Remission vs management

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Just-As-Appy

Just-As-Appy

Member Since 2010
Not to set the cat amongst the pigeons, but I'm just wondering what the percentage is of diabetic cats that do go into remission. It may be hard to quantify in a more general sense, but I'm wondering if anyone has kept stats on the cats who have been on this board. I have finally come to grips with the idea that my cat may not go into remission due to a variety of complicating issues. However, I really felt for a time that I was failing him in some way (not shooting correctly, wrong food, wrong vitamins, wrong insulin, broken meter - it must be wrong if it never tested below 28). I'm wondering if other newbies might experience this 'failure syndrome' and give up. I might have if not for a supportive vet.
 
I don't think we keep stats on this, but I can tell you from personal experience that management is a wonderful goal.

For over five years I have been blessed with the ability to keep Tucker happy and mostly feeling great. Today we're facing a pancreatitis flare, other days we have some issues, but I thank everyone on this site and so many others for helping me learn how to manage Tucker's FD.

I've also been blessed with several FDs that I've adopted since adopting Tucker. Two were insulin dependent, Sadie and Misty, and two went off insulin quickly, Mr. Darcy and Bean. I hope that Kiki who I'm adopting on Saturday will go off insulin, but I'll be happy if she stays on insulin and is simply comfortable and enjoying life.

An insulin dependent diabetic who is happy and enjoying a good quality of life is my first goal, second goal, for me is remission. If it happens, wonderful. But, even if it does, FD can come back. Tucker was in remission for over a year.

I'm glad you didn't give up and I hope that your experience will be helpful to many newbies to come.
 
There was some sort of a survey but I can't remember if it was on this board or the old board. One thing is that the insulins used have changed and so remission is likely greater now than it was. I THINK the stat used to be 30% but that's offhand...

Jen
 
As one who fosters diabetic kitties, I've had lots of them come thru my house since 2007. I use the same insulin and food with all of them. Some go into remission, other just get regulated. Why, I don't know.

Mufasa, Max, Vinnie, Jules have gone into remission and stayed there. Mufasa has been in remission for over two years.

My goal is that they be healthy even though they are diabetic. It is the same goal I have for myself as a long term diabetic.

Stats for me - about 30% of those I've fostered have gone into remission. Some like Rusty, just kind of sit on the brink - very low doses of insulin needed to keep them around 100.

Claudia
 
To me the "goal" is remission but it does not always happen. We can only treat the cats in the best manner we can. I Do not really know how I would treat/manage a cat differently if "management" was the goal vice remission. None of my nine diabetic cats have went into remission but I continue to strive for remission by doing the best I can.
 
In over 12 years on this board I have seen an increase in remission because a lot of newbies are starting out on Lantus and switching to canned food. Before Lantus, there were the PZI insulins.......mainly IDEXX and BCP........and before that there were the Humulins L and U to use. Way back there was Eli Lilly's PZI which they discontinued. So many tried to get remission, even going T.I.D., and getting discouraged because it didn't happen. Remission is a gift.....some never get it no matter how hard they try........some get it even without trying. Some with just a canned food diet switch from dry.....some with a few shots of Lantus.....some never. I have also seen cats that have gone into remission years later become insulin needy again.

Whatever happens a diabetic is always a diabetic. Good management is what counts even if that means insulin shots for the rest of the cat's life. Mishka has been getting her shots for over 7 years and I really don't care about that. As long as she is healthy, eats well, has a great quality of life that is all that matters. Two of my 5 are gone now and Hope is in a so called remission that I had nothing to do with. We feel it may have started when she was dx'd with RCM but no proof of any correlation between diabetes and heart problems. Vinnie is in remission and lucky because the vet at the pound had them put him on canned food and Glip. Once Claudia got him she gave him one or two shots of Lantus and remission happened. Even though Glip is not the greatest, in Vinnie's case I think it saved the pancreas to a degree where a few shots of Lantus pushed him into remission.

I just hope newbies don't come on and read all about the OTJ cats and expect that to happen to their cat. They just need to learn all they can, feed canned, hometest, understand it is a lifelong commitment and, if remission happens, be very thankful.
 
This is a topic I am glad you brought up...I just never had the courage to do it since I am already probably considered a maverick here. I have seen many people post and feel guilty that their cat can't go into remission (also called OTJ in this forum). Some people also feel dissapointed that their cat goes into remission and then has to go back onto insulin. It is great that some cats go into remission. For those of us who have kitties that don't we shouldn't feel guilty or that we have failed our cats.Insulin isn't evil! I am very happy my cat is doing well and I want to say TGFI (Thank God for Insulin).
 
Jan, you should never feel hesitant to bring up this subject. Some people are more forceful in their approach towards remission, and often it isn't properly explained to 'newbies' that remission is a wonderful goal but the cat's health and the 5 P's come first :) That is, peeing, pooping, purring, preening and playing. There is always a tendancy to focus too much on the numbers sometimes; this is fine for some people, but others can be intimidated. So I guess it comes down to remembering to give a broad perspective when giving advice :)

Jen
 
I am wondering, looking at your spreadsheet, what dose you started with and what kind of insulin? 8 units twice a day is a large dose unless he is a acrocat viewforum.php?f=12 Is there a chance that he is rebounding? Are you using Caninsulin? Is there a chance it is not effective viewtopic.php?f=19&t=311

If you have already been through all this with us, disregard. Just wondering if we have hit all the bases with you.
 
Its a long tale, and I won't bore you with it all. He started on Lantus in the spring and after several months of changing food, 'start low go slow' and going from bad to worse and extreme neuropathy, he was switched to Caninsulin (with all the warnings provided by vet). At this point, with no remission in sight, I was ready to pull the plug.

I've tried for a while to get the profile and ss up and have finally succeeded. I knew that the 8 u would raise alarms, but decided to start anyway. Hopefully as more data is added the picture will become clearer. Thanks for the questions.
 
And that's 8u of caninsulin?
Sure that alarms me, but why did you switch to caninsulin from Lantus?
I would get off the caninsulin right away and just switch to Levemir or back to Lantus.
Since you're in Canada, you don't need any rx for the insulin.

The dose of 8u says to me something is up and the first thought is insulin resistance.
I don't understand the pull the plug comment - there's absolutely nothing wrong with being regulated and never achieving remission. There is no reason at all that a cat can't live a fine life while on insulin.

The dose you are giving does not alarm me as it's below what I am giving mine, but it bothers me that you are using Caninsulin because I also was using that insulin for Shadoe and had horrible numbers. She had better numbers on Lantus and even better on Lev, so an insulin change is a good start.

The neuropathy is treatable according to many around here. Many give B12 so you could post in health and put a subject like need help with neuropathy. You will get tons of responses I bet.

Thank goodness you started the ss; it's so much easier for others to help if they can see the numbers you are getting.

I have a couple of happy acros at home; I consider them pretty regulated. Sure it takes a bit more insulin, but I swear if Oliver were a dog, his tail would be wagging when I get home. He's one happy guy who happens to need a fair bit of insulin, but he's happy anyways.

There are many people here who can help you.
 
What a great discussion. Thank you for posting. I have been treating my diabetic cat -Khan since April/May and didn't get here until August when it was recommended to say goodbye to him. Then it took a while to get the Lantus. so now Khan's numbers are coming down but still somewhat discouraging to me. Every day is different but lately I'm wonder "have I done the right things? am I not aggressive enough etc etc". Thank goodness for the people that post and watch Khan daily since lately I'm frustrated. Khan's neuropathy is sad to watch. He walks but not far or his legs go out from under him. he is on B12 that was recommended here- 2x/day- 6mg, Low Carb Fancy Feast and on Lantus. I feel guilty when I can't shoot at exactly 12 hrs.. but Ireally try but I'm a single mom and have to balance things the best I can. I have a few other cats that are sick as well. I am thankful so much for this board- this posting is very helpful. I have a great vet -whom wants to know- has anyone ever used a short acting insulin along with Lantus with cats? My vet is learning along with me- his knowledge will impact two other vets' diabetic feline protocol for the clinic. If possible I want him to see Lantus is the insulin to go to and that it is easier than what is going on with my Khan. I wish someone would stick close and say OK Jenee-- you are home all weekend do this and feed this.. lets see what happens.. I'm losing sleep and it is really beginning to be hard on me. I sound like a whinner and don't want to sound that way. I am in this for the long haul however I really really want an end result that is more manageable than what is going on right now. How long before I test if he is insulin resistant? or switch insulins? I wouldn't even know if he had pancreatitis unless someone gave me specifics (guess I'll have to read up on it).

Any thoughts?
 
Read up on caregivers syndrome....

We can't be everything, do everything, know everything. Do the best you can, but cut yourself some slack. Very few of us have 24-7 to allocate to our pet's health. We all have lives and the various things that clutter them up.


Jen
 
My vet's stats were around 30% over all, higher in the Lantus/newly diagnosed category.

Anyone who expects remission is just setting themselves up for frustration. I never expected that, my only goal was to get Smokey healthy again and if that was done with 2 shots a day so be it. I knew going in that Lantus had an extremely good record for getting cats in remission, but to me I just felt that meant a better shot at making my girl feel better. The tight regulation protocol may seem like it is targetting remission, but really it is to target the correct dosage - whether that means stopping at 8u b.i.d. or going all the way down off the scale - you just keep stepping through the hoops until you find that good place.

The instinct of a lot of the advice givers around here is to ask the questions that help them see if all that can be done has been done. Sometimes that can come across as thinking you aren't doing enough or might be doing something wrong, but I don't think its meant that way. They are just gathering information in order to help if they can.
 
This has really helped me looked at my approach slightly differently and with more determination.

I agree, I just want my Khan healthy again.

Thank you.
 
Well, I consider management a good thing. Thomas and I started on L, changed to U, then a combo of U and L, and for awhile (quite a while) used expired U and L. Then we change to N, and now have changed to Levemir. Thomas will be celebrating his 10th anniversary as a diabetic, this Christmas season. My vet told me that most people get bored of treating diabetes somewhere between the 3rd and 5th year.
Dana
 
The comment your vet made about people "getting bored"after treating their diabetic pet is strange.Maybe he meant to say burnt out.this does happen sometimes when caretakers ignore their own needs if caring for a human or furry family member.We tend to focus on newbies getting over their prelimary feelings of being overwhelmed and needing to get educated.I have never gotten "bored" with my kitties but some days are draining.You get home to find messes the younger cats have made and eight or nine cats fighting for your attention.Ironically my diabetic cat Nomad is the easiest to care for. He patiently waits while I deal with the rest of my motley feline crew. It is never boring in my house. Maybe it would be nice to have a few boring days.... :-)
 
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