Re: 06/24/11 Zener's AMPS 327; +3 230; +6.5 92

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Anne & Zener GA

Member Since 2011
Today is Zener's second day on the new dose of 1.5u Lantus BID. His AMPS was down from his PMPS. I did not take any values during the night as I was pretty much on empty. Just did his +3 BG and it really dropped to 230. Will do +6, +9 and PMPS but getting a little worried about PM injection if BG values continue to decrease through the day. His values are on his spreadsheet. Any preliminary advice would help me be a little less anxious. Thanks!

Zener's Condo 6/23/11
 
Re: 06/24/11 Zener's AMPS 327; +3 230

i'm glad you were able to get some sleep last night!

unfortunately, we can't really make suggestions for tonight until we see how the day goes. if the numbers do continue dropping throughout the day i would get a +11. those +10s or +11s are really helpful. they give us an idea of the rate of the drop (or rise) when we see the PM preshot number.

don't worry, ok? post your numbers as you get them. there are several of us who are keeping an eye on what zener is doing. :mrgreen:
what time is pmps and what time zone are you in?
 
Re: 06/24/11 Zener's AMPS 327; +3 230

Jill & Alex said:
i'm glad you were able to get some sleep last night!

Thanks, it was a quiet night with Zener on the bed, so easy to check on him!

Thanks for the reassurance. I will get +6, +9 and +11 and post after each. I am on MST. In AZ no DST, so my time is the same as PDT, ie Los Angeles time. It can be very confusing. His PMPS is 8 pm MST (8 pm on the west coast), 11 pm on the east coast.

His appetite is low today, tried the buffet and parmesan cheese. He ate about an ounce of wet food this morning, and a few Halo freeze dried chicken pieces after his +3 BG test.

No increase in urination or drinking despite the increase in BG values.

Thanks to all for keeping an eye on us, it is a great relief! cat_pet_icon
 
Re: 06/24/11 Zener's AMPS 327; +3 230

thanks for the clarification on time. my mom's in tucson. since she doesn't adhere to DST, i find myself trying to remember if she's one or two hours behind us depending on the time of year. sounds like the goal today is to get zener to eat. you may have to resort to baby food, finger or syringe (needle-less) feeding if necessary. sometimes sprinkling crushed dry food/treats on top of wet food will interest kitties. low-sodium tuna water can be poured on top of wet food. i know a lot of kitties like that!
 
Re: 06/24/11 Zener's AMPS 327; +3 230

Thanks! I was able to finger feed him a little and get him going some. I'm off to work for a few hours, and will tackle it again when I get home. Poor guy.
 
Just got home from work, so a little late getting the exact +6, was +6.5 and BG was down to 92! Zener seems fine, and a little perturbed I disturbed him from his nap to mess with his ear. He still has not eaten much, about an oz of wet food. Just sniffs and not interested. I tried quite a few of the suggestions for getting him to eat, but no luck so far.
 
hi anne. i'm walking out the door so i apologize in advance for being brief...
please retest at +7. since zener is a CH kitty, let's try to keep him above 80 or 90. if the +7 is lower please try to get some food into him. you'll also want to stay on top of the numbers by retesting often. if you see a considerable drop, don't be afraid to bump him up by rubbing a little karo on his gums. keep in mind, the effects of karo wears off faster than food will.

if he continues to drop, post for assistance. you can put the word "help" in the subject line to attract more eyes.
i'll check back here as soon as i get home... should be in about 2 hours.
 
anne --- i turned around and came back because i remembered you're using an alphatrak meter.
i'd try getting him bumped up over 100. it would be ideal to have him over 110...
 
Re: 06/24/11 Zener's AMPS 327; +3 230; +6.5 92; +7.5 107

Gosh, thanks for turning around and coming back! I just tested again, more like +7.5 and BG was 107. I got him to eat a few semi-soft treats and a few small bites of wet food with hand feeding. He does not appear symptomatic. Though it's a bit hard to tell with his usual movements and it's quite warm today so both kitties are sleeping most of the afternoon.
 
that's a good number for +7.5.

FYI, I believe one reason Jill suggested that you keep Zener a little higher is because we realize it might be harder to recognize hypo symptoms in him, if he tremors sometimes anyway. I wouldn't expect him to be symptomatic at this range. It doesn't hurt to play it safe, especially while we are all learning the best way to treat Zener's diabetes along with his CH. You can feed him a bit more wet food if you want, to try to bump him up a tad higher.
 
Thank you for the support! After I got the 107 BG, I gave him a few semi soft treats since he was not all that interested in his wet food. I also was able to hand feed him a few bites of tuna. I do have cypro, an appetite stimulant, and have used before with good luck, do you think I should give him one now or wait? I'm going to test his BG again at +9 or should I do it before then?
 
How about doing the next test at +8.5? That will be an hour after the last test.

I don't think you need to give cypro, unless you think so. He is in a very safe range, we're just being super cautious.
 
Will do, right now he is hiding under his favorite chair so I'll wait until +8.5 to drag him out, if tempting him with a little food doesn't do it. Thanks for calming me about his range and I am good with being super cautious!
 
Re: 06/24/11 Zener's AMPS 327; +3 230; +6.5 92; +8.5 140

Tested BG again at 8.5 and on the way up at 140. I will test again at +10 and/or +11 and at PMPS. Feeling a little bit worried about dose this evening. :?
 
he's on the rise now, so I think he will be ok to shoot tonight. Post your numbers, though, so we can help you watch him.
 
Re: 06/24/11 Zener's AMPS 327; +3 230; +6.5 92; +10 165

Okey dokey, seems to be going up steady, now at 165 at +10 and he is eating his wet food!
 
Re: 06/24/11 Zener's AMPS 327;+3 230;+6.5 92

Now at +11 BG is 192, and he is eating his wet food better. Will do PMPS and then injection. But not sure if I should stay the same on his dose?
 
considering we'd like to see nadirs in the 110 - 120 range using the alphatrak meter, how about reducing the dose to 1.25u bid?
he's already dipped below the range we'd like to see him in and he's only had 3 cycles at 1.5 units.

like libby said earlier... we're being a little cautious until we're learning the best way to treat his diabetes along with CH.
what do you think?
 
Hi Jill, thanks so much for all your help! Yes, I am good with trying 1.25u. I'll read up again on exactly how to measure that. I'm using u100 syringes with .5 and 1.0 lines and I remember seeing on a sticky that I have downloaded and printed how to measure other doses. I agree completely with being conservative as I read that being high is better than being too low, and he is quite hard to tell about sometimes because of his normal, but mild, CH movements.

I'll be getting his PMPS at 8 pm MST and will post that. How often should I check his values during the night? I can certainly do one at +3 and could get up at another time to check if you think it would be best. Thanks so much!
 
1.25u is half-way between the 1u line and the 1.5u line. you'll have to eyeball it. i use a magnifying glass, but your eyesight is probably better than mine.

as far as testing tonight...
let's see what the pmps number is before committing to testing times.

Here's an example of a typical curve:
+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number. <------- if this number is lower than the preshot number, you'll want to be on the look out for some possible action.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number.
 
OK, thanks for that! I'm off to get the guy and do his BG now. Shall I wait for you to see that before I do the injection or go ahead with the 1.25u?
 
just go ahead and shoot 1.25u tonight UNLESS the pmps number has dropped from the last reading. if the number is lower than that 192, post it before shooting.
 
axwphart said:
The PMPS went down to 186.
no big deal. go ahead and shoot the new 1.25u dose. 186 and 192 are virtually the same number when you consider meter variance.

what you're seeing is commonly called "the lantus dip". it's a little dip at the end of a cycle when you've already seen a discernible nadir.
i would get a +2 tonight and then go from there.
 
Ah, that's interesting about the dip. I've seen that with him before. OK, off to shoot 1.25, will post +2 values later. Thanks again!
 
give him a little time and try again.
you'll want to get some food into him before onset (usually around +2) even if you have to finger feed.
 
Will do. I was pretty worried about him not eating so just gave him 1/2 cypro tablet. That usually kicks in about an hour after giving, so I think I will be able to get him to eat by +2.
 
he'll probably eat then! one of the nice things about lantus is having a couple hours to get food on board.
you always want to make sure he eats so his numbers don't drop too fast...
 
Thanks for that. I was trying to get by without the cypro. We started using it a month or so ago when his weight dropped down from about 14.7 lbs to 13.1 lbs - when on Humulin N. Now trying to maintain his weight around 13.8 to 13.10. I feel like a "food pusher". He is a much better evening eater than during the day, but at least I've been able to get him on wet food almost exclusively. It is such a process!
 
oh good. my post is there! i wasn't sure if it posted because my internet has been going in and out.
if i suddenly *poof*... you'll know why.
 
Beautiful cycle for Zener today with that lovely green thrown in!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: You're in great hands with Jill... just wanted to pop in with a hello and good night!!!
 
Wow, I thought you were magic and now I know you are - you have "poof" powers! Zener just ate a little bit, so the cypro is starting to kick in. I will be away from my computer in about 20 minutes for about a half hour. Will be back in time to do his +2 and encourage a bit more eating before then! :RAHCAT
 
Christie & Willie said:
Beautiful cycle for Zener today with that lovely green thrown in!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: You're in great hands with Jill... just wanted to pop in with a hello and good night!!!

Thanks so much for all your support!
 
Help Re: 06/24/11 Zener's PMPS 186; +2 212

The cypro did its duty and Zener has been eating pretty well since the 1.25 u shot two hours ago. Just posted his +2 BG. Should I try to do another during the night?
 
Help Re: 06/24/11 Zener's PMPS 186; +2 212: +4 350

The appetite stimulant kicked in and he is eating like he hasn't all day. Probably the reason his BG is higher at +4. I'm not so worried about his BG values getting too low during the night, so I'm off to bed. Should I stick with the 1.25 u tomorrow AM? Thanks for all the help!
 
Re: Help Re: 06/24/11 Zener's PMPS 186; +2 212: +4 350

axwphart said:
The appetite stimulant kicked in and he is eating like he hasn't all day. Probably the reason his BG is higher at +4. I'm not so worried about his BG values getting too low during the night, so I'm off to bed. Should I stick with the 1.25 u tomorrow AM? Thanks for all the help!
yes, stick with 1.25u in the morning.
happy to hear he's eating! :-D
 
Good morning Anne.

Great job of testing last night. What you're SS is showing is a bounce. You (and the rest of us) liked those greens and blues but they scared Zener's liver! When that happens, the liver releases a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones and it spikes the numbers up. Zener hasn't spent much time in normal BG ranges so his liver has 'forgotten' what the normal range is and reacts to those good numbers like it's a crisis. The more time that Zener spends in better numbers, the more his liver will stop overreacting.

Just a suggestion that will be helpful for those of us who are following Zener. If you notice, the subject line in this post is the same as what's visible on the Board and is the same as in your first post in this thread (we call the thread a condo). In order for the numbers you posted showing Zener's PM values to be visible, you need to edit the subject line in your first post. That is the only subject line that everyone can see unless they open your condo. If we're trying to make sure Zener is safe and see if you need help, it's best to change what everyone can see. Also, in order to move your condo to the top of the queue and for it to not get buried, you need to add a new post.

Remember to link your new condo for Saturday to this post. (Copy the "http" line from the top of your browser, click on the URL button, and paste the location info between the brackets. If you've already figured out how to do this, like in your signature line, even better.)
 
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