 100U/ml 1 box (5 pens) $149.99 USD on the Marks Marine Pharmacy. .

Lantus Solostar CAN Brand 100iu/ml one pen 1 pen(1x3ml) $49.99 USD


There is an additional $25 shipping charge.
 
Here's all the information on buying Lantus from Marks in Canada

They really are great and have saved a lot of kitties lives by making it affordable!!

You're correct....you want the pens and just use regular insulin syringes to pull the insulin out of the pen. Each pen holds 300 units and a box of 5 will last until the expiration date on the box...usually about 2 years away

You want 3/10ml, 30 or 31 guage, 8mm insulin syringes....WalMart has boxes of 100 of their Relion brand for $12.58 but there are several other brands out there too. The important thing about syringes is to get ones with half unit markings (the WalMart ones have half unit markings)
 
If you plan on switching to wet food only you must do it slowly and monitor closely if you do it after starting insulin. Cutting out the dry food can drop his numbers by hundreds of points. Chuck was diagnosed with 550 range blood glucose. Switching to just low carb wet food brought him down to 350 range. Just an example of how it can drop them.
You've found the best place for feline Diabetes info and support!!(IMO) Welcome!
 
Hi. I haven't been able to reply since yesterday because something in my reply was 'spam-like' so it wouldn't be sent through. I'm trying again here.

I do know wet food is better. The issue is we are occasionally gone on the weekends and my friend already comes 2x a day to give my hypothyroid cat his meds. I don't know if she's willing to do insulin shots, let alone the glucose checks. About the wet food, how much is a cat supposed to get? I have seen the website about the cat food before, but I never understood exactly how much a cat should get if he/she doesn't get any dry food.

I already found the ReliOn syringes at Walmart. I was more focused on getting the ReliOn Confirm meter, test strips, and lancets. Does it really matter what size the lancets are? Am I missing anything else to make it easier on Rex?

Someone contacted me and shipped me some unopened Lantus. It should be here either Saturday or Monday. Once it arrives, Rex will start his insulin shots. The vet said to start with 3 units both AM and PM.

Hoping this reply goes through!
 
Catgirl78 said:
Hi. I haven't been able to reply since yesterday because something in my reply was 'spam-like' so it wouldn't be sent through. I'm trying again here.

I do know wet food is better. The issue is we are occasionally gone on the weekends and my friend already comes 2x a day to give my hypothyroid cat his meds. I don't know if she's willing to do insulin shots, let alone the glucose checks. About the wet food, how much is a cat supposed to get? I have seen the website about the cat food before, but I never understood exactly how much a cat should get if he/she doesn't get any dry food.

I already found the ReliOn syringes at Walmart. I was more focused on getting the ReliOn Confirm meter, test strips, and lancets. Does it really matter what size the lancets are? Am I missing anything else to make it easier on Rex?

Someone contacted me and shipped me some unopened Lantus. It should be here either Saturday or Monday. Once it arrives, Rex will start his insulin shots. The vet said to start with 3 units both AM and PM.

Hoping this reply goes through!
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Get 28 gauge lancets. The 30 guage ones are REALLY thin to get a drop from a cat, especially in the beginning.
 
3u is a very high starting dose. We usually recommend 1u BID to start. Please be sure you are home testing before you start the insulin- especially if you are cutting the high carb food out of his diet.
 
Can anyone tell me the guidelines on how much to feed a 8#, 2 11#, and a 15# cats if I'm going to try and switch to wet food? I'm concerned about my Ragdoll because he seems to not tolerate certain flavors of the wet food at different times. He is fine for weeks and then I give something I have given before and immediately I can see it nauseated him and he goes and throw it all back up. I will continue to offer dry food, but I will try to find the low carb dry food (Young Again). I am going to finish what I have on hand while I do the transition. Thanks!
 
Catgirl78 said:
Can anyone tell me the guidelines on how much to feed a 8#, 2 11#, and a 15# cats if I'm going to try and switch to wet food? I'm concerned about my Ragdoll because he seems to not tolerate certain flavors of the wet food at different times. He is fine for weeks and then I give something I have given before and immediately I can see it nauseated him and he goes and throw it all back up. I will continue to offer dry food, but I will try to find the low carb dry food (Young Again). I am going to finish what I have on hand while I do the transition. Thanks!
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It's hard to know. First you have to decide if each is a good weight for their size. Start keeping track of the weight of each. You can use your human scale by weighing yourself and repeat holding each cat in turn.

Decide on what the starting daily ration should be for each - 1 or up to 2 six ounce cans of wet food might be something to try, according to current weight/size. If they all eat together they should all be on whatever is best for your diabetic. You might have to feed on a schedule with cats in separate rooms if they eat at different rates and/or need different food.

Once a routine is in place weigh each cat once every two weeks or so to see how things are going.

Like many health issues, diabetes in one kitty can force a change for all kitties and you as well.
 
Catgirl78 said:
Can anyone tell me the guidelines on how much to feed a 8#, 2 11#, and a 15# cats if I'm going to try and switch to wet food? I'm concerned about my Ragdoll because he seems to not tolerate certain flavors of the wet food at different times. He is fine for weeks and then I give something I have given before and immediately I can see it nauseated him and he goes and throw it all back up. I will continue to offer dry food, but I will try to find the low carb dry food (Young Again). I am going to finish what I have on hand while I do the transition. Thanks!
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It is possible your Ragdoll is allergic to an ingredient. I have read it can take 4-6 weeks to see if a food causes allergy issues with cats. I guess the "easier" ingredient to figure it out is protein: chicken, beef, fish, etc.
 
If they're normal weight and not diabetic you can probably follow the feeding recommendation on the food label. I feed my 18 pound cat 2 5.5oz cans a day. Usually 1 1/2- 1 3/4 cans. He's on a diet to lose weight. My sugar kitty gets 2 5.5oz cans a day plus 1 heaping tablespoon of young again to help him gain weight (currently 11 pounds).
Probably a good idea to keep an eye on all of their weight and keep track of it. If they start to lose weight and they don't need to- you'll know to increase their amount of food. If they gain and don't need to-- lower their amount of food.
 
Thank you! I refuse to give any fish foods because my 8# cat is hypothyroid. I think I'll do Fancy Feast wet food since it seems to be cheaper but still low carb. It does feel funny that Fancy Feast is good because I steered away from it for grain free foods. Any other suggestions?
 
Catgirl78 said:
Thank you! I refuse to give any fish foods because my 8# cat is hypothyroid. I think I'll do Fancy Feast wet food since it seems to be cheaper but still low carb. It does feel funny that Fancy Feast is good because I steered away from it for grain free foods. Any other suggestions?
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Fancy Feast is in small 3 oz cans so you'd need to feed more of them. It's grain free. Many people also feed Friskies pates types. They're in 6 oz cans. Some of them have rice fairly far down the ingredients list and are low enough in carbs. Many of the specialty cat foods that are grain free have veggies, etc, that raise the carb count.
 
Catgirl78 said:
Hi all,

To summarize, I have 4 indoor male cats. Tanner will be 17 in May and he is hypothyroid and on meds, Precious and Keena are both 14 this year, and Rex recently turned 10. They are free-fed Fromm's Game Bird Recipe dry food and get Merrick's Limited Ingredient canned food 1x a day.

Rex was diagnosed with diabetes today with a blood sugar level of 537. His other kidney and liver values were good. He has lost 3.5 pounds since November 2016 at his annual check-up. He saw the vet beginning of December and already lost 1 pound since the checkup. He had injured his wrist and wasn't eating much and we were helping him get to the litter box 2-3x a day. He was prescribed Onsior 1x a day for 5 days. Later, I found this was in the NSAID family, which I dislike. Approximately 2 months ago, he started drinking more water in the morning, but no other symptoms. As time went by, I noticed he looked slimmer. He was overweight in November at 18.5 pounds, but he had been 21 at one point. Now he's 15 pounds. He seemed more lethargic and "dazed" the past few days so he was brought in. I thought perhaps Onsior damaged his kidneys. Can diabetes occur from a NSAID?

Anyway, I was told about Lantus, Lemevir, and the regular human insulin. The vet didn't recommend one or another because I wanted to ask other pet owners on a diabetic forum like this. I'm leaning towards Lantus. Can anyone help? I was told by someone on the hypothyroid forum to get pens, not vials, as they are cheaper in the long run. I just need to get syringes to draw from the pen instead of using the pen needle.

Thank you!
Click to expand...

Welcome. I'm pretty new here too, but I also live in WI and have a kitty named Rex. He's orange too. Best of luck.
 
I broke down and bought Friskies wet food (pates). With 4 cats, I can't afford feeding exclusively what I was giving as treats. I sure hope they all like it.
 
Catgirl78 said:
I broke down and bought Friskies wet food (pates). With 4 cats, I can't afford feeding exclusively what I was giving as treats. I sure hope they all like it.
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No reason to feel guilty about buying Friskies. It's fine for kitties and is budget friendly for a multi cat household.
 
Ugh... I just fed the cats their first morning meal of Friskies and my Ragdoll rejected it. He seems to know when something won't agree with him. He's picky and I have seen him get sick from beef and duck flavors. The flavor I gave was Country Style Dinner pate. I'll try a different flavor later. If no go, I'll have to pick up Merrick's or is Earth Farms low carb, too? I didn't see it on the low carb cat food list. Thank you!
 
My Rex is picky too. Especially lately. Trying to get him to eat either raw or Tiki Cat foods. He wants no part of it. Can be frustrating. I would be interested as well in the Merrick Earth Farms. There are a few of those Rex seems to like. Also Nutro. Best of luck. Keep trying... :)
 
Vtambo & Rex said:
My Rex is picky too. Especially lately. Trying to get him to eat either raw or Tiki Cat foods. He wants no part of it. Can be frustrating. I would be interested as well in the Merrick Earth Farms. There are a few of those Rex seems to like. Also Nutro. Best of luck. Keep trying... :)
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Thank you! I decided to go ahead and buy Merrick's Whole Earth Farms wet food in their 12.7 oz cans for Keena, my Ragdoll. After I know he's fine on that, I am going to see if I can get him slowly switched over to Friskies, but I won't hold my breath.

Where do I find the low carb treats? I looked and looked at Petco and couldn't find any. If I could get the brand name, I'll look online.
 
Catgirl78 said:
Thank you! I decided to go ahead and buy Merrick's Whole Earth Farms wet food in their 12.7 oz cans for Keena, my Ragdoll. After I know he's fine on that, I am going to see if I can get him slowly switched over to Friskies, but I won't hold my breath.

Where do I find the low carb treats? I looked and looked at Petco and couldn't find any. If I could get the brand name, I'll look online.
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I have been getting the Orijen brand. I bought some on Amazon and we have a pet store here called Bentleys Pet Stuff where they carry them. I did find Pure Bites at Petco, but my cat doesn't like them.
 
Vtambo & Rex said:
I did find Pure Bites at Petco, but my cat doesn't like them.
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I have Pure Bites in 2 flavors. My cats aren't crazy about them.

I'm starting to think I don't really need treats. I used to give them treats when I leave for work (this started back when my oldest cat would always try to sneak out the door so I gave him treats to prevent that). Now that I'm feeding them a full meal of wet food just before I leave, they aren't interested.

StephG said:
If you plan on switching to wet food only you must do it slowly and monitor closely if you do it after starting insulin. Cutting out the dry food can drop his numbers by hundreds of points. Chuck was diagnosed with 550 range blood glucose. Switching to just low carb wet food brought him down to 350 range.!
Click to expand...

This is so true! Rex was dx with a bg of 537 last Wednesday. On Friday and Saturday, I had 2 tests of 436 and 493. Sunday morning, I got 462 before giving the cats their first full wet meal. Sunday afternoon, Rex was 371 before their dinner. This morning, he was only 293! Wow! Someone else here told me to start at 0.5u if Rex is on wet food only (I do have some dry food out, but the 4 cats aren't eating much - 1/2 cup a day if that total).
 
I just talked to my vet about Young Again food. she had never heard of it, but when I told her it was a no carb dry - the conversation was basically over. she said "nope". anyone have experience with this dry food?
Catgirl78 said:
I have Pure Bites in 2 flavors. My cats aren't crazy about them.

I'm starting to think I don't really need treats. I used to give them treats when I leave for work (this started back when my oldest cat would always try to sneak out the door so I gave him treats to prevent that). Now that I'm feeding them a full meal of wet food just before I leave, they aren't interested.



This is so true! Rex was dx with a bg of 537 last Wednesday. On Friday and Saturday, I had 2 tests of 436 and 493. Sunday morning, I got 462 before giving the cats their first full wet meal. Sunday afternoon, Rex was 371 before their dinner. This morning, he was only 293! Wow! Someone else here told me to start at 0.5u if Rex is on wet food only (I do have some dry food out, but the 4 cats aren't eating much - 1/2 cup a day if that total).
Click to expand...
Catgirl78 said:
I have Pure Bites in 2 flavors. My cats aren't crazy about them.

I'm starting to think I don't really need treats. I used to give them treats when I leave for work (this started back when my oldest cat would always try to sneak out the door so I gave him treats to prevent that). Now that I'm feeding them a full meal of wet food just before I leave, they aren't interested.



This is so true! Rex was dx with a bg of 537 last Wednesday. On Friday and Saturday, I had 2 tests of 436 and 493. Sunday morning, I got 462 before giving the cats their first full wet meal. Sunday afternoon, Rex was 371 before their dinner. This morning, he was only 293! Wow! Someone else here told me to start at 0.5u if Rex is on wet food only (I do have some dry food out, but the 4 cats aren't eating much - 1/2 cup a day if that total).
Click to expand...
Catgirl78 said:
I have Pure Bites in 2 flavors. My cats aren't crazy about them.

I'm starting to think I don't really need treats. I used to give them treats when I leave for work (this started back when my oldest cat would always try to sneak out the door so I gave him treats to prevent that). Now that I'm feeding them a full meal of wet food just before I leave, they aren't interested.



This is so true! Rex was dx with a bg of 537 last Wednesday. On Friday and Saturday, I had 2 tests of 436 and 493. Sunday morning, I got 462 before giving the cats their first full wet meal. Sunday afternoon, Rex was 371 before their dinner. This morning, he was only 293! Wow! Someone else here told me to start at 0.5u if Rex is on wet food only (I do have some dry food out, but the 4 cats aren't eating much - 1/2 cup a day if that total).
Click to expand...
 
Catgirl78 said:
I have Pure Bites in 2 flavors. My cats aren't crazy about them.

I'm starting to think I don't really need treats. I used to give them treats when I leave for work (this started back when my oldest cat would always try to sneak out the door so I gave him treats to prevent that). Now that I'm feeding them a full meal of wet food just before I leave, they aren't interested.



This is so true! Rex was dx with a bg of 537 last Wednesday. On Friday and Saturday, I had 2 tests of 436 and 493. Sunday morning, I got 462 before giving the cats their first full wet meal. Sunday afternoon, Rex was 371 before their dinner. This morning, he was only 293! Wow! Someone else here told me to start at 0.5u if Rex is on wet food only (I do have some dry food out, but the 4 cats aren't eating much - 1/2 cup a day if that total).
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that is great!
 
Vtambo & Rex said:
I just talked to my vet about Young Again food. she had never heard of it, but when I told her it was a no carb dry - the conversation was basically over. she said "nope". anyone have experience with this dry food?
Click to expand...

I did find some bad feedback about this food on this forum. If you search Young Again, you should find some members' comments on this.
 
Vtambo & Rex said:
I just talked to my vet about Young Again food. she had never heard of it, but when I told her it was a no carb dry - the conversation was basically over. she said "nope". anyone have experience with this dry food?
Click to expand...
I started using it and four weeks later my cat went into remission. I think this food was a contributing factor. Look at my spreadsheet... you can see with the black line when I started feeding young again and how within two weeks my numbers started dropping.

I don't feed this food exclusively. I feed wet fancy feast twice a day and leave this out.
 
I use it as a snack. Chuck can't free feed right now because of his increased appetite due to the diabetes. I tried it with the YA zero mature and he ate 3 days worth in one sitting! Puke everywhere later that day! It is best to feed wet food due to the water content. But if you feed like Janet does with wet food and the YA you could add extra water to his wet food to make up for what they aren't getting with the dry.
If you visit their website you will see many success stories. Same with their facebook page. Their customer support is fantastic too. Not all cats will do well on it but same can be said for any other food too.
 
StephG said:
I use it as a snack. Chuck can't free feed right now because of his increased appetite due to the diabetes. I tried it with the YA zero mature and he ate 3 days worth in one sitting! Puke everywhere later that day! It is best to feed wet food due to the water content. But if you feed like Janet does with wet food and the YA you could add extra water to his wet food to make up for what they aren't getting with the dry.
If you visit their website you will see many success stories. Same with their facebook page. Their customer support is fantastic too. Not all cats will do well on it but same can be said for any other food too.
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are you giving him anything for the arthritis at the moment? That would really help with his mobility. I know diabetic people have better numbers when they exercise... If he were less stiff he could move around better. Man, it sucks getting old. hahaha
 
Catgirl78 said:
is Earth Farms low carb, too? I didn't see it on the low carb cat food list. Thank y
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From info I recently got from Whole Earth Farms
Grain Free Chicken 10
GF Duck 3.6
GF Turkey 10.9
GF Beef 4.4
GF Salmon 8.9
They also have several new flavors, but didn't have the info yet. I hope to get back to them on that soon.
 
Sharon14 said:
From info I recently got from Whole Earth Farms
Grain Free Chicken 10
GF Duck 3.6
GF Turkey 10.9
GF Beef 4.4
GF Salmon 8.9
They also have several new flavors, but didn't have the info yet. I hope to get back to them on that soon.
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thanks. good to know. that is one of my Rex's favorites, but I have not been buying because I wasn't sure.
 
Sharon14 said:
From info I recently got from Whole Earth Farms
Grain Free Chicken 10
GF Duck 3.6
GF Turkey 10.9
GF Beef 4.4
GF Salmon 8.9
They also have several new flavors, but didn't have the info yet. I hope to get back to them on that soon.
Click to expand...

Thank you! Unfortunately, I think I need to go back to Merrick's. My Ragdoll did well the first 2 days on the Grain Free Chicken, but then he walked away yesterday at dinner. This morning, he reluctantly ate some before walking away. I hope I don't go home later to puke. I still have to try the Turkey. I bought the big cans so I wanted to finish one can, but maybe I will have to have 2 opened cans and alternate the flavors. I always add warm water. Beef and Duck are not good (puke-inducing for Keena). I wish Merrick's wet food comes in big can like Whole Earth Farms because they are the same company!
 
I wish there was info on Nutro. I have read the labels and they seem like they would be good, but just not confident about it. Rex loves the minced chicken and a few of the other flavors. it says on the ingredient label that there is broth in it, but when you pour it out it is more the consistency of gravy, which he loves. I have done the "carb calculator" and again, it seems fine, but would like to see if anyone else agrees.
 
Catgirl78 said:
Ugh... I just fed the cats their first morning meal of Friskies and my Ragdoll rejected it. He seems to know when something won't agree with him. He's picky and I have seen him get sick from beef and duck flavors. The flavor I gave was Country Style Dinner pate. I'll try a different flavor later. If no go, I'll have to pick up Merrick's or is Earth Farms low carb, too? I didn't see it on the low carb cat food list. Thank you!
Click to expand...
no, you just have a cat that's used to getting something much more expensive. I feed my cats Friskies Pate and let me tell you what, it was battle of the wills around here for a good 3 days before they caved and finally ate because I wasn't going to give them anything else. I knew that they would eat sooner or later if they got hungry enough and they did. One thing that helped was hand feeding them and letting them lick the cat food from my fingers.
 
It is like he knows he can't eat this or that without puking. I've watched him eat then go puke immediately. I don't want to force him and then have to clean up afterwards. So I am cautious about giving him new stuff.

I plan to try and switch him over slowly with a mix of both foods.
 
Are you sure it is the food itself that is making him puke? With my Rex, he has done that too where he eats something and pretty much turns around and pukes a few feet from the bowl, but what I think it is is he eats too fast. Someone at the pet store told me that cats can't burp so they barf. True? Don't know for a fact but it kinda makes sense. If they eat too fast I could understand how they would puke it up right away. Just a thought.

Seems like it is just as hard if not harder (and sometimes more expensive) to feed our cats than our kids. I have thrown away a lot of cat food over the years because of my finicky feline. o_O
 
I don't think he eats too fast. The times he eats and pukes are usually when he doesn't finish the food or eats slowly like he wants it but not really want it. Beef is the worst to give him. Duck is second. It's hard now with Friskies having a blend of different meats.
 
Ugh. My Rex does not necessarily like beef and duck that much either. although lately it seems like he doesn't really like much of anything a lot! likes it one time so I buy more of it and then the next time I give it to him he turns up his nose. good luck.
 
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