Re: 8.4 Lucy PMPS=70 Question about skipping shots...

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LucyCat

LucyCat

Member Since 2013
Lucy didn't eat any of her food last night and ate minimal amounts during the day. For some reason, since we've returned from vacation she has been uninterested in food unless I sit down with her and pet her and then she eats...she is eating right now, in front of me...so what do I do...

Do I still give her the shot or do I skip it??
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! Do I still shoot?

Well, I would be stalling since you've not shot this low before. When you stall, you hold off on feeding. Ordinarily, you'd re-test in 20 - 30 min. I'd retest in 30 min. and let's see what the numbers say.

Can you afford to be off schedule? Do you have strips and HC on hand if needed?
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! Do I still shoot?

Is your shot schedule flexible enough that you can wait a bit (like an hour) and stall? See how much she eats. Maybe her appetite is back today.
I'm going to check out your ss now.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! Do I still shoot?

So I was reading over things today and it seems as though since she isn't below 50 I can still shoot. So I've watched her eat some food and I gave her the normal dose.

Should I be considering reducing the dose?
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! Do I still shoot?

PLEASE be sure to get a +1 and +2 test since you've shot the normal dose. This will give you information on whether or not she's going to give you an interesting day. Will you be home to monitor her, and do you have HC as well as syrup (Karo preferably) just in case it's needed? Not trying to scare you or anything, but with a diabetic kitty, you never know what they have planned for us beans when they give us #s like these. :-D

All in all, she's giving you very lovely #s!!! Congratulations! :-D
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! Do I still shoot?

What do you mean by flexible schedule? Does that mean if I held off and gave the shot at 8 am then I'd give the PM one at 8 pm?

I didn't know about "stalling". I gave her food and gave her the shot. I'll be monitoring closely. The only HC food I have on hand is the IAMS dry food she ate before. Is there a better HC food I should go buy?
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! Do I still shoot?

I have honey and Karo syrup on hand. I will be home today for testing. I will get the +1 and +2 for sure.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! Do I still shoot?

If this was J.D. I would have done what Sienne suggested and held off on feeding and stalled 30 minutes to see if he was rising or not. Since you already fed Lucy, I was suggesting that you see if she is eating well, and then test again in an hour (if your shot schedule allowed for the change in time) and then shoot if she was rising.
Since you already fed and shot the full dose, I would test again in 30 minutes, and then depending upon her test numbers, be ready to test often today. You have supplies, I hope.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! Do I still shoot?

The Iams dry will stay in her system for longer than a wet food would as it contains grains and will result in much higher #s. You don't want to give a diabetic kitty anything with grain in it. Do you have any syrup to rub on her gums? Syrup is an instant pick up because it contains sugar, but it only lasts for a short time.

I'm searching for the lists that have good high carb wet food on it. Please give me a moment, and I'll give you them in my next post.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! Do I still shoot?

LucyCat said:
I have honey and Karo syrup on hand. I will be home today for testing. I will get the +1 and +2 for sure.
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You can make HC food if you need it by adding a drop or two of karo to her regular LC food. I would stay away from the dry, unless she absolutely refuses to eat.
Once this cycle is over, I would go buy some HC wet food and keep it next to your karo syrup. Or, if you have someone who can run out and buy some now that would be good too.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! Do I still shoot?

Here's the info on handling low pre-shots.

Most people are very nervous about shooting this low the first time. If you're willing to shoot, that's fine. You will need to be closely monitoring Lucy's numbers in order to have a handle on the data. That means getting at least a +1 and +2 (and by at least I mean you may even want to test every 30 min.).

We ask that you have a "hypo" kit. This means gravy-based, high carb, canned food. This would be canned food that's over 15% carb. Dry food takes too long to get into a cat's system and too long to leave. If you don't have HC canned food, you can add a few drops of corn syrup (Karo), maple syrup, honey, etc. to Lucy's usual LC food. (Here's the info on handling low numbers.)

And yes, by flexible schedule it means whether you can shoot 12-hours from whenever you shoot this morning.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! Do I still shoot?

Ok, here are the links to the old and new canned foods.

http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodOld.html

Here is some information on canned foods as opposed to grain foods. This is good reading and is written by Dr. Lisa Pierson, who is a vet:

http://www.catinfo.org/?link=cannedfoods

I hope that you don't get too overwhelmed with all the information there. Take your time, and you may find that you'll be trying a few of them, or you may also find that not just 1, but perhaps 2 or 3 foods given each day may work, too. Who knows. It's all trial and error. Good luck!
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! Do I still shoot?

Yes HC is over 15%

To make it really easy - just buy Fancy Feast - Gravy Lovers - cans

Those are all high carb and come with extra gravy to make spooning it out even easier. Be sure to label them high carb and keep it separate from her regular food.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! Do I still shoot?

Yes. Lantus onset has not started. In other words, the insulin hasn't kicked in yet. The +1 number usually reflects a food spike.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! Do I still shoot?

It takes 2 hours for Lantus to start kicking in just like what Sienne mentioned. Getting a +2 test is just as important as getting the +1. You'll get the hang of it in due time. You're doing an awesome job! :-D
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! Do I still shoot?

Just to tweek Angela's post, onset, just like nadir, can differ for every cat. Some cats have earlier onset than others.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! +1=87, +2=81

Please get a +3 and let us know where she's at.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! Should I reduce dose?

Her +3 was 46 so I bought some gravy lovers fancy feast. I gave her a tiny bit of Karo and about a table spoon of the FF. I'm testing her again soon.

I'm just wondering what I'm supposed to do in the future, should this happen again. I go back to work on Tuesday and I do not have the option of staying home and testing her. I am a teacher so I can't come home for lunch either. I don't get home until around 4 pm.

1. If she tests below 50 do I skip the AM shot?
2. If she tests low do I give a lower dose?
3. Are you allowed to skip shots in the AM and then give the full/normal does in the PM?
4. What do people do when they have to work and cannot test?
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! +1=87, +2=81

1. If she tests below 50 do I skip the AM shot?
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If she is below 50 at any time (whether at PS or not), I would feed her as we always say "Feed The Forties". If it happens to be at PS time, then you would need to stall and test again, and see if she will come up enough to be comfortable for you to give her a shot. I would wait an hour or more before giving her a shot in this case, as it could take that long for the food spike from the "Feeding The Forties" to wear off.

Can you adjust your shot times so that you can shoot earlier and then have more stall room, or get more tests in before your leave for the day?

2. If she tests low do I give a lower dose?
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You could give a temporarily reduced dose, what we call a BCS dose.
Have you read the stickys that Sienne provided you above? You might want to print them out, so that you can find them easiliy early in the morning or when you need to make a decision and no one is around to help you.

3. Are you allowed to skip shots in the AM and then give the full/normal does in the PM?
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Of course. You hold the syringe, and you need to keep your cat safe. I again refer to the stickys to help you to make your decision.
If you do skip a shot entirely, you can then (if you want to), adjust your shot schedule easily as the next shot would normally be at +24, but you can shoot at +23 as an example, as long as you can shoot 12 hours after that, etc.

4. What do people do when they have to work and cannot test?
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Gathering data, like you are doing will help you to make decisions for times like when you have to be gone all day.

I highly recommend getting a +11, so then when you compare the +11 to the PS test, you can tell whether she's surfing or rising or dropping. And it gives you that extra hour to think about what you're going to do and to post the number and your concerns and get help from the board.

I try to get a +11 on workdays, and if I feel uncomfortable I know I can leave extra food out for J.D. that day, or I can leave out higher carb food (like MC) for him to munch on during the day.
Some people have neighbors or friends or family that can stop by and check on their cat.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! +1=87, +2=81

I can't get up earlier as I need sleep. I breastfeed my baby and am already totally sleep deprived. I already will be getting up to feed, pump and get myself ready for the day. Plus I have to leave early to take him to daycare and then get to work.

I'm starting to feel like I am not cut out for this. I don't know if I can meet Lucy's needs...

I don't have friends or family that can check on Lucy.

No one has answered my question about reducing her dose.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! +1=87, +2=81

I don't have anyone who can help me either, so we do the best we can. You will be fine. Keep on doing what you are doing. We will help you to figure things out. Just keep posting when you have time.

The 46 earns Lucy a dose reduction. Congratulations! :-D
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! +1=87, +2=81

Hello, just wanted to stop in and say hi. I'm in Omaha...if only it were a little closer, I'd come check on your kitty. I think you're doing a great job with this, and Lucy's SS is looking really good. I'm fairly new to this too, and have been sleep deprived even without a baby, so I can't imagine how you feel! Just hang in there...you're doing good. Let me know if you need anything.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55!! +1=87, +2=81

Thanks Melissa...with work starting back up (i'm a teacher) I am feeling incredibly stressed about this. I didn't forsee my last day of summer being attached to Lucy and testing every hour. It would maybe help if I felt an ounce of support from my husband but of course he thinks it's ridiculous that I'm doing all of this.

Anytime something changes with Lucy I basically have an anxiety attack.

I guess I'll be reducing her PM dose to 2.25
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55 What do you do about low appetite?

Lucy has not been interested in food...other than the gravy lovers FF I gave to her today due to low numbers...what do people do about that because I feel like the reason her numbers are dipping so low is because she basically isn't eating.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55 What do you do about low appetite?

How is she acting? Is she playing and pooping and peeing and preening and purring (the 5 Ps)?
Does she seem interested in eating and then walk away from it?
How are her teeth?
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55 What do you do about low appetite?

She is acting totally normal. In fact, my other cat that is not diabetic is also not eating as much as normal...do you think it's because we just got back from being away for a week? The cat sitter said they ate really well while we were gone.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55 What do you do about low appetite?

I'm glad she's acting normal.

It could be the heat, or that they are just relaxed now since you are home again where you belong :cool: Also, diabetic cats usually eat a lot more when in higher numbers because they can't get all the nutrition from the food when their insulin is lacking, so she may eat less when her numbers are in the healthy range as her body can better use the food she is eating.

Does she turn her head funny when she eats like her teeth hurt? How is her weight?

I would try to think about what your no shoot number will be when you have to be away all day. That number may change as you get more experience along the way. Like for example, you may say that you won't shoot if she's below 125 or 100 and you have to leave her alone all day.

I know what you mean about your DH. My DBF still says I'm torturing J.D. sometimes when I'm testing him :?
Be patient with your DH, maybe he'll come around.

I think you'll do fine. Just hang with it.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55 What do you do about low appetite?

Hi Becky,

First I want to say you are doing an AMAZING job! I know when things start getting heiary & your kitty is getting into healing ranges for the first times (like my Tigger is), it's really easy to feel overwhelmed. Plus, with a new baby & going back to work, & DH that doesn't understand your commitment to your fur baby, you have an overflowing plate! :YMHUG:

Still, in the midst of all that, you're doing an incredible job! Take deep breath & one day at a time. You do what you can, when you can & that's alot. Lucy's doing very well, too at this point.

If she's not as interested in food, is it a new canned food? Perhaps she doesn't like the consistency, smell, or its just not what she's used to. There are some LC Fancy Feast varieties that most cats like. My cats like the Wellness Pate varieties, and the Weruva (careful some are MC & some LC - paw lickin chickin is LC).

You mentioned you were on vacation & since your return she only eats if you're with her. Could it be she got insecure while you were gone & she's afraid you're going to leave her?

I don't know how often you're up with the baby at night - is there a way to dove-tail testing / feeding Lucy with feeding the baby so you're schedule is less interrupted?

Again, you are doing so well, lean on us for support; it gets better, & Lucy's got a recent diagnosis, which is better for her odds of remission, but there are some tough patches along that healing journey.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55 What do you do about low appetite?

I'm not going to weigh in on doses at this point...Too much information at one time can be overwhelming, but anytime Lucy drops below 50, you reduce by .25 units at the next shot time.


As for going back to work, have you looked into an auto-feeder? If you can get one, you can spend these last days before going back to work getting it set up and making sure it works, and then you'd at least know that Lucy is getting little bits of food during the day when you're not there.

I've seen several people who use them who also make "cat-cicles" by mixing some water with some regular LC food, putting it into an ice tray and freezing it. It helps keeps the food fresh since it has to thaw through the day, as well as any time you can get extra water into Lucy, the better it'll be for her kidneys.


I wish only the best of luck to you and Lucy! I know teaching is a demanding profession, and to be a new mom on top of that adds even more pressure!! Teachers are the future of our children and aren't appreciated as much as they should be!!
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55 What do you do about low appetite?

I'm really relying a lot on what other people tell me to do...like I would really have no idea what a good "no shoot" number would be.

Do you think since I'm starting work so soon that I should just say 120?
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55 What do you do about low appetite?

Becky....just trying to help think of something that would work for you, Lucy and your precious baby! Is there anyway you could do your AMPS test first thing when you get up in the morning? I'm just thinking maybe by the time you get the baby fed, do your pumping, get dressed and ready for work, that might give you an hour in the morning to decide what to do. (and stall if you needed to)

I'm not sure what number I'd recommend as a "no shot" number. I'm not experienced enough to feel real comfortable doing that, but I know most of us use 150 here until we know a lot more about how our kitties react to the Lantus. The hope is to eventually shoot pretty much any number (50 or above) but it's too soon in your journey to try to shoot that low..especially since you're not going to be available to test later in the day.

If you can give us an idea of what your "normal" schedule is (or what you hope it is anyway), maybe we can put our heads together and figure something out that'll work for everyone!

Hoping your DH comes around and is at least willing to support you, if not encourage you too. Maybe a quiet heart to heart to make sure he understands that Lucy is your "baby" too and you really need his support...even if he doesn't necessarily agree with it
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55 What do you do about low appetite?

Becky --

You really are doing a great job! The trick is trying to fit shot times into your schedule. Feline diabetes needn't become your life. Most of us tend to look at our kitties like they are our kids. The commitment is the same except you don't have to pay for college.

Chris' suggestion is worth considering with respect to your AM shot time. Will that work in light of when you get home in the afternoon? One other thought is if you're getting up during the night to breastfeed. You might not need to shoot if it's early but could you grab a test? Dyana's point was to get a test late in the PM cycle so you have a reference for your AMPS. That way you know if you're seeing a dropping number.

Does your DH leave the house at the same time you do or later? Is there someone in the house who will be taking care of the baby? While others may not test, they can certainly leave food out if you're concerned about Lucy's numbers.

One observation I'd make is that in many ways, it's easier when a cat is sitting in pink, yellow or blue numbers. Once you start to see numbers in the greens, it does become more challenging even though that's exactly what this process is all about. It can be nerve wracking because all of a sudden, once you returned from vacation, Lucy changed the rules on you.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55 What do you do about low appetite?

DCIN donates our testing supplies and I'm not getting more until Thursday so I have to conserve them. I am only going to test for preshots and before bed unless she is low and requires more testing.

This is what I concluded from today's discussion:

-When I go back to work I will test her preshot number and only shoot if it's above 150.

-If her preshot number is below 150 I will leave for work without shooting.

-I will be gone from 7am to 4pm so during that time I will leave a can of food out. (When we were on vacation and the sitter only came twice a day for shooting, she left a full can out at 7 am and half a can at 7 pm and that worked out perfectly. I will try the cat sicles too.

-I understand testing a lot but for me it kind of makes me go crazy...like high anxiety. I will test a lot if needed but otherwise I'm sticking to the 3 tests a day.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy AMPS=55 What do you do about low appetite?

Hi Becky, just stopped in to give you some moral support. You're doing such a great job! I know those green numbers can be scary. I'm a newbie and have been going through this pretty much on my own except for this wonderful forum. My vet discouraged me, my DH thought I was crazy. But the folks on this board gave me the information I needed and the guidance and support to help me get Sammy to where she is today.

Sammy was in the 600/500 just two months ago. Now she's on an OTJ trial! (i.e. trial period with no insulin). So it's possible! I never even dreamed two months ago that this could happen. DH has slowly come around, and yesterday said the sweetest thing to me about how he was proud of what I 've done for Sammy.

So hang in there! This is the toughest part of the journey. It will get harder before it gets easier, but you can do it! You'll soon get used to those lovely blues and greens, you'll study her spreadsheet and get a feeling for her patterns, you'll learn when you need to test and when/how much to feed. When you feel overwhelmed, come to this board to find the support you need. We've all been there and know how you're feeling.

The auto feeder seems like a great idea. Food is your friend and will help keep Lucy safe.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy PMPS=70 So I didn't shoot...is that right?

Lucy tested at a 70 for her PMPS. Because I decided today that if she is under 150 I'm not going to give her her shot, I have not.

I'm wondering if in the AM her PS is over 150, is it safe to administer the full dose? I'm lowering it to 2.25.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy PMPS=70 So I didn't shoot...is that right?

I think it's good you didn't shoot the 70 tonight. You don't have much data on shooting these green numbers, and I'm sure you don't want to be up all night.

As far as tomorrow, hopefully someone with more experience can advise. I'm new too, so just don't know what to tell you. I know when I've been worried about leaving Ebby after giving a shot, people have suggested to leave MC food out. I'd do whatever makes you most comfortable... You don't want to be worrying all day on your first day back.
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy PMPS=70 So I didn't shoot...is that right?

When you skip a shot do you still give the normal dose the next time?
 
Re: 8.4 Lucy PMPS=70 So I didn't shoot...is that right?

LucyCat said:
When you skip a shot do you still give the normal dose the next time?
Click to expand...

Yes, if the number is high enough to shoot.
 
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