results of 2am feeding....drumroll....

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am 162
now this is definetly better than the usual 230's, however, i'll test again in 2 hours (man he's getting tested to death lately) and i still feel his pancrease is working hard and not keeping up. just don't know when to shoot.

here's his problem.

the first meal of the day seems to take him all the way down for a good 8 hours or so. probably mostly in the greens. after that even 2 hours after dinner the lowest he'll go is very low 100's (120) now i see that 5 hours after a middle of the night feeding lowers the damage but not enough. shots during a meal tend to drop him like a rock, litterally 200 or more points in an hour.

can i shoot between meals a token dose? is that wrong?

food and insulin don't mix well for him.
 
Hmmm. I would give the night feeding a week or so and see what happens. Staying in lower numbers all of the time may help his pancreas heal and get "caught up". Glucose toxicity (sugar killing off the beta cells in the pancreas) happens at about 140.
 
looks great- obviously worked, I would keep it up for at least a week before I confused things by adding insulin. Your goal is to get HIS pancreas to do the work.

IMO you need to get a 2 meal feeder, set it to go off 3-4 hours apart, for example 1AM and 5AM, don't worry about the calories for now, just make sure its LC. After a day or 2 of "overfeeding" cut back on the daytime quantity until you are feeding what you were previously every 24hours. In other words- same total amount per 24hrs- split up differently.
 
gator---glutton, of course!

karen, well, i'm not sure he's low enough to not be killing off beta cells. i'll b testing more often but this morning's 162 after only 5 hours since feeding i guess is too high.

nancy, ok, now to shop for this 2 meal wet food feeder. and i suppose they have a method of keeping it cool so as not to spoil? man, this whole experience of diabetes with tom round 2 is so much more work than round 1. back then we did 12/12, he always nadired at +6 and life was simple! :lol:
 
warning about the 2 meal feeder- cody can break into ours and I am waitng to try the 5 meal feeder which is more expensive. They are both pet safe brands and you can see them online. dot org i think.

Cody is food crazy more than most cats so .... also the 2 meal ticks rather loudwhich is annoying. Yes you can put ice below if you want to but it has holes that will leak onto your floor if you use ice. I always just used it out of the fridge so it was cool when I loaded it at bedtime. Or you could freeze cubes of food for the 5am feeding
 
tom is food crazy too, never met a food he wasn't ready to eat! i've watched him eat a bird feathers and all (left out beak and feet) it was'nt pleasant. i'll have to see the "break-in-ability" of the 2 feeder as tom is smart and savvy and has even pushed his was threw a door that was closed but not locked.
i'm happy to report he does very little begging of human food, unless i'mm eatting something on the couch that smells good to him. he takes the word "NO" very seriously. he truly is a genius.
 
nancy the reviews on that feeder were not very good, did'nt open at all once, did'nt open on time....both reviews did not reccomend. i woud advise buying at petsmart where at least they would take it back.
 
eBay might have used feeders? If I remember, they can get relatively expensive.

But yea as Nancy said - Timed Feeder might do the trick!!
 
I actually complained to the company and I THINK they are sending me the 5 meal for free. (we'll see- they say it wont be 'in stock" until mid may)
If he is smart and sneaky and food motivated, you can forget the 2 meal feeder, its too easy to FORCE open which is what cody does. He's broken the little plastic tabs that keep the top closed.

Unfortunately I haven't seen any other brands, but I havent looked everywhere
 
Lori - I apologize if this has already been asked before, but you're on SID (as needed) and still shooting 1 unit? We're on as needed as well, but I only shoot .1 unit when needed. Just enough to bring it back down and then let his pancreas take on the rest of the task. I'm just wondering if a smaller dose when needed would bring him down a bit gentler. Does he not do well on shots under 1?
 
hi hope, well that is what i did this morning. .5u on amps 233.
this, after waking up at 2am to feed him in hopes that like the night before it would bring his #'s down. worked 1 day only!
i started out on the tiny dose theory and it seems no matter what i do i basically get the same results. truly. shoot 1u, no shoot, shoot .5u....it always ends up with the same amps and slightly differing pmps. i'm getting mentally exhuasted, and a bit worried as to what the heck this is. i do know the insulin is good as his drops are so much steeper when shot.

i'm starting to lose my patience with all this experimenting i'm embarrassed to say. i just want my cat to be like other cats. normal.
bowing my head in shame :oops:
 
Lori did you ever try .1U or .2U? I think lowest I remember you giving was 1/3u? We've been round-y round on the shooting very small doses before I know. :smile: I at times, like Hope, have had success with .1u.

And then there is the issue of him coming down on his own during the day. You were giving insulin during the day when he was coming down on his own but not at night when he would rise. I know we've been round-y round on this one too. So sorry to be on repeat. But my theory is tomtom needs more at night than during the day.

EDIT: But all in all, tomtom is doing fine in my brain [but I'm not there to observe him obviously] even WITHOUT insulin tomtom is doing OK. Another idea [that doesn't sound so appetizing to me :smile: ] would be to wake up in the middle of the night [say AMPS -6] and try to shoot into his morning rise for say a week and see if you can get that hump to come down.
 
It is amazing to me how much effect even 2 drops can have. I guess the difference at smaller doses is obviously more noticeable, but still. :smile:
 
You know I just had a whacky thought.

Are you sure the insulin is even working? Like maybe that bottle is pooped out or something? If the cat is having essentially the same curves ON insulin as OFF insulin that makes me suspicious.
 
She said she knows it's good because he has much steeper drops when he's on insulin rather than off, but I find it strange, too, Gator. I guess Tom just likes to keep everyone guessing. ;-)
 
Yea, maybe I see the faster drops ON insulin in the SS... as the idiom roughly goes, I'd be licking that calf over again a few times to convince myself of that. :smile: If it were me I'd probably be doing some systematic testing of perhaps AMPS, +1, +2 & +3 or AMPS, +2, +3 & +4 on then off insulin with no insulin at night with at least two to three data points for both on and off insulin. And I would make sure nothing was given at night and the test would probably be on consecutive days. lol. Lori, I feel for ya because I really don't like testing. :smile:

Well, I will say that H has been doing the higher at night than in the morning lately. For us I'm nearly certain it is a matter of a difference in food consumption. This morning I actually gave a hair more than I would have to compensate and last night I gave a little less in anticipation of the lower morning number so he would drop as far. I don't like shooting in anticipation but...
 
thanks for all the input guys. i am ordering some clavamox liquid from a vet tech friend in colorado in the event tom has an infection....i think either teeth, and possibly uti. i gave .3u tonight on a pmps 129. on my syringe .1u does'nt quite make it out of the needle :lol: but i'll try it in the am with his (i just know it) 230 reading.
maybe once i clear up what i just instinctively believe are minor infections we'll do better.
don't even ask why i don't take him into the vet...the reasons are a few and i am too tired to explain.
i'll keep ya posted.
and gator i don't mind your continual push toward lowering dose....i actually totally agree with you but thought .3 was about as low as it goes and still makes it out. that was what we started on.
what's strange is with all the changes in dosing how little has changed in his readings!
insulin good.
 
Lori,

I just got back from my walk to the beach [& happy hour drinking09 ] . On the way I was thinking about you guys. And I was thinking that the GOOD news is that you have a predictable pattern going on. And that this makes me believe you do not have anything going on really with tomtom. Infection numbers are generally spiky, all over the map and difficult to control. I think it is remarkable how well he does OFF insulin - I think a lot of folks would be very happy to have those numbers.

My final thought was that I remain suspicious of the insulin.
 
well i do have another bottle to try...and btw, love that you can walk to the beach for your happy hour.
gator while his #'s are predictable and not too bad i'm shooting the token dose now (amps 224 .3u) just so his pancrease does'nt have to overwork itself every morning. i may post his ss on think tank simply becuase i don't think it's normal diabetic stuff....
the one noticeable thing was after only one night of midnight meal success he went right back up to normal (for him) amps.
and by success he was still 162 only 6 hours later...so a tiring pancrease.
and i'm tired of it too!
and i think it's amazing to have people considering your cat's #'s whilst strolling to the beach.
thanks :mrgreen:
 
lori and tom said:
i think it's amazing to have people considering your cat's #'s whilst strolling to the beach.
Click to expand...
I have plenty of time to think [part of the reason I do it], the beach is 4 miles and HH is up to another mile. So it's more urban hike than stroll. :-D I grab the bus home and that's more observing the wildlife time.
 
Unfortunately, that feeder looks just like the Petsafe branded one, and several of the reviews have had our same experience (that a motivated cat can break it open pretty easily.)sorry

I'm curious about your shot, feeding schedule- what time do you shoot, feed, wake up, etc. You mention a 1AM feeding and the 163 6 hours later I think. I'm thinking the food/ pancreas reaction would not last 6 hours. If the feeder isn't an option, than the tiny doses sound like your next option.

As for getting frustrated- at least you have a shot at OTJ. And really, none of his numbers are bad. I'd be thrilled if Cody could stay below 250 all the time. He hasn't for 3 years and he's still cruising along, jumping on 36in counters hunting that next meal :o
 
Gosh Nancy you're right....and I do sound like a whinner when I think of those kitties and their beans in worse situations.
as for the one time he gave me the good am. he goes way down after eatting so it takes him a while to climb back up...so that 6 hours made sense to me. after all, his morning meal carries him straight thru to dinner.
now that i'm shooting, token doses, his #'s are slightly up. laughing or i would cry. last night he gave me 147 (normally under 120) shot .3, and after an early morning vomit he gave me a 282....quite high for him....for which i gave .5
funny thing is that vomit looked nothing like his last meal (raw rabbit) and i KNOW he did'nt get into anything....it looked like a can of ff diced something or other in gravey (so sorry for the visual)
He is not acting sick or unhappy, matter of fact he's outside right now searching in earnest for a good lizard fight!
 
oh and you asked about our feed schedule

usually goes about 8am test, feed, shoot while he eats. (if shooting)
if i do shoot i usually give a snack about 10 to help with fast dropping #
next meal is usually between 4-5
then about 8 again test, feed, maybe shoot.

when i'm home for the day i break his meals into smaller portions more often.

he's a slow eatter, takes about 15 minutes to devour a ff can but generally gets it all down in one sitting. including licking crumbs that might have spilled off side of bowl.... i wuvs him!
 
Gator, I am so jealous that you can walk on the beach to happy hour. That is one thing about California that I could get behind. :-D
 
H and his issues have been a blessing in some ways that I've become more appreciative of the things I have nearby. :smile:
 
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